Review CVG reviews Gothic 3 - 8.5

[Claw]

Similarities:

-Can kill anyone and take anything

Well... no.

 

[Dreagon]

What amazes me is the blatant Oblivion bashing I have just started to see creeping into the media. None of them ever state 'oh, I loved the game, but then realised that it is as shallow as all shit'...Just just pretend that they always saw its flaws

Perhaps Bethesda bought time shares or something.

Yeah, I was wondering about that too. I watched in disbelief as writers prostituted themselves to the Oblivion hype machine back then. I wonder how many of them kinda hope all their gushing will be forgotten as the idea of Oblivions mediocrity seems to settle into the collective conciousness.

 

[Blacklung]

One thing I'm very curious about is whether the enemies respawn at all. There were some instances in G2 where you would find enemies respawned in certain areas, though they were rare (not counting the addition of creatures after completing a chapter).

It always seemed that I had to really hunt for enough experience in G2 because I couldn't handle the tougher monsters without better items...but to get better items I had to have more experience...but to get more experience I had to fight the tougher monsters because I had killed the easy ones already...

It was a catch 22 which could only be broken with a few lucky runs against a higher level creature.

 

[vazquez595654]

Ladonna wrote:
What amazes me is the blatant Oblivion bashing I have just started to see creeping into the media. None of them ever state 'oh, I loved the game, but then realised that it is as shallow as all shit'...Just just pretend that they always saw its flaws Laughing

Perhaps Bethesda bought time shares or something.


Yeah, I was wondering about that too. I watched in disbelief as writers prostituted themselves to the Oblivion hype machine back then. I wonder how many of them kinda hope all their gushing will be forgotten as the idea of Oblivions mediocrity seems to settle into the collective conciousness.

What you are witnessing is business. Do you really think it's in accident they are doing that? Who cares what they say, after the initial selling phase dies down. It's the same shit for movies on their opening weekends. Actors will whore themselves during that period, and then later in retrospect, if the movie really sucks, admit the movie wasn't that good. You better believe gaming journalist are just like actors, and they have the same thing at stake, their jobs.

 

[Ladonna]

Please go into more detail vazquez.

I am guessing that the mag/website/etc that gets the 'exclusive' right to review a product needs to promise they will be favourable? What else is up for grabs? What things can happen if a reviewer doesn't toe the line?

Perhaps a publisher will blacklist a journalist from all their games?

 

[Elwro]

There were some instances in G2 where you would find enemies respawned in certain areas, though they were rare (not counting the addition of creatures after completing a chapter).

Hm. I always thought the only moments of respawning were the ends of chapters. Do you remember any details?

 

[suibhne]

I don't remember any respawning outside of chapter ends. I cleared the Valley of Mines of every enemy and nothing ever respawned, e.g., and I never noticed any (non-chapter) respawning elsewhere either.

There's one exception to this, maybe... I think I might possibly recall some limited respawning in the NotR expansion area?

 

[Blacklung]

I don't remember any respawning outside of chapter ends. I cleared the Valley of Mines of every enemy and nothing ever respawned, e.g., and I never noticed any (non-chapter) respawning elsewhere either.

There's one exception to this, maybe... I think I might possibly recall some limited respawning in the NotR expansion area?

It was a bit strange and I'm almost wondering if it was a glitch, but I distinctly remember clearing out the entire island (not the valley) in one of the chapters. After realizing this was the case, I was surprised in several points along the main road by either the Lurkers or those chicken-ish creatures in spots that I knew I had cleared.

It seemed completely random and happened rarely.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

I noticed respawning in the animals as well, i think it's after a week of ingame time.

 

[Micmu]

Periodic respawning in G1/G2?
I played both games several times (G2 with and without expansion) and never ever encountered such respawning.
New monsters did only spawn at the beginning of chapters as far as I can tell.

 

[Rendelius]

Received my copy of G3 today.

To say it in one sentence: Released way too early.

It's not about graphical glitches or minor bugs. This game hasn't been balanced at all. Combat is ridiculous. Critter AI is not existing.

