Dark Messiah of Might and Magic

[Semiurge]

The giant worm in chapter 6...wtf? I don't remember it being such a POS to get past.

It's considerably easier to get past it if you have a shield with you. Otherwise its attacks will always succeed, as I recall.

My memory of Dark Messiah is that the stealthy rogue type stuff made the game much harder. I remember thinking it was obviously designed around melee, with maybe some fireballs thrown in. I'm pretty sure I started as a rogue and then started over with a more normal melee guy. I could be wrong though, it was a long time ago. Maybe time for a replay finally...

Lol on the pier when you kick those guys into the water and they die instantly!

 

[Excommunicator]

The giant worm in chapter 6...wtf? I don't remember it being such a POS to get past.

It's considerably easier to get past it if you have a shield with you. Otherwise its attacks will always succeed, as I recall.

My memory of Dark Messiah is that the stealthy rogue type stuff made the game much harder. I remember thinking it was obviously designed around melee, with maybe some fireballs thrown in. I'm pretty sure I started as a rogue and then started over with a more normal melee guy. I could be wrong though, it was a long time ago. Maybe time for a replay finally...

To be fair, stealth in RPGs is usually either a cakewalk or a significant spike in difficulty/frustration, more often the latter. I tend to be resigned to this fact given how hard it is to deliver a good stealth system.

 

[DalekFlay]

To be fair, stealth in RPGs is usually either a cakewalk or a significant spike in difficulty/frustration, more often the latter. I tend to be resigned to this fact given how hard it is to deliver a good stealth system.

One thing you have to give Bethesda's recent games is that stealth is a very viable playstyle in them, if you want to play them that way. Sneaky archers and snipers especially work well in the last two TES and Fallout games.

 

[Excommunicator]

To be fair, stealth in RPGs is usually either a cakewalk or a significant spike in difficulty/frustration, more often the latter. I tend to be resigned to this fact given how hard it is to deliver a good stealth system.

One thing you have to give Bethesda's recent games is that stealth is a very viable playstyle in them, if you want to play them that way. Sneaky archers and snipers especially work well in the last two TES and Fallout games.

What do you mean? The last two TES games, Skyrim and Oblivion? Oblivion had good stealth? How?

 

[JDR13]

Yeah, the stealth was pretty crap in those games, at least unmodded.

 

[Cyril]

It was not amazing, though surprisingly fun for a relatively simple game. Easy to play, but still challenging. You can kind of use your intuition to overcome difficulty. Fluid.

Slightly dumbed down Severance, but a finished/polished game by comparison (in severance only finished character class was Knight) with more appealing aesthetica though less open-world.

It feels like a game that was not supposed to be there and for that I am grateful and do remember the experience of it more fondly than not.

 

[DalekFlay]

What do you mean? The last two TES games, Skyrim and Oblivion? Oblivion had good stealth? How?

Stealthy archers are great playstyles in both, especially Skyrim. This is a pretty common opinion so I'm surprised you're... surprised. It's a billion times better than the whacky-whacky without feedback melee that most rational people hate.

 

[Excommunicator]

I'm surprised you're saying it because I definitely disagree

 

[Ol' Willy]

After hearing a lot of praise for this game combat I decided to try it. Melee looks good - light attack, block and six types of powered attacks! So I went as pure swordfighter - no magic, no stealth, no bullshit. With bows though, endless ammo helps to use bows even without proper skill. And I went on Hard. Well, it was challenging, but little fun.

Enemies are fucking sponges. They take ages to kill with sword. Main character is glass one, though, dying in several hits. And he starts to suffocating after running for 10 seconds or making five kicks, I guess poor bastard was smoking several packs of Rothmans each day since he was ten. Environmental kills are overpowered, though. Kick a guy into spikes - dead. Into water - dead. Into fire - dead. From great highs - dead. A thrown barrel does more damage than several power attacks with sword. So I was kicking guys to their death and running around like madman, throwing stuff at people. Feels like being a fucking Donkey Kong, throwing barrels at your foes all the time - until I reached the ork boss. This was the pinnacle of this prestigious swordfighting. Your block is magic and unpenetrable for all enemy melee attacks as long as you hold down the button and they don't flank you. Against one guy this is not a problem. So block - watch guy telegraph his attack - kick - power attack. Rinse and repeat. With ork boss this process took five to seven minutes of slicing him up, with enthralling commentary of two lines by him "Stranger gonna meet his dragon", and "Stranger gonna die". All in all, I definitely killed more guys with environment than with melee.

I was able to reach necromancer lair before I quit. Vampire knight are bastards, fast and deadly (and spongy). But in the dark I didn't even realized that. While I was descending in the library I kept kicking them down to inglorious instadeath, not even realizing who they are. Only down below, I met two of them in a fair fight and lost it. Of course, I had the choice to run up and kick them down like dozens of guys before, but by this point I was tired of kicking people to death.

And then I went to play on Normal. And this is not fun too, as Normal is piss easy. No challenge whatsoever. I didn't play it for more than two hours.

Well, maybe archer/mage/sneaky builds are more fun, but pure swordfighting here definitely sucks.

