sportforredneck
Cipher
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2007
- Messages
- 7,715
The idea for the conversation system is rather great if implemented right. Reputation needs to have a large impact, which this seems to be attempting.
-
Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.
"This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
Development Info Cyclopean announced
- Thread starter Elwro
- Start date
xantrius
Liturgist
Cyclopean looks promising, interest piqued for sure.
A skill named Arcanum?
Couldn't resist, huh?
Couldn't resist, huh?
FrancoTAU
Cipher
The Sanity meter sounds great. I do agree that the name Cyclopean isn't all that great.
Lord Rocket
Erudite
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2008
- Messages
- 1,089
Let's skip the reasons why I'm anti basing this explicitly on Lovecraft's stories, because they are weird, wholly subjective and I'm not even going to bother trying to defend them for that reason,* and carry on to the levelling up issue.
Fez is quite right. Leveling up is fine for fantasy etc. games where your character is supposed to be a 'hero;' by rights, a tenth level character will be many times tougher, meaner, and more skilled than a 1st level character. Even when the point of 'transcendence,' I guess you could say, is a bit lower than we've gotten used to in modern times - say, Batman as opposed to Superman - you're still the Goddamn Batman at the end of it.
Anyway, the point is, levels are basically an arbiter of power. The problem with that approach is that in horror fiction, everyone's on a pretty equal footing; if a tenth level character isn't threatened by a monster, then you've got shit like Underworld and you've missed the point. In my experience, HPL's characters had one level - 'puny human' - and obviously this is best expressed via skill based mechanics (you could give them a level cap I guess, but that's a bit clumsy when it comes down to it). Preferably progressive ones, by which I mean you get better at stuff by practice and advancing in the game. I know people will bitch about TES here, but let me point out that advancement could easily be confined to performing actions related to quests, while non-quest related practice gives a very very small amount of skill XPs, a la Cyberpunk 2020, or the equivalent.
Anyway, since I quoted a big block of text, I'll take this opportunity to reply: VD, what you had to say regarding advancement is in no way exclusive to level based systems. That's basically what characters do in any RP system, whether it be SPECIAL, DnD or Runequest, and hiding behind titles doesn't change the basic mechanics in place (hey, 1e ADnD as well as the stuff prior to that had level titles too you know. 0e actually used them exclusively in the text).
Also, I'm not particularly enthralled with your thoughts on Lovecraftian literature. Since when did his characters ever end up' learning how to deal with different things'? I guess you could say something like that about stuff like The Dunwich Horror, but generally the protagonists ended up rather on the back foot, and victories tend to be transient at best. Who remembers The Shadow Over Innsmouth? Not to mention the fact that 'killing for the first time' was also very much the last time. Thing on the Doorstep, Rats in the Walls.
* Well, one thing. To the guy who pointed out Lovecraft was happy to have other authors use and expand on his mythos: right, but he also thought games were shitty wastes of time. Hard to know how he would have felt about his creations being used in an 'inferior' fashion.
Vault Dweller said:
Fez is quite right. Leveling up is fine for fantasy etc. games where your character is supposed to be a 'hero;' by rights, a tenth level character will be many times tougher, meaner, and more skilled than a 1st level character. Even when the point of 'transcendence,' I guess you could say, is a bit lower than we've gotten used to in modern times - say, Batman as opposed to Superman - you're still the Goddamn Batman at the end of it.
Anyway, the point is, levels are basically an arbiter of power. The problem with that approach is that in horror fiction, everyone's on a pretty equal footing; if a tenth level character isn't threatened by a monster, then you've got shit like Underworld and you've missed the point. In my experience, HPL's characters had one level - 'puny human' - and obviously this is best expressed via skill based mechanics (you could give them a level cap I guess, but that's a bit clumsy when it comes down to it). Preferably progressive ones, by which I mean you get better at stuff by practice and advancing in the game. I know people will bitch about TES here, but let me point out that advancement could easily be confined to performing actions related to quests, while non-quest related practice gives a very very small amount of skill XPs, a la Cyberpunk 2020, or the equivalent.
