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Crafting sucks in 99% of cases

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by JarlFrank, Jan 16, 2022.

  1. The Vanished One Prophet

    The Vanished One
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    The only games where I've ever enjoyed crafting are those where I can automate it, such as Factorio and Satisfactory. I hate having to collect junk in an RPG.
     
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  2. curds Prophet

    curds
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    Crafting was good in The Witcher 1.

    Everybody already knows about the great alchemy system, but there was also only like three sets of armour in the game, and the best one required you to collect three or four components that took you on little mini-quests to find, and then a smith made you this awesome armour. Was very satisfying.
     
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  3. Fowyr Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Vatnik

    Fowyr
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    Unreal World and CDDA have great crafting systems. Especially CDDA, it autistically realistic in most of recipes, even in the making of chemicals. Dunno how long ago, they cut recipe for reloaded .223 FMJ rounds that called for spent .22LR casings, because some retarded fuck never heard about .223 bullet swagging.
    [​IMG]
    Good crafting system (if we do not talk about magic settings) is the realistic one, and too few people have enough knowledge to make such a system.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2022
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  4. HumanTotemPole Augur

    HumanTotemPole
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    Hard agree with OP. The few good systems are the exceptions that prove the rule. Up there with random standard item stats (ala TW3) and randomised enemy/item elemental traits as a pet hate of mine.
     
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  5. NerevarineKing Learned

    NerevarineKing
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    I liked the crafting system in Underrail. There was a ton of variety and depth.
     
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  6. toro Arcane

    toro
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    This.

    And crafting in Evil Islands.

    When crafting ingredients are linked to exploration and quality instead of quantity then crafting becomes fun.
     
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  7. Ranselknulf Arcane Patron

    Ranselknulf
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    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In
    The problem with most crafting systems is the stuff you craft is absolutely worthless.

    Or, in the few other cases, the crafted stuff is too good and people feel compelled to grind out shit for hours to craft their "I Win" potions of damage or instant healing.

    Very few crafting systems strike the right balance.

    It's either completely worthless and ignored content, or the crafted stuff is used to trivialize game content that people are too lazy or inept to defeat normally.

    Then again, most games developed are a cash grab anyways, so you can't expect them to put any thought into how the mechanics of a particular system, which in this case is crafting, affects the overall atmosphere or "fun" of a game.

    Just look at the pretty pictures and read the long list of "complex" mechanics in a game, then buy it and consoom.
     
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  8. KateMicucci Magister

    KateMicucci
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    Crafting is often too useful. Crafting ends up replacing the role of in-game stores because you can craft things the store doesn't sell, and it ends up just being easier.
     
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  9. Kleptocratic debt serf Augur Patron

    Kleptocratic debt serf
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    While I do agree for the most part, I feel crafting was decent in Arcanum, Fallout New Vegas (in particular ammo reloading) and Underrail.

    I also don't mind where you find bits of a broken/ancient weapon or armor after some badass encounter, then have to find the right master weapon smith or armorer to repair/restore the piece.
     
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  10. Gradenmayer Learned

    Gradenmayer
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    Bro, it's so retarded in most games as well.
    You are playing supposedly a fucking Inquisitor or a samurai of a big-dick clan, yet you are running around like a clown mining shit and collecting grass, instead of dropping a gold coin to some peasant to do it for you. Annoying as shit.

    The only good crafting system was alchemy in Witcher 1.
     
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  11. FriendlyMerchant Arbiter

    FriendlyMerchant
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    I like the Age of Decadence crafting system. I just wish it was a little more complex with its options.
     
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  12. VonHoffenHeimer Educated

    VonHoffenHeimer
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    I must be playing the wrong games
     
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  13. JackOfOwls Prophet

    JackOfOwls
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    I would only use crafting in any game that makes it a well-thought out gameplay element where you can only get the best weapons/items if you make them yourself, and perhaps center that idea around special or more difficult/meaningful quests. I'm very intrigued by the idea of crafting in games but it seems over the last few years, this concept has flown wildly out of control in modern stuff. So much is about crafting now and it's typically haphazardly or lazily implemented so it serves the same purpose as useless grinding. And too simplistic crafting is repellent in the extreme. Our family Xmas party this year was virtual due to covid with everyone using their devices for the get together, and when my nephew designated himself activities director for the party as if we all dotards in a nursing home, he had us all go to a website for a flash game that mixed crafting with christmas movie trivia (you can use your own imaginations on how pathetic the crafting system was); it was the single most depressing experience I ever had at a party and its gonna take a while to get back into wanting to play a good game with a good crafting system. I think there was a thread or two on the dex about games with good crafting so I might try to find them.
     
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  14. Wunderbar Arcane

    Wunderbar
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    Reported for agree harvesting.
     
