Dark Souls is NOT a Metroidvania

[The_Mask]

>Narrative is very rarely told trough cutscenes.

>Narrative is told solely trough cutscenes;

A trough is an elongated narrow container from where animals usually eat or drink out of.

Through is what you wanted to write.

 

[Beastro]

If you shoot a gun even once in a game, it is a Doom clone. Everyone knows this.

Any game where an inanimate surface can potentially block an enemy attack, inadvertently or not is popamole.

Therefore, any RPG where you can equip a shield is popamole.

 

[Goi~Yaas~Dinn]

If you shoot a gun even once in a game, it is a Doom clone. Everyone knows this.

Any game where an inanimate surface can potentially block an enemy attack, inadvertently or not is popamole.

Therefore, any RPG where you can equip a shield is popamole.

A rare man of refined taste and keen sensibilities, I see.

 

[Ivan]

duh

 

[Clockwork Knight]

"metroidvania" and "soulslike" are used merely to give the reader a clearer idea of what to expect. They're action rpgs and the genre is so varied that it's pointless to squabble over supposed subgenres, especially since developers are constantly mixing up genres and taking ideas from other genres in order to try and make the next big thing.

In short the answer to the poll is yes

 

[Hobo Elf]

For me a Metroid / Metroidvania style game is defined by the power ups you obtain via boss fights and exploration that enhance your combat and exploration capabilities. Unlocking new areas was not necessarily done merely by finding a key to unlock a door but also giving you new means to access otherwise impossible areas (double jump, flight etc. for higher elevations and so on). As such I never really considered Souls to be any sort of Metroidvania. Metroidvanias tend to have more evolution in your playstyle as you gain new powers whereas Souls is a lot more static, unless you are a caster, and even then it doesn't usually come with many new mechanical twists the further in you go.

 

[Valky]

What about open world? That term has been raped in the ass so hard it has lost all meaning in definition. Like the elden ring articles are saying that they are making an "open world" dark souls game for the first time. How was dark souls not already an open world?

 

[Machocruz]

An open world is primarily laid out horizontally and flatly, radiating and traversable in all directions from the center, like our actual world is. Dark Souls is far more cloistered, essentially a series of pathways, which I believe Miyazaki points out in that IGN interview in the Elden Ring thread. It also has significant vertical structuring. No one called games designed with similar level structure 'open world' back in the 80s or 90s.

For me a Metroid / Metroidvania style game is defined by the power ups you obtain via boss fights and exploration that enhance your combat and exploration capabilities. Unlocking new areas was not necessarily done merely by finding a key to unlock a door but also giving you new means to access otherwise impossible areas (double jump, flight etc. for higher elevations and so on). As such I never really considered Souls to be any sort of Metroidvania. Metroidvanias tend to have more evolution in your playstyle as you gain new powers whereas Souls is a lot more static, unless you are a caster, and even then it doesn't usually come with many new mechanical twists the further in you go.

Yeah, the twats at RPS also say that gaining powers are not necessary for a game to be designated as Metroidvania or Metroid-like. Yes, THE standout feature of Metroid when it came out is not necessary...

 

[Whiny-Butthurt-Liberal]

An open world is primarily laid out horizontally and flatly, radiating and traversable in all directions from the center, like our actual world is

Where is the center of our actual world?

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Where is the center of our actual world?

Mappa Mundi of Hereford Cathedral

Tabula Rogeriana

 

[RoSoDude]

The most critical component of a Metroidvania (which these days really just means "Metroid-like") is that the player's progression through the game world is gated by their acquisition of new character abilities and upgrades, not just keys. In this sense, Dark Souls is very obviously not a Metroidvania. The player's mechanics remain constant through the game other than their choice of weapon moveset and potentially some utility spells or equipment perks which do not affect progression, with some very minor potential exceptions. The only difference between the cursed undead you start as and the one you end the game on is their stats and gear, which are mostly relevant only to combat. However, this does not mean there aren't some elements of Metroidvania design in Dark Souls. Ultimately, the progression gates in Metroid-likes are just locks with a different type of key, namely the ability to double jump or go into morph ball or what have you. Hence, while Dark Souls will never provide those same eureka moments of "aha, now I can jump up to that one place!", it does have a similar design around backtracking and making note of locations so you can return to them later once you've acquired the correct key item.