Anyway, since I quoted a big block of text, I'll take this opportunity to reply: VD, what you had to say regarding advancement is in no way exclusive to level based systems. That's basically what characters do in any RP system, whether it be SPECIAL, DnD or Runequest, and hiding behind titles doesn't change the basic mechanics in place (hey, 1e ADnD as well as the stuff prior to that had level titles too you know. 0e actually used them exclusively in the text).
Also, I'm not particularly enthralled with your thoughts on Lovecraftian literature. Since when did his characters ever end up' learning how to deal with different things'? I guess you could say something like that about stuff like The Dunwich Horror, but generally the protagonists ended up rather on the back foot, and victories tend to be transient at best. Who remembers The Shadow Over Innsmouth? Not to mention the fact that 'killing for the first time' was also very much the last time. Thing on the Doorstep, Rats in the Walls.
* Well, one thing. To the guy who pointed out Lovecraft was happy to have other authors use and expand on his mythos: right, but he also thought games were shitty wastes of time. Hard to know how he would have felt about his creations being used in an 'inferior' fashion.
aleph
Arcane
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2008
- Messages
- 1,778
I suppose he was refering more to games like poker or games of chance since during his lifetime not many other kind of games where around. Still, it is hard to tell what he would have thought about computer games and roleplaying games which are a more "narrative" form of game and can feel quite similar to a short story or novel.
Vault Dweller
Commissar, Red Star Studio
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2003
- Messages
- 28,044
Levels are not about being an hero. Levels are one of the ways to measure your character(s) progression, which is one of the key elements of RPGs.Lord Rocket said:
And an experienced [profession] will always be much better than a novice. What's your point?
RPGs aren't books and "being threatened by monsters" isn't the main activity.
Then you are a mind-reader as I've offered none. I did post some thoughts on Lovecraft based RPGs though.
Well, if the level system is pulled off nicely, the differences between levels aren't that huge, and if there are many meaningful non-combat skills... then it might turn out all right. Especially if numbers are replaced with "novice" "skilled" "expert" and so on. Would fit better to the setting than numbers. I don't see a big problem there.
elander_
Arbiter
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2005
- Messages
- 2,015
Psycroptic said:
http://www.mobygames.com/game/hound-of-shadow
One of the best chargen i have seen. And it has procedural elements too, being a text-based crpg events will unfold slightly different when you play with a different character.
Cthulhugoat
Arbiter
peak
Scholar
I'd like a leveling system where skills have names. And wherein the max skill level is still "puny human" 
It'll be interesting how the sanity meter works, whether certain actions will be forced upon the player, dialogue gets screwed up (ie-VtMB Malks), or if the music changes. Speaking of music I think alot could be done for the atmosphere in a Cthulhu RPG if a good composition is proffered. Just a thought.
I think what'd be cool is if depending on sanity you could meet an NPC, talk to him etc. and possibly find out that the NPC died a long time ago or that noone else aknowledges his existence.
It might be hard to portray in a meaningful way though, given the players' general attitude to NPCs. Then again, it'd be interesting for replay value alone.
It might be hard to portray in a meaningful way though, given the players' general attitude to NPCs. Then again, it'd be interesting for replay value alone.
dagorkan
Arbiter
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2006
- Messages
- 5,164
This better not be a joke... wow, if it's true, I'll have to take back everything I said about the death of RPGs.
As for "vaporware", I know some of you guys think it's funny (really hilarious!) to be cynical about everything but if they're using the AoD engine (and I see no reason why they wouldn't) that cuts away one of the major obstacles to independent/fan projects leaving them to focus on the story and C&C.
VD are you following an existing PnP ruleset or making up the mechanics from scratch? I know there are several versions out there which attempt to take advantage of the unique setting and atmosphere of the Cthulhu books though I never played any of them.
As for "vaporware", I know some of you guys think it's funny (really hilarious!) to be cynical about everything but if they're using the AoD engine (and I see no reason why they wouldn't) that cuts away one of the major obstacles to independent/fan projects leaving them to focus on the story and C&C.
