Crafting sucks in 99% of cases

[Denim Destroyer]

Thief had crafting? That's new to me, and I've been playing that game's fan missions for 10 years.

He is likely referencing Sabotage at Soulforge and a few FMs that require an object to be constructed.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

I think you meant to say 100%.

 

[Demo.Graph]

Thief had crafting? That's new to me, and I've been playing that game's fan missions for 10 years.

It is possible to cast hammers in, iirc, second mission in TDP and craft mines in MA Soulforge. You taffer.

 

[Bad Sector]

I think crafting by itself is fine but the issue is that in some (many?) games it is kinda unlimited - e.g. as someone else wrote, you can craft the best armor and weapons, which trivializes other aspects of the game. IMO if some limitations are put in place so crafting isn't something that happens without thought (e.g. if you have the skill to make great weapons then your weapon using skill should suck because you shouldn't be able to raise both at the same level, meaning that you have to think how exactly to develop your character) which in turn can also have other interesting effects (i.e. if you can only do basic fighting because you focused on crafting then quests -or at least the important quests, not every character should be expected to finish everything- should have alternative approaches for characters that focus on crafting, even if it is something like collecting the pieces to build a golem to do the fighting for you :-P which might sound like a cop-out though it can be interesting as a master crafter-only set of quests). I think things become more interesting if we also consider party-based games.

When Realms Beyond was still a thing and I worked on it, we had people go "The game should have crafting! Why isn't there crafting? It's an RPG, crafting should be in it!!"

There are worse, some people even think that RPGs must have storytelling :-P

 

[JarlFrank]

Thief had crafting? That's new to me, and I've been playing that game's fan missions for 10 years.

It is possible to cast hammers in, iirc, second mission in TDP and craft mines in MA Soulforge. You taffer.

That's more of a one-time gimmick than a crafting system tho.

 

[Peachcurl]

I also wouldn't say that Baldurs Gate 2 has a crafting system, just because of Flail of Ages etc.

 

[HarveyBirdman]

As usual, pretty much only game to get basic mechanics right is Dark Souls. Crafting is not a grind (unless you're a min-maxing autismo), makes real differences in your build, and at the higher levels, are decisions that can't be undone.

 

[Black Angel]

As usual, pretty much only game to get basic mechanics right is Dark Souls. Crafting is not a grind (unless you're a min-maxing autismo), makes real differences in your build, and at the higher levels, are decisions that can't be undone.

There's no crafting in Souls, though? Unless getting embers and the similar tools, then using them to enchant/imbue your weapons with the corresponding ingredient count as crafting. (I don't think they do)

 

[HarveyBirdman]

As usual, pretty much only game to get basic mechanics right is Dark Souls. Crafting is not a grind (unless you're a min-maxing autismo), makes real differences in your build, and at the higher levels, are decisions that can't be undone.

There's no crafting in Souls, though? Unless getting embers and the similar tools, then using them to enchant/imbue your weapons with the corresponding ingredient count as crafting. (I don't think they do)

If using progressively rare items to upgrade a weapon's strength and change its damage type isn't crafting, then what is?

 

[Black Angel]

If using progressively rare items to upgrade a weapon's strength and change its damage type isn't crafting, then what is?

Uh, putting together two or more ingredients with generally different shapes and properties to procure an items with certain functionality? Like putting together a staff made of wood and a spearhead made of iron to make a spear. Or stuff like that. Simply changing an already existing weapon's property using ingredients isn't really crafting, per se.

 

[HarveyBirdman]

If using progressively rare items to upgrade a weapon's strength and change its damage type isn't crafting, then what is?

Uh, putting together two or more ingredients with generally different shapes and properties to procure an items with certain functionality? Like putting together a staff made of wood and a spearhead made of iron to make a spear. Or stuff like that. Simply changing an already existing weapon's property using ingredients isn't really crafting, per se.

Agree to disagree

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Arcanum crafting is some of the worst in the genre. It's heavy on component-hide-and-seek, 90% of the items you can make are useless trash, and there's no way to know that they're trash until you make the item.

 

[Wyatt_Derp]

Crafting is a trick used by developers to stir up game's lifespan.

It was a nice feature that blobbed out into a plague. Sure sign if your game has it, the dev's ran out of ideas before the game left concept stage.

1: Dialogue and story
2: quest tree and sub quest order
3: Uhhhh.... screw it, give the player character an axe and let them cut down trees to make shit.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Arcanum I could play a dumpster diving hobo. Makes me wonder if there are mods to build your own junk fortress, garrison, junk chariot, and more? Play a babbling techno dragonlance gnome. Build a steampunk mechwarrior.

 

[Blutwurstritter]

In my opinion the crafting mechanics are not the most important aspect; its more important how they interact with the rest of the game. Which is why crafting sucks so much in most games where its just tacked on without any interesting connections with the rest of the game. Clicking through menus and picking up tons of mundane stuff is not good enough and doesn't add anything meaningful to a game.