If you ordered the game, do yourself a favor: don't touch it before it is heavily patched. The combat flaws will ruin your experience, and you will not be able to enjoy what else it has to offer.

From all three Gothic releases, this is the worst by far. Gothic 1 and 2 had their flaws as well, but they looked like polished diamonds in comparison. Take note that I can't tell you much about the roleplaying experience in G3, because - sorry to say - combat ruins everything right now.

 

[Crichton]

New monsters did only spawn at the beginning of chapters as far as I can tell.

Some quests, particularly the "x are bothering me, go kill them" type, spawn monsters, I never checked to see if other quests were spawning anything

 

[Claw]

To say it in one sentence: Released way too early.

To say it in one sentence: Posted way too early.

Combat is ridiculous.

Your combat skills are ridiculous.

From all three Gothic releases, this is the worst by far.

From all three Gothic releases, this is the best by far.

Take note that I can't tell you much about the roleplaying experience in G3, because - sorry to say - I have no clue what roleplaying means.

Fixed.

 

[Rendelius]

To say it in one sentence: Released way too early.

To say it in one sentence: Posted way too early.

Combat is ridiculous.

Your combat skills are ridiculous.

From all three Gothic releases, this is the worst by far.

From all three Gothic releases, this is the best by far.

Take note that I can't tell you much about the roleplaying experience in G3, because - sorry to say - I have no clue what roleplaying means.

Fixed.

How funny.

It just doesn't change the fact that the game was rushed. Big time.

Once you will get it into your hands, you will agree.

 

[Ladonna]

Have you played it Claw? I hope so, because if you haven't your making Volly look like a Bio hater at the moment.

 

[Claw]

It just doesn't change the fact that the game was rushed. Big time.

I didn't claim otherwise. It's just everything beyond that you got wrong.

Once you will get it into your hands, you will agree.

Been playing since Friday. Well done.

 

[Rendelius]

So how couldn't you have noticed, Claw?

I give you a few examples, why I think combat sucks because of severe misbalancing. Humans are easy to defeat, even in packs. But run across a wild boar, and you are dead one out of two encounters. If a bloodfly poisons you, you better reload instantly, because you won't survive the battle. You have no problem taking out orcs, but meet a waran and you are gone.

Animals are extremely fast when they attack. You better just use the left mouse button, the right one means severe damage - to you. If you encounter a flock of foes, their combat behaviour is stupid. Even some animations seem to be missing.

Economy is unbalanced as well, just like leveling. Go to the arena and have no worries furtheron.

Another example why my statement that the game was rushed big time holds true: The 7800 GFX I own is listed as a supported card. However, if I turn on antialiasing, I have seas of transparency on the ground and get texture errors.

I say it again, since you managed to ignore my statements completely just to bash me: The game may be wonderful, engaging, deep and whatever. It's just that it has been shipped in a state that needs severe patching. None of the other Gothic games was that unfinished when it was released. Once they fix the balance issues, this will be a great game, but at it is now, it isn't. I won't be distracted by the fact that dead foes stick in walls or they have a couple of clipping issues in their world - that's not what makes or breaks a game, but balance is important for your gaming experience, and to me it clearly seems that they hadn't had time to finish balancing before the release.

BTW, JoWood has a long history of releasing games way too early, and I am absolutely sure that they HAD to release Gothic 3 now, because they are in deep financial troubles and Gothic 3 was their only hot horse in the stable.

For my part, I will leave Gothic on my HD untouched for a month or so, until they fixed these balance issues - and THEN enjoy it at least as much as I enjoyed the other parts.

 

[Paranoid Jack]

I hope to have my copy by Monday but it's not for certain the way the postal services work here. I am still excited to play the game but now you got me a bit worried, again.

Has anyone else picked up the game and had sufficient time to give a first impression? Could you two tell us which versions you are playing? Also Claw and Rendelius, how long (how many hours) would you estimate you have played before forming your opinions?

Just curious because it took me several attempts and numerous hours to get into G2. Mostly I blame the trend to simplify combat that the NA cRPGs have. Its basically that old double edge sword. It makes things too easy at times and causes us to expect combat to be easy to manage in all cRPGs. And I guess depending on ones likes or dislikes that is acceptable.