VD are you following an existing PnP ruleset or making up the mechanics from scratch? I know there are several versions out there which attempt to take advantage of the unique setting and atmosphere of the Cthulhu books though I never played any of them.
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2007
- Messages
- 8,116
On the Creation of Niggers
When, long ago, the gods created Earth
In Iove's fair image Man was shaped at birth.
The beasts for lesser parts were next designed;
Yet were they too remote from humankind.
To fill the gap, and join the rest to Man,
Th'Olympian host conceiv'd a clever plan.
A beast they wrought, in semi-human figure,
Filled it with vice, and called the thing a nigger.
H.P. Lovecraft
When, long ago, the gods created Earth
In Iove's fair image Man was shaped at birth.
The beasts for lesser parts were next designed;
Yet were they too remote from humankind.
To fill the gap, and join the rest to Man,
Th'Olympian host conceiv'd a clever plan.
A beast they wrought, in semi-human figure,
Filled it with vice, and called the thing a nigger.
H.P. Lovecraft
Vaarna_Aarne
Notorious Internet Vandal
No reason to mince words about it. Lovecraft was a racist. I think most of the people who (like me) liked his stories know it and hopefully ain't in denial about it.
Vaarna_Aarne
Notorious Internet Vandal
Well, I for one don't find it acceptable even if we take timeframes. Just ignorant. But I don't think it diminishes Lovecraft's stories at all... And he did seem to improve in this regard with age (see, the larger number of positive black characters in later works).aleph said:
dagorkan
Arbiter
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2006
- Messages
- 5,164
"Diminishes his work"? Are you really this stupid?
The entire way Lovecraft writes is based on appealing to archetypes, built on irrational fears and prejudices. The reasons we react to the portrayal of the Old Ones and their servants, the haunting, alien landscapes and the eery descriptions of bizarre geometries have the same causes as the common prejudices 97.5% of human beings have about strangers, about the Other. The entire theme of Lovecraft's work is the external world, full of unknowns (filtered through untrustworthy sense-perception) versus the inner world of instincts and emotions in constant struggle reason. By the end of most of the stories the characters can't even trust their sense of reason and those who survive do so because they reverted to instinct.
If you truly are the PC idiot you just painted yourself as you should not pretend that you like Lovecraft which would be clearly contradictory. Somebody with no prejudices at all cannot by nature appreciate literature, someone like that can never be more than semi-human.
Someone who does not have prejudices is better off dead because their soul is already dead. In any case having prejudices and failing to control them are two different things.
How you can judge Lovecraft or anyone who has racist or sexist thoughts as 'bad people' is beyond me. As far as I am aware he was a private person and mainly stayed at home and wrote, he never lynched anyone or persecuted any individual, and his first wife was Jewish which proves he was able to distinguish between reality and fantasy (unlike many people on the internet).
The entire way Lovecraft writes is based on appealing to archetypes, built on irrational fears and prejudices. The reasons we react to the portrayal of the Old Ones and their servants, the haunting, alien landscapes and the eery descriptions of bizarre geometries have the same causes as the common prejudices 97.5% of human beings have about strangers, about the Other. The entire theme of Lovecraft's work is the external world, full of unknowns (filtered through untrustworthy sense-perception) versus the inner world of instincts and emotions in constant struggle reason. By the end of most of the stories the characters can't even trust their sense of reason and those who survive do so because they reverted to instinct.
If you truly are the PC idiot you just painted yourself as you should not pretend that you like Lovecraft which would be clearly contradictory. Somebody with no prejudices at all cannot by nature appreciate literature, someone like that can never be more than semi-human.
Someone who does not have prejudices is better off dead because their soul is already dead. In any case having prejudices and failing to control them are two different things.
How you can judge Lovecraft or anyone who has racist or sexist thoughts as 'bad people' is beyond me. As far as I am aware he was a private person and mainly stayed at home and wrote, he never lynched anyone or persecuted any individual, and his first wife was Jewish which proves he was able to distinguish between reality and fantasy (unlike many people on the internet).
As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.