I liked crafting in Witcher 1, Gothic 1,2 and BG2 and Deus Ex. Potions and alchemy were central to the lore of witchers and the alchemy system did fit the game. On high difficulty(or it was some mod) it was central to apply the proper oils along with the right potions to be victorious. In Gothic it adds a lot the atmosphere. It gives purposeful interactions to objects in the world and also contributed choices to your character building; it didn't come cheap. Baldur's Gate 2 system was very simple but also fitted the setting, it rewarded exploration and doing side quests. It would have been even better if Cromwell had more conditions for you and if the economy had been balanced tighter; its to easy to attain mountains of gold. But most importantly, it wasn't a drag or time waste feature. I use the term crafting loosely but I think one can consider Deus Ex weapon mods and augments as crafting in the broader sense. The upgrades were sparse and the choice how to use them was connected to your playstyle.

 

[deuxhero]

Well from the brief bit of KotOR2 I played before I hit a hard issue with what I assume was a mod conflict (is there a "Skip Telos" mod so I can try again? That was honestly more tedious than Peragus IMO) I liked the crafting system. Parts for it were obtained by recycling unwanted items (occasionally as loot, but it's a small amount as to be irrelevant past early game), and the effect was that it enabled you to keep using unique items you'd otherwise forget about because they were behind in scaling. Truly unusual items were still allowed by simply tagging an item as not being upgradable. It also used general skills (repair and computer use) rather than forcing you to dump stuff into an otherwise useless crafting skill. Besides upgrade parts, you can only craft a handful of basic items, which really seem to matter in Peragus (since the Scout Enforcer you made is the only normal power, fully upgradable, blaster you can get there). Usefulness disparity between parts options was lacking though (Do you add 15% to your chance to hit, or a 1/20 chance of giving the enemy a 50% chance to not act?)

 

[Darth Canoli]

I liked the crafting system. Parts for it were obtained by recycling unwanted items (occasionally as loot, but it's a small amount as to be irrelevant past early game), and the effect was that it enabled you to keep using unique items you'd otherwise forget about because they were behind in scaling. Truly unusual items were still allowed by simply tagging an item as not being upgradable. It also used general skills (repair and computer use) rather than forcing you to dump stuff into an otherwise useless crafting skill. Besides upgrade parts, you can only craft a handful of basic items, which really seem to matter in Peragus (since the Scout Enforcer you made is the only normal power, fully upgradable, blaster you can get there). Usefulness disparity between parts options was lacking though (Do you add 15% to your chance to hit, or a 1/20 chance of giving the enemy a 50% chance to not act?)

Yes, crafting was simple but alright, particularly the light-saber crystals, similar to diablo crystals but with way better itemization and "enchantment" effects.

Many people here hate KotOR and KotOR II but I think it did most things right, even the Real Time combat is quite good.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I should try KOTOR. How does the melee combat compare to say Hexen or Elder Scroll (arena, daggerfall, morrowind... i never tried later), and oh Witchaven?

 

[Butter]

I should try KOTOR. How does the melee combat compare to say Hexen or Elder Scroll (arena, daggerfall, morrowind... i never tried later), and oh Witchaven?

It's Infinity Engine combat, complete with invisible 6 second rounds, except it's designed so that you can't properly control your entire party.

 

[Jack Of Owls]

Been playing around with the Viva New Vegas modlist and there is extensive crafting in it but why even bother? Unless you install special mods, every item and/or weapon is available in abundance and the game is almost a faceroll anyway so why even stop to craft? Maybe I should have enabled the Jsawyer mod or Unfound Loot in that modlist (which i only discovered much too late into my playthrough that I didn't).

 

[Darth Canoli]

I should try KOTOR. How does the melee combat compare to say Hexen or Elder Scroll (arena, daggerfall, morrowind... i never tried later), and oh Witchaven?

I barely have any experience with these, combat is quite dynamic, you can switch from one character to another and give them stack-able orders so they won't stare helplessly at the horizon and they'll even keep on attacking and even use special attacks when your orders are executed.

I find IE combat messy and requiring a lot of micro management and IE companions AI and scripts are really lacking, nothing revolutionary here except it works and it's simpler, I don't mind complicated if the result is rewarding but few games achieve this.

So, I'm not a big fan of IE combat and I find KotOR's one better, IE fanboys will probably tell you the exact opposite but can you really trust IE fanboy's taste or opinion?

 

[KörangarTheMighty]

I barely have any experience with these, combat is quite dynamic, you can switch from one character to another and give them stack-able orders so they won't stare helplessly at the horizon and they'll even keep on attacking and even use special attacks when your orders are executed.

In theory it should work like this but it doesn't. As soon as you cycle characters in KotOR, the prior character's queue is cleared of all actions after the first. It only works properly on the character you have selected.

 

[Lt Broccoli]

Crafting? Lets be honest here - crafting is the domain of the villains. How else can they devise those traps, forge gear for the minions, gather bones for their undead and compile their homunculi? Us players are just there smash it all up.

 

[Darth Canoli]

In theory it should work like this but it doesn't. As soon as you cycle characters in KotOR, the prior character's queue is cleared of all actions after the first. It only works properly on the character you have selected.

I didn't know this but now you mention it, I remember noticing queued action disappearing faster than it should, such a shame, it was one emergent feature for RT party-based combat.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I like games that let you do mad scientist sort of crafting. Underrail chemical pistols are a good example.

I'm not sure if it counts as 'crafting', but item customization by replacing parts can be enjoyable when it's properly designed such that you're choosing between competing parts and weighing the pros/cons.