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Darklands

Nutria

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I guess I view the fantastical stuff in BB like it is in Darklands. Where its meant to be what people in the 15th century thought was real.

It's way way different. BB's world was created from the ground up as an environment for a game that was mostly about combat. Darklands was created to put you in the shoes of people in medieval Germany. The entire magic system in Darklands is praying to saints and you can go to the library and look up any saint in Darklands and there's a story in itself that fits right into the game. You can look up the author of any alchemical formula in Darklands, it's a real person with a story.

So BB is arguably more polished and balanced at combat, but Darklands opens you up to a way more interesting world because it's the real world.
 

wishbonetail

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Darklands, sounds like Darksouls. Can you dodgeroll in Darklands? I refuse to play games without this incline mechanic.
 

Humbaba

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I find it highly dickish of the game to send you out in the German woods for this starting merchant quest to get that heirloom or whatever, when you're apparently supposed to stay in town for a while and grind bandits. It even tells you not to waste too much time. :rpgcodex:
 

Humbaba

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Wtf "clue" book my ass, more like "highly important info about the game" book, this shit should've been in the manual but noooo those assholes had to sell that shit separately for extra $$$. I never want to hear from oldfags ever again about how the gaming industry was way better back in their day. Thankfully I was born in the right generation and can access that shit for free, heh.
 

Serus

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I feel like King of Dragon Pass is similar in some ways to Darklands, in that it tries to semi-realistically depict the institutions and culture of Iron Age Nordic people (though the cultural and historical boundaries are a little fuzzy), along with a world in which their myths are more-or-less true. Though obviously Darklands has far more historical fidelity.
I agree, the setting itself might not be historical but they tried show a society build on historical... how to say it... principles? More simply put, one that is somewhat similar to real societies on same level of technological development. This a complete different approach of fantasy-like most that take only the superficial elements of an era (usually west europan middle ages) but aren't trying to show anything coherent.


Wtf "clue" book my ass, more like "highly important info about the game" book, this shit should've been in the manual but noooo those assholes had to sell that shit separately for extra $$$. I never want to hear from oldfags ever again about how the gaming industry was way better back in their day. Thankfully I was born in the right generation and can access that shit for free, heh.
Manual itself has over a 100 pages. This was a physical book with additional but not crucial info. This wasn't unheard of in that time. Compare to games with dozens of DLCs, many of them having nothing substantial. If you believe it is the same, what i can tell you, think again.
That doesn't that shady practices didn't take place back then but this is not case.
 

Serus

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darklands is a hardcore historical simulation game where you fight witches and dragons
dragons real
witches real
demons real
No one said it is a "hardcore simulation", it is just is very strongly rooted in historical reality of 15th century Empire. On top of which fantastic elements has been added. It's just Rusty being rusty.
I wouldn't mind if someone attempted a less fantastical Darklands-like game. That would interesting. I played pnp RPGs in historical settings, without fantastic elements at all. I had great fun. It can be done if someone knows what he's doing.
 
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Humbaba

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Manual itself has over a 100 pages. This was a physical book with additional but not crucial info. This wasn't unheard of in that time.
The main manual doesn't include weapon stats or details about profession progression, that's pretty crucial information if you ask me. And that's just one example.

Compare to games with dozens of DLCs, many of them having nothing substantial. If you believe it is the same, what i can tell you, think again.
You're right, it's worse. I'd rather spend money on additional gameplay and content rather than borderline essential information about the game's mechanics, which should've been conveyed in the first place for no additional cost.
 

Butter

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The Might and Magic and Wizardry manuals from the same time as Darklands also don't provide any weapon stats or details about profession progression. The Gold Box manuals are the only ones I can think of that do.
 

Humbaba

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The Might and Magic and Wizardry manuals from the same time as Darklands also don't provide any weapon stats or details about profession progression. The Gold Box manuals are the only ones I can think of that do.
Based Goldbox then.
 

SilentSeeker

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I wouldn't mind if someone attempted a less fantastical Darklands-like game. That would interesting.
I'd also point out there are other interesting times and places being neglected; I've often fantasized about making something Darklands-inspired set on the borders of Sassanid Persia and the Byzantine empire, before and during the rise of Islam and the Arabian empire.

All sorts of fun social and religious aspects to play around with among two great powers, each staggering from the pressures of prolonged war, trying to find other ways to outcompete each other and wondering if there's any truth to the rumors coming up from the south...

Sadly, it's more likely I'll get to fight an actual dragon than play something like that.
 

Serus

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Manual itself has over a 100 pages. This was a physical book with additional but not crucial info. This wasn't unheard of in that time.
The main manual doesn't include weapon stats or details about profession progression, that's pretty crucial information if you ask me. And that's just one example.

Compare to games with dozens of DLCs, many of them having nothing substantial. If you believe it is the same, what i can tell you, think again.
You're right, it's worse. I'd rather spend money on additional gameplay and content rather than borderline essential information about the game's mechanics, which should've been conveyed in the first place for no additional cost.
There is NO additional gameplay content in very many DLC being sold. Or even worse it's of bad quality and very little of it but they are sold as some great new content for idiots to buy. And it gets even worse still because often you don't even get a whole finished game in the first place. That a 100+ page manual doesn't contain everything is bad and selling book with additional info is a poor practice but comparatively not a big deal. However claiming that today's market is better when it comes to selling practices is nonsense.
 

Serus

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Humbaba

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There is NO additional gameplay content in very many DLC being sold.
You're conflating DLC with microtransactions.

Or even worse it's of bad quality and very little of it but they are sold as some great new content for idiots to buy
That a 100+ page manual doesn't contain everything is bad and selling book with additional info is a poor practice but comparatively not a big deal.
Here's the thing, I can do a lot better without bad DLC than I can without important info concerning game mechanics. Ask yourself this: Would you rather pay extra for your car's safety belts or for a shiny new paintjob? Surely you agree that a car not coming with safety belts in the first place is a much bigger issue.

However claiming that today's market is better when it comes to selling practices is nonsense.
It's the truth actually, considering DOS era games were universally designed to be purposefully obscure in order to pad game time and sell strategy guides. Shit like that wouldn't fly these days.
 

FriendlyMerchant

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I feel like King of Dragon Pass is similar in some ways to Darklands, in that it tries to semi-realistically depict the institutions and culture of Iron Age Nordic people (though the cultural and historical boundaries are a little fuzzy), along with a world in which their myths are more-or-less true. Though obviously Darklands has far more historical fidelity.
Except it doesn't. It fails to represent the fact that the ancient nordic people spent most of their time rolling around in mud and practicing sodomy.
 

Humbaba

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Using the forbidden knowledge of the clue book I have now created a much better party that doesn't consist of zoomers exclusively and that actually comes with decent armor. I even started in Austria instead of East Germany, which is a big plus the way I see it.

I am currently running a 30 y/o Knight, whom I bought a medium shield to go with his short sword and who leads the party.

He is accompanied by a 25 y/o Bandit turned Soldier, his job is spotting ambushes out in the wild and being a second melee fighter. Bought