Moreover, Dark Souls is very spiritually in tune with the -vania part of the Metroidvania moniker, to a much greater degree than most Metroid clones on the market. Exploring the game world and uncovering secrets, fighting a large bestiary of enemies and tough bosses, leveling up, finding new gear, and developing a playstyle based on a wide suite of combat options all feels very similar to the latter-day Castlevania games (Igavanias). Obviously the pacing and tone of the games is very different, and Dark Souls introduces some new twists with its death and character upgrade systems, but Dark Souls feels very analogous to Symphony of the Night as the methodical 3D counterpart to its brand of 2D sidescrolling hack 'n' slash jRPG action, in part because it's coming from the same rich design tradition (Dark Souls did not invent this stuff, people). In this vein, Dark Souls would deserve the Metroidvania name as much as a pure Metroid clone like Axiom Verge if the latter part of the genre name were to signify anything at all. But, I know it doesn't in its popular usage, so Dark Souls isn't really a Metroidvania as such.

 

[samuraigaiden]

If it doesn't double jump, it's not a Metroidvania. That simple.

 

[Damned Registrations]

What is the 'vania' part supposed to imply anyways? Castlevania is about as generic as a platformer can get. It's only defining feature is whips. And they weren't even very cool whips except in the 4th game.

 

[Machocruz]

The vania part comes from SoTN's RPG elements and melee weaponry. The term "metroidvania" was meant as a cheeky way to describe Castlevania adopting Metroid's progression, Metroid being used like an adjective. It makes no sense otherwise, unless a game is specifically emulating SoTN or similar Castlevanias.

 

[aweigh]

Lemme blow everyones mind right now, real quick: Zelda 1 was the first open-world game.

That means GTA 5 is a Zelda-clone!

 

[samuraigaiden]

Lemme blow everyones mind right now, real quick: Zelda 1 was the first open-world game.

That means GTA 5 is a Zelda-clone!

Actually, Hydlide predates Zelda by more than a year. Zelda is a Hydlide clone

 

[Grampy_Bone]

I recall Yahtzee of Zero Punctuation making this comparison years ago and honestly the two styles feel very similar to me. The only thing that really separates them is the souls-style of lethal combat, death, and respawn mechanics. Since we're seeing those features migrate into 2D MV games, yeah.

 

[Paper]

I think its closer to the I-IV types of Castlevania tbh: run the level over and over until you have the mechanics down, repeat for next level. In SotN you rarely have to start over before you get to a boss. The "rpg elements" are so poorly balanced, you quickly just turn into an unstoppable god and one-shot all the enemies between save rooms.

 

[Momock]

For me a Metroid / Metroidvania style game is defined by the power ups you obtain via boss fights and exploration that enhance your combat and exploration capabilities. Unlocking new areas was not necessarily done merely by finding a key to unlock a door but also giving you new means to access otherwise impossible areas (double jump, flight etc. for higher elevations and so on). As such I never really considered Souls to be any sort of Metroidvania. Metroidvanias tend to have more evolution in your playstyle as you gain new powers whereas Souls is a lot more static, unless you are a caster, and even then it doesn't usually come with many new mechanical twists the further in you go.

This.

The only metroidesque thing in Dark Souls is that ring that let's you walk into the lava and the interconnected levels. That's it, and it only applies to the first game.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

At the end of the day, it's all pong's clone.

Bip Bop?

 

[TheImplodingVoice]

I've never played it, so I wouldn't know. Kinda wish this forum supported null voting (or abstention, or whatever) 'cause I'm nosy and wanna see the results anyway.

 

[Sigourn]

The vania part comes from SoTN's RPG elements and melee weaponry. The term "metroidvania" was meant as a cheeky way to describe Castlevania adopting Metroid's progression, Metroid being used like an adjective. It makes no sense otherwise, unless a game is specifically emulating SoTN or similar Castlevanias.

This is why I take issue with people describing any game like Metroid a "Metroidvania". No, if it is like Metroid, it is a Metroid-like. If it is like Symphony of the Night, it is a Metroidvania, or Igavania-like.

I also disagree with the idea "Metroidvania" is a genre. The genre is action-platformers. Metroidvania simply describes games like Symphony of the Night. Soulsborne-like describes games that play like Dark Souls, but it isn't a genre.

 

[Viata]

For me, Metroidvania was all about Castlevania games that played like Metroid. Until they decided to call every game a Metroidvania.

 

[TheHeroOfTime]

Is a mistake to define every game that has backtracking as a metroidvania.

 

[Corvinus]

I've seen the term "Metroidvania" mentioned quite a few times now. I'm guessing it is just an empty buzzword, but nevertheless... How would you define it? Please bear in mind that I have only seen a little of Metroid and Castlevania back in the day. Oh and I know that a later Metroid is first person, but that's about it.