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Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by 7hm, Jan 5, 2011.

  1. George Duroy Scholar

    George Duroy
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    You attack Oblivion because it's the norm in this site but if the norm was to attack Diablo, you would attack it.
     
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  2. felipepepe Prestigious Gentleman Codex's Heretic Patron

    felipepepe
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    Ultima 8 came out BEFORE Diablo, as did many other Action-RPGs. It was bound to happen, companies were already targeting a different audience, just look at M&M6's jump to real-time combat. Diablo II just did it better, like WoW did with MMOs.

    Regardless, this is like saying "Ultima is decline because it led to a bunch of shitty Ultima clones".
     
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  3. Jasede Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Patron

    Jasede
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    Are you fucking retarded? I was attacking Oblivion before you were fucking born and I was defending Diablo even the what, 15 years ago when I registered here you goddamn moron; not because of any peer pressure but because it was my genuine opinion.
    If you think I am afraid of going against the forum consensus you're a fucking idiot, as you can see by this thread where most people are attacking Diablo, and if I had any interest in being in the 'in-group' I'd be attacking it, too. People have been attacking me for who I am and what I believe here for 15 years and some fucking goddamn newfag is telling me I am 'going with the norm on this site.' You absolute cunt, GTFO.

    I like a ton of shit RPG Codex hates, and hate a lot of shit they love. Like goddamn Homo Elysium, that piece of shit.
     
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  4. octavius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    octavius
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    Try Diablo 2 instead.
     
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  5. V_K Arcane

    V_K
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    Oh yes. Skill trees. Don't even get me started on skill trees.
     
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  6. Fishy Learned

    Fishy
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    Gauntlet 2 with a save functionality isn't a new genre, and the 2 in Gauntlet 2 should be a hint that it wasn't even new back then. Heck, Gauntlet 2 even feels like it has more monster types and colours than Diablo.

    You may have a point however in that its success likely contributed to more and more loot/gear treadmill games which imho is a dreadful development, but to each their own. Irrespective of my own feelings, it certainly is a popular style.
     
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  7. NPC #61873 Educated

    NPC #61873
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    Gauntlet and Diablo have almost nothing in common except that they are action-based, try again
     
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  8. Jasede Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Patron

    Jasede
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    Also you can't save in Diablo if you play in multiplayer, which can be played solo for permadeath.
     
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  9. Nifft Batuff Arbiter

    Nifft Batuff
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    I would like to play a game with perma-permadeath: when you die, it auto-uninstalls and deletes all your internet accounts. You need to create onother account and re-buy to play it again. But it won't accept your old credit card.
     
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  10. V_K Arcane

    V_K
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    FTFY. Now that would introduce some genuine excitement into gameplay. Anything less is for casual popamolers.
     
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  11. Desiderius Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard Patron

    Desiderius
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    [​IMG] STOP! posting

    My oldest is obsessed with stop signs. About gotten him killed twice.

    Not going to stop positing on this topic - the braindead propaganda has made millions miserable.
     
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  12. Fowyr Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Fowyr
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    You know that it's not a proper RPG, I know it. V_K and others know it. Sadly, every second normie with whom I talked about RPGs since fucking 1998 thought that Diablo is a best RPG ever.
    It wasn't harbinger of decline, no, CRPGs were already almost dead with some DM-clones now or then (and European titles like Albion thrown in) but it was the game that shown publishers that dumbed-down RT isometric RPGs could be sold well.
     
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  13. Morblot Aberrant Member Patron

    Morblot
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    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
    So true, and also very sad, as the original Dungeon Crawl (before Stone Soup even) was my favorite roguelike. They managed to streamline the baby out with the bathwater...
     
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  14. Jasede Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Patron

    Jasede
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    We stan OG Linley's Dungeon Crawl :salute:
     
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  15. Metronome Educated

    Metronome
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    Is Rogue a RPG?
     
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  16. octavius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    octavius
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    So which is more of an RPG? Action game Diablo or interactive novel PS:T?
     
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  17. Latro Arcane

    Latro
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    PS:T, which is a full D&D game.
     
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  18. Desiderius Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard Patron

    Desiderius
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Is there a dragon? Lost that memory.
     
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  19. Fowyr Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Fowyr
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    Yes. It's a seminal game for the entire RPG subgenre. Very insular subgenre, but RPG nevertheless. Now say me why do you think that RT clickity-clack with a dumbed down character system is a roguelike? Is Binding of Isaac or Spelunky a roguelike? Are you retarded? Questions, so many questions.
     
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  20. V_K Arcane

    V_K
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    I see where he's coming from - the original Rogue had exactly two stats and no character classes. However, what matters is the context. Rogue was written in 1980 - a time where there was no standard for what a CRPG should look like. Actually, CRPGAddict has been doing a damn good job of documenting all the odd experiments at translating RPG gameplay to PC that were going on in that era. And then the way the genre of roguelikes has been developing ever since is towards increasing complexity - from Rogue to Moria, Nethack, ADoM etc. I mean, you have only to look at the weekly changelogs of Caves of Qud to see how crazy complex roguelike systems have become.
    None of these things apply to Diablo and Diablo-clones. The genre stated by dumbing down the existing RPG/roguelike formula, and the only reason its complexity hasn't declined further over the years is because there's nowhere to decline further.
     
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  21. CryptRat Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Developer

    CryptRat
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  22. Darth Canoli Magister

    Darth Canoli
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    Ultima was never incline to begin with.
    NPC schedules, lore, it was always a game for larpers.

    And don't get me started on the combat system ...
     
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  23. Nifft Batuff Arbiter

    Nifft Batuff
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    Larping a complex gameplay is the only way to enjoy modern dumbed down games.
     
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  24. Metronome Educated

    Metronome
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    Dumbing something down does not redefine it so long as the genre's features are maintained. One of the defining features of Rogue can not be a higher level of complexity than it's predecessor. All of the simplistic RPG mechanics in Rogue are basically lifted from Dungeons and Dragons and dumbed down for the early 80's computer. Now if turn-based gameplay defines a roguelike, Binding of Issac, Spelunky, and Diablo are not roguelikes. But regardless of it's status as a roguelike, Diablo is still a RPG. Nothing that a RPG is defined by is missing in Diablo. At least so long as Rogue is a RPG.

    Defining RPGs by notoriety or progress to begin with is obviously ignoring the vast majority of them. That's why I asked the initial question. If you've read this blog you should know exactly what I am talking about. There are plenty of simple and bad RPGs, but they are still obviously RPGs.
     
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  25. V_K Arcane

    V_K
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    You misconstrue my point. I don't give a rat's ass about defining RPGs. What I was saying in my original post is that Diablo simplified a core RPG mechanic - character builiding - to a point of near insignificance. And this particular trait got picked in the clones and successors, leading to a surge of very shallow RPGs - i.e. a decline.
     
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