Crispy™ Controversial opinions about RPGs that you know deep down are true.

[hivemind]

criiiinge

 

[Sigourn]

I think a good setting is infinitely better than a good story, but a lot of times devs focus on the story, completely disregarding the setting. My favorite settings (Arcanum, Fallout, Planescape: Torment) didn't have particularly good stories, IMO.
Good moment to moment gameplay triumphs choice & consequence in quests. Choice & consequence in quests usually means "choice", with little consequence. Even New Vegas suffers from this: the most obvious example of C&C is killing a faction's members and having that entire faction turn on you. You take Goodsprings for the Powder Gangers, but in practice this means that a town is suddenly dead and not much more than that. Powder Gangers roam Goodsprings, but they don't offer services, you don't unlock new quests at Goodsprings, and no other town genuinely changes to reflect this.

 

[Dorateen]

First person, party-based dungeon crawlers are still representative of the best of the computer role-playing game hobby, and the closest approximation to the pen and paper experience.

Those can be quite good, and I especially like when they make drawing a correct map part of the challenge. But ultimately they are rather limited on the problem solving aspect. They might have a a few puzzles in the, but those almost always don't even use your character's abilities. Instead they usually pad out with a whole lot of combat.

Because of that, I think games like Fallout, or even Zork, might be more representative of a P&P game.

Old school dungeon crawlers were defined by their problem solving approaches. Not only map making, but also puzzles and riddles and requiring players to figure things out for themselves, without developer hand holding. You don't find the type of navigation obstacles in modern cRPG design that the classics had to create challenging gameplay.

 

[smaug]

Dorateen Alex doesn’t see non dialogue and story as role playing.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

First person, party-based dungeon crawlers are still representative of the best of the computer role-playing game hobby, and the closest approximation to the pen and paper experience.

Those can be quite good, and I especially like when they make drawing a correct map part of the challenge. But ultimately they are rather limited on the problem solving aspect. They might have a a few puzzles in the, but those almost always don't even use your character's abilities. Instead they usually pad out with a whole lot of combat.

Because of that, I think games like Fallout, or even Zork, might be more representative of a P&P game.

Old school dungeon crawlers were defined by their problem solving approaches. Not only map making, but also puzzles and riddles and requiring players to figure things out for themselves, without developer hand holding. You don't find the type of navigation obstacles in modern cRPG design that the classics had to create challenging gameplay.

You seem to have confused this site with puzzlecodex

 

[Delterius]

academagia was the best rpg this site ever reviewed

 

[Dorateen]

First person, party-based dungeon crawlers are still representative of the best of the computer role-playing game hobby, and the closest approximation to the pen and paper experience.

Those can be quite good, and I especially like when they make drawing a correct map part of the challenge. But ultimately they are rather limited on the problem solving aspect. They might have a a few puzzles in the, but those almost always don't even use your character's abilities. Instead they usually pad out with a whole lot of combat.

Because of that, I think games like Fallout, or even Zork, might be more representative of a P&P game.

Old school dungeon crawlers were defined by their problem solving approaches. Not only map making, but also puzzles and riddles and requiring players to figure things out for themselves, without developer hand holding. You don't find the type of navigation obstacles in modern cRPG design that the classics had to create challenging gameplay.

You seem to have confused this site with puzzlecodex

Puzzles were often part of Gary Gygax's dungeon designs. You must be an historical ignoramus about the roots of the role-playing game hobby.

 

[Delterius]

First person, party-based dungeon crawlers are still representative of the best of the computer role-playing game hobby, and the closest approximation to the pen and paper experience.

Those can be quite good, and I especially like when they make drawing a correct map part of the challenge. But ultimately they are rather limited on the problem solving aspect. They might have a a few puzzles in the, but those almost always don't even use your character's abilities. Instead they usually pad out with a whole lot of combat.

Because of that, I think games like Fallout, or even Zork, might be more representative of a P&P game.

Old school dungeon crawlers were defined by their problem solving approaches. Not only map making, but also puzzles and riddles and requiring players to figure things out for themselves, without developer hand holding. You don't find the type of navigation obstacles in modern cRPG design that the classics had to create challenging gameplay.

You seem to have confused this site with puzzlecodex

Puzzles were often part of Gary Gygax's dungeon designs. You must be an historical ignoramus about the roots of the role-playing game hobby.

wow burned

 

[Cryomancer]

Another unpopular opinion. Puzzles are annoying, immersion breaking and most of time makes no sense.

Here is the god slayer capable to throwing meteors at enemies and shaping the reality with an wish spell aside from an barbarian capable to cutting steel like paper with his ginormous axe and .... Both are pressing random levers to open an wooden door that have infinite more durability than an ancient dragon. This is silly. Few RPG's have puzzles that make sense. For eg, on beholder's cave on nwn1 - hotu - chap 2 for(but on chap 3, the game is fulfilled with bad puzzles to reach mephistopheles true name "owner" and note. Your "demon slayer" can't just kill an mimic, he needs to lure the mimic into an trap instead of using al spell that produces the same effect). Grimoire heralds of the winged exemplar would be much better IMO if i don't need to combine A + B then press C to get D, then use D with E to open F<...>

 

[Delterius]

Both are pressing random levers to open an wooden door

its enchanted

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Both are pressing random levers to open an wooden door

its enchanted

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dispelMagic.htm

 

[Delterius]

Both are pressing random levers to open an wooden door

its enchanted

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dispelMagic.htm

too bad no one ever tries it

 

[turkishronin]

PST should've been made as a visual novel

 

[PrettyDeadman]

CRPGs are for brainlets who don't have mental capacity to play grand strategy games.

 

[Lilura]

The four pillars of design required for greatness in the genre are reactivity, isometric perspective, full party control and turn-based tactical combat.

Jagged Alliance 2 utterly destroys every single RPG in these respects.

Thus, Jagged Alliance 2 is the greatest RPG ever.

Not only that, but it has the best strategy component ever, the best UI ever and the most accurate pathfinding ever.

Jagged Alliance 2 was 20 years ahead of its time.

There is a reason most devs don't acknowledge the greatness of Jagged Alliance 2: it's because it makes them look bad.

 

[Alex]

Dorateen Alex doesn’t see non dialogue and story as role playing.

Uh, sorry, but what?

Old school dungeon crawlers were defined by their problem solving approaches. Not only map making, but also puzzles and riddles and requiring players to figure things out for themselves, without developer hand holding. You don't find the type of navigation obstacles in modern cRPG design that the classics had to create challenging gameplay.

I will admit it might be the issue that I simply haven't played the games with the best puzzles in the genre. But in my experience, the puzzles in this type of game are of a much more limited sort. Stuff like finding levers, hidden secret buttons, understanding how levers affect each other, etc. Don't get me wrong, this can be a whole lot of fun! But it fall short of the stuff you might have even in a simple module like the B1: In Search of the Unknown. I think something like the old example of Fallout where

Fallout Puzzle

uou can blow up the entrance of the radscorpion cave with the right character.

approaches how problem solving in a P&P game work better than anything I remember seeing in a pure dungeon crawler.

To be fair, even this approach is rather weak; you are always forced to use a solution thought up by some developer. This is intrinsically different from a P&P game where you can come up with your own solution to problems and the GM arbitrates how well it goes. But that is a problem inherent to computer games.

 

[commie]

RPGs are casual and require no thinking.

Is that why you keep begging for them?

 

[Rules Lawyer]

Another unpopular opinion. Puzzles are annoying, immersion breaking and most of time makes no sense.

Here is the god slayer capable to throwing meteors at enemies and shaping the reality with an wish spell aside from an barbarian capable to cutting steel like paper with his ginormous axe and .... Both are pressing random levers to open an wooden door that have infinite more durability than an ancient dragon. This is silly. Few RPG's have puzzles that make sense. For eg, on beholder's cave on nwn1 - hotu - chap 2 for(but on chap 3, the game is fulfilled with bad puzzles to reach mephistopheles true name "owner" and note. Your "demon slayer" can't just kill an mimic, he needs to lure the mimic into an trap instead of using al spell that produces the same effect). Grimoire heralds of the winged exemplar would be much better IMO if i don't need to combine A + B then press C to get D, then use D with E to open F<...>

i couldn't agree more about puzzles. having multiple different ways of completing quests, having true choice in dialog options and outcomes to allow you to play your character different ways, is far more important to the ROLE part of role-playing than solving fucking puzzles. fuck puzzles. i got tired of that shit playing sierra games on my 386 back in the day.

 

[Lilura]

The best puzzles are the TACTICAL ones. I'd rather figure out how to defeat combat encounters than fetch a blue gem from there, put it in a socket over there, and then pull a lever or step on a pressure plate. That shit is BORING.

 

[Fairfax]

Tabletop RPGs >>>>>>>>>> CRPGs

This is far from controversial to anyone who's played enough of both.

 

[turkishronin]

play grand strategy games.

They are not even games

 

[Delterius]

play grand strategy games.

They are not even games

how dare you

 

[Rules Lawyer]

The best puzzles are the TACTICAL ones. I'd rather figure out how to defeat combat encounters than fetch a blue gem from there, put it in a socket over there, and then pull a lever or step on a pressure plate. That shit is BORING.

winner winner chicken dinner

 

[Strange Fellow]

What RPGs even feature lever puzzles? Legend of Grimrock? Might and Magic? It's certainly not what comes to my mind when I think of puzzles in RPGs.

In before Myst is an RPG because you play a role.

 

[hivemind]

larian puzzles you by making you question why the fck you play their garbage shit agmes