Rendelius, is it possible the creatures you are fighting are just harder to kill because you need to adjust your fighting tactics, weapons used, and/or armor use? Remember most people hated the system Oblivion had for leveling the challenge with you... and this is supposed to be far from that.

I'm not going to worry about opening the game now or waiting for patches. I'll make up my own mind after playing for a dozen or so hours... and if it needs a bit of time to ripen on the shelf that isn't a big problem since the trend for early releases has been going on for so long its just business as usual now. Sad, I know.

On the flip side it may and most likely will effect their sales if the word of mouth is that they released too soon and need to polish it with patches. I was hoping they would get this one right since they are trying to capture a much broader market this time around. And I was hoping a nice showing would help to change the current trends.

 

[Rendelius]

I hope to have my copy by Monday but it's not for certain the way the postal services work here. I am still excited to play the game but now you got me a bit worried, again.

Has anyone else picked up the game and had sufficient time to give a first impression? Could you two tell us which versions you are playing? Also Claw and Rendelius, how long (how many hours) would you estimate you have played before forming your opinions?

Just curious because it took me several attempts and numerous hours to get into G2. Mostly I blame the trend to simplify combat that the NA cRPGs have. Its basically that old double edge sword. It makes things too easy at times and causes us to expect combat to be easy to manage in all cRPGs. And I guess depending on ones likes or dislikes that is acceptable.

Rendelius, is it possible the creatures you are fighting are just harder to kill because you need to adjust your fighting tactics, weapons used, and/or armor use? Remember most people hated the system Oblivion had for leveling the challenge with you... and this is supposed to be far from that.

I'm not going to worry about opening the game now or waiting for patches. I'll make up my own mind after playing for a dozen or so hours... and if it needs a bit of time to ripen on the shelf that isn't a big problem since the trend for early releases has been going on for so long its just business as usual now. Sad, I know.

On the flip side it may and most likely will effect their sales if the word of mouth is that they released too soon and need to polish it with patches. I was hoping they would get this one right since they are trying to capture a much broader market this time around. And I was hoping a nice showing would help to change the current trends.

I try to answer your questions.
Until now, I have spent app. 8 hours with Gothic 3. The glitches in the balance became obvious right after the first village and haven't left me yet.

I don't think that I use the wrong battle tactics. If the boar gets the first hit before you hit him, you are gone. You can use an approach and retreat tactic once you figured out the aggro radius of foes, but this is repetetive, unrealistic and plain stupid regarding immersion.

BTW, a couple of creatures seem to level with you as well, as far as I can tell. I remember that PB stated that in an interview a couple of months ago.

Don't get me wrong: The rest of the game is still pleasing and satisfying, while a lot of other things seem to be very unpolished. Another thing I noticed that the dialogue options seem to be less than in Gothic 2, and the talks between people you can listen to are very random and do not make sense most of the time. Another thing I noticed is that the story is only losely woven so far.

The Gothic feeling is still there, and I hope it becomes more prominent the deeper I get into the game.

 

[Paranoid Jack]

Thanks for the info.

So what type of character build are you using? And what weapon type did you choose to start with? What version of the game are you playing (is it the UK release, German, or which)? Not that I would expect much difference in anything other than the dialog and translations of.

Are you using melee, ranged, magic or a combo? Sorry, for all the questions I am just overly curious since I have yet to receive my copy and am looking forward to figuring all these issues out while playing my character.

Also I think that they designed it this way for a reason. Hard unbeatable creatures from the start? No level one character taking on any and every challenge the game has to offer. So basically they want you to be forced to flee at times, to struggle at finding your place in the game-world, to grow strong and eventually take down foes you could not manage earlier in the game.

Sounds good to me. I remember killing every living thing between the tower and the first town (I'm usually terrible with names) in G2 and somehow it was both appealing and disappointing at the same time.

Edit: I do realize in G2 if you left the main road to town and head either direction you would find yourself pushing up daisies and reloading a saved file pretty quick. So they did have a good amount of possible encounters like the Ork and the Black Goblins (I think they were) to the left of the main road down in the little box canyon.