 

[Max Damage]

Dark Messiah definitely needed difficulty between Easy and Sponges. Playing on Hard w/o using magic is really tedious, OTOH spells like charm and making ice puddles for finishing blows can trivialize even the spongiest crowds. Stealth works very well, actually: wearing best suit will make you practically invisible. The most important thing to remember is best spells/skills are in the beginning/middle of their respective trees, this makes hybrid Sareth much better than rushing to things that require heavy investment (regeneration, more adrenaline, weakness spell). Bows are pretty good, much better than damaging magic for sure, sneaky mage with bows is very strong, especially since later bows get stuff like better crits or freezing arrows. If you do want to do good damage with magic, you're better off using telekinesis and the basic fire spell on well-oiled targets. Oh, and don't forget you can set your arrows on fire if you draw next to something burning.

 

[what am i doing]

Part of the problem with Dark Messiah's difficulty is that they crank up enemy damage (good) while also cranking up enemy health (bad). You can actually customize the difficulty by going into the game's configuration files and set it so that enemies hit hard without being damage sponges. This may be an ideal choice if you feel hardcare mode makes enemies take too long to die. Personally I think there's also a bit of an issue with balance over the course of the game; if you don't crank up enemy health, and are playing a physical damage build with points in Strength, then in the lategame you'll be killing enemies very easily.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I don't remember them being so spongy, but it's been awhile. The ghouls that you fight toward the end certainly are, but that's the only one I recall. I only did one pure melee run. Make sure you don't miss the sword upgrades. The game shines when played as a hybrid thief/mage. Stealth, environmental interactions, and improvisation attacks are so well implemented that direct melee or magic are not optimal outside of a few boss fights. Effectiveness aside, it's simply the most fun way to play the game. M&M Dark Messiah have some excellent dungeons to spelunk and gives you an outstanding adventure experience.

 

[DalekFlay]

Stealth works very well, actually: wearing best suit will make you practically invisible.

I remember quitting my stealth playthrough because there were so many sections where they made stealth impossible, like the boat dock. It was a long time ago though. Archer/mage combo sounds interesting.

 

[Krilmar]

Played it recently, definitely sponges on hard, even the fucking goblins. The best part was when you were supposed to duel the orc chieftain. I knocked him down like 3-4 times with one of the boulders in the arena (which somehow didn't count as cheating lol) to do the finishing blow on him to kill him. Who knows how many hits it would take to kill him the "fair" way. Usually I play games on hardest difficulty but this game is not as fun on hard.

 

[Wesp5]

I loved strategically kicking enemies, like from cliffs or into fires, and I don't think any other game ever replicated this! Only having them die immediately on any spike made no sense. They should have just taken damage as from sharp weaons then...

 

[JDR13]

The ladder monsters were the toughest enemies in the game for me. Seriously, I died more times from falling off ladders than I did from combat.

 

[Goromorg]

The game is fun but the balance is not very good.
Defensive spells (Charm, Sanctuary) are OP.
Strength+Weapon>>>Offensive spells
The strongest character is daggers+strength+sanctuary.
Melee weapons inflict more damage when you land hits to the head. Gutting daggers without any points in Strength can shred orcs very quickly even on Hard if you aim to the head.

 

[Technomancer]

Enemies are fucking sponges. They take ages to kill with sword.

Playing on Hard w/o using magic is really tedious, OTOH spells like charm and making ice puddles for finishing blows can trivialize even the spongiest crowds.

Played it recently, definitely sponges on hard, even the fucking goblins.

Kinda disagree. I love this game and play it on Hardcore and it seems easy enough. The trick is to hit enemies with a power strike right in the head for massive damage.

I remember recording warrior classed playthrough on hardcore many years ago but I never actually made it public.

 

[Max Damage]

Charged hits and headshots are the way to go, yes. I remember ghouls still being pretty annoying, so much better when you can trip them with ice.

I remember quitting my stealth playthrough because there were so many sections where they made stealth impossible, like the boat dock. It was a long time ago though. Archer/mage combo sounds interesting.

Well, by the time you reach docks your stealth isn't best yet, which is why it's good to have some of the essential spells or archery for backup, you can also use arrows to make distraction noises. Mid-endgame stealth is very simple, just stab someone in the back, move aside a bit, wait for the next to investigate, stab again. Archery is strong, but spells unleash its full potential: much easier to aim when you don't have to run away constantly.

 

[Semiurge]

Every ghoul is a cunt that can kill you with 1-2 swift hits at higher difficulties.

 

[Technomancer]

Every ghoul is a cunt that can kill you with 1-2 swift hits at higher difficulties.

True enough but they are not so bad if you are prepared. That said I absolutely hate their headbutt attack that goes straight to your head ignoring block while almost 1 shotting you.

I remember fishing for extra lines of dialog from that L girl in the temple. I was not expecting a second wave coming in if you don't go to the gate soon enough. But even though they are so resistant to kicks and damage they get knocked down by rocks to the head same as all.

With good armor and potion of stone skin, they only do 16 damage on hardcore.

Since every other enemy is easy enough to kill without it, this potion is pretty much made to fight them.

 

[octavius]

Charm works very well on Ghouls.

 

[ItsChon]

Fuck this game looks so good. I'm going to give it another go and see if I can get it to work.

 

[Technomancer]

Fuck this game looks so good. I'm going to give it another go and see if I can get it to work.

It sure does. I was forced to abandon recording the playthrough because it started to lag pretty hard on later levels. Hopefully gonna finish it properly next year with a new machine. A bit sad that this game does not support 4k, I wish I could show it at its best.

 

[Wesp5]

I always wonder why there aren't any big fan expansions for DMMM. It uses the Source engine which is quite easy to map for and there are probably thousands of fan made HL2 maps and campaigns! Did Arkane release the SDK too late or did fans have to made it themselves in the first place because Arkane didn't care, like with Bloodlines?