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  15. I'm Big Into Anal Arcane

    I'm Big Into Anal
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    I LOVE CRAFTING FUCK YA YA CUNT STRAYA MATE LEGEND
     
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  16. JackOfOwls Prophet

    JackOfOwls
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    The funniest post I saw on the dex was from some guy discussing crafting/grinding in survival games where you spend hours to make a knife only to meet your first enemy with an assault rifle that puts a spray of bullets up your ass. Game over, man.
     
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  17. Cryomancer Arcane Glory to Ukraine

    Cryomancer
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    I love crafting. I love that PF:WoTR allwos you to write your scrolls. I like be able to reacharge your ammo in FNV. And I love gathering ingredients and scrolls to make magical runes in g2. What is boring is to repetitively craft the same thing over and over.
     
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  18. Black Angel Arcane

    Black Angel
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    My only issue with them is the fact that they've completely rendered the unique items (with an exception of perhaps a few) rather obsolete with just how powerful they are (I'm risking crafting getting 'balanced' by saying this, didn't I?). For some reason, Styg refused to tweak them so that their stats are a bit more competitive compared to stuff you can craft, based on your current skills and parts quality, at the time you find the unique. AoD did this right; the unique items you can buy (and even haggle) off of merchants are just as good, if not better, than items you might be crafting at the time you found those unique items. And iirc, The Bolter even need a bit of crafting, so that's one of a kind unique item.

    I also dislikes how they've became the absolute most quintessential parts of *any* build, sort of what Temporal Manipulation has become (at least on Dominating or even Hard).
    Show Spoiler
    Again, I'm risking the game getting balanced by saying all these, didn't I? :mixedemotions:

    Oh well, here's to a better experience in Infusion :dealwithit:
     
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  19. J1M Arcane

    J1M
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    The solution is for crafted gear to be on par with looted items, but to not grant enough materials to craft every item upgrade. Since crafting can target specific item slots that have been passed over by the designers or the random number generator, that is enough utility to make it useful without overshadowing other sources of equipment.

    I like crafting sometimes in the sense that it's an insurance feature against designer incompetence regarding loot, but I usually prefer to ignore it.
     
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  20. Ryan muller Literate

    Ryan muller
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    This is my main problem with crafting.

    It makes exploration just really boring as you can very easily craft the best gear in the game in few hours


    To games like skyrim, its even worse as loot is level scaled, meaning that this basically makes any loot in the game completely useless and outright worst than the gear you already crafted.


    In order to make crafting good, developers have to balance the game to make equipment hard to obtain, so crafted items can be worst than some of the looted ones but still useful in the grand scheme of things

    Basically going for something like: begginer equipment is really hard to obtain so i can either go:

    A: loot and probably have a harder time in order to get new equipment but be very rewarded by doing so


    Or B: play it safe, collect resources and do starting equipment so i can prepare myself to quests and exploration without risking myself too much.


    Having the option to grind things like arrows/ammo and resources that arent cheap/easy to come by and have multiple uses also help to make it still useful in the late game.

    Tl;dr: crafting can be useful if balanced correctly, modern game design just screw it up very badly
     
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  21. gummy Learned

    gummy
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    Agreed. I can't think of a game off the top of my head that hits the balance between crafting being completely useless or completely undermining the difficulty. It's always one or the other.
     
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  22. Harthwain Magister

    Harthwain
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    I am not sure what your point is JarlFrank

    Yes, if you make crafting in MMO fashion it will be grindy and boring. But it doesn't mean the crafting itself is at fault - it's its makers' fault. In order for crafting to work it has to be simple yet meaningful, allowing you to juggle limited resources to get what you need most at the given moment. I would argue that with a good design you could make an excellent crafting system that enhances the overall experience.
     
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  23. Tyranicon A Memory of Eternity Developer

    Tyranicon
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    My opinion is that crafting is fine for producing ammo, consumables, etc. You know, things that would be realistic to craft, and not laser guns or endgame equipment.

    Really makes finding Volund the smith-god redundant when any Tony Stark knockoff can just make Mjolnir in a cave with a box of scraps.
     
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  24. plem Educated

    plem
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    the two RPGs in which I enjoyed crafting were Arcanum and Underrail, and I think that's because they treat crafting as its own viable playstyle.

    playing as a steampunk inventor in Arcanum or a plasma gun wielding mad scientist in Underrail feels fun because you're leveraging skills your character is uniquely good at to get an edge over your enemies, which is the core power fantasy of any RPG class or playstyle. wizards have magic, fighters have brawn, and artificers/tinkerers/inventors/whatever have crafting.

    in most games it feels like a chore because it's just mindless resource collecting and/or something every character can do. the worst offender I can think of (in CRPGs at least) is Pillars of Eternity, where no one character even does the crafting, it's just an abstracted menu where you spend some money and random loot to make the equipment's numbers go up.
     
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