Either way I am still psyched to get G3 installed and start exploring the game-world. Thanks again for you answers.

 

[Mr.Rocco]

Received my copy of G3 today.

To say it in one sentence: Released way too early.

It's not about graphical glitches or minor bugs. This game hasn't been balanced at all. Combat is ridiculous. Critter AI is not existing.

If you ordered the game, do yourself a favor: don't touch it before it is heavily patched. The combat flaws will ruin your experience, and you will not be able to enjoy what else it has to offer.

From all three Gothic releases, this is the worst by far. Gothic 1 and 2 had their flaws as well, but they looked like polished diamonds in comparison. Take note that I can't tell you much about the roleplaying experience in G3, because - sorry to say - combat ruins everything right now.

Aren't you the idiot who said Oblivion is great and it's even better thanks to modding community?

 

[Whipporowill]

Well, it certainly sounds like G3 was released a few months early - according to the buzz on the net. What's been said here's basically the same as on other boards - some people are bugged in a bad way (graphical glitches, crashes), combat seems unbalanced (humans are easy, animals impossible) but the game retains the Gothic feeling. Some people on the other hand don't seem to have all that much problem running it - come to think of it, it reminds me a lot about the when Bloodlines was released. I didn't suffer any bugs until the dreaded Leopold Society one. Basically I don't see anyone bashing the game, just frustration with the state it's been released in.

Funny thing is that I've not bought it yet, but held it in my grubby hands as my buddy flashed his copy.

 

[Rendelius]

Aren't you the idiot who said Oblivion is great and it's even better thanks to modding community?

No, I am the PERSON who said that Oblivion is great and it's even better thanks to the modding community.

But YOU certainly are the idiot who thinks opinions are wrong if they aren't like yours.

 

[Rendelius]

Thanks for the info.

So what type of character build are you using? And what weapon type did you choose to start with? What version of the game are you playing (is it the UK release, German, or which)? Not that I would expect much difference in anything other than the dialog and translations of.

Are you using melee, ranged, magic or a combo? Sorry, for all the questions I am just overly curious since I have yet to receive my copy and am looking forward to figuring all these issues out while playing my character.

Also I think that they designed it this way for a reason. Hard unbeatable creatures from the start? No level one character taking on any and every challenge the game has to offer. So basically they want you to be forced to flee at times, to struggle at finding your place in the game-world, to grow strong and eventually take down foes you could not manage earlier in the game.

Sounds good to me. I remember killing every living thing between the tower and the first town (I'm usually terrible with names) in G2 and somehow it was both appealing and disappointing at the same time.

Edit: I do realize in G2 if you left the main road to town and head either direction you would find yourself pushing up daisies and reloading a saved file pretty quick. So they did have a good amount of possible encounters like the Ork and the Black Goblins (I think they were) to the left of the main road down in the little box canyon.

Either way I am still psyched to get G3 installed and start exploring the game-world. Thanks again for you answers.

I am using a warior type for my first game. I do some ranged combat as well.

Unfortunately, this isn't because they implemented hard, unbeatable creatures so you have a challenge. It's just not balanced. For example, if you lead a boar into the first rebel camp, he will take down 5 or more rebels before he can be defeated. The problem is that the boars, wolves and fireflies attack faster than a sewing machine can sew. Once you are in a chain of attacks, you can reload.

This is one of the things that need to be corrected to make G3 enjoyable. The other thing I noticed is that the level system is extremely weird. If you keep fighting in the arena, you gain levels faster than you can think. I have read fom someone that he managed to get to level 40 in a short time.

So, my personal feeling is that the game needs a serious patch to be the RPG we all expected.

 

[Gwendo]

Just one thing: I assume you're playing G3 with the released patch, right?

Oh why, Why, WHY did I order the game?

 

[elander_]

This is typical. Someone whinning about a great game like Gothic because combat doesn't play like NWN where you can kill a red dragon about 20x bigger than yourself with your bare hands.

I think rpgdot has announced a patch for the game:
http://www.rpgdot.com/#51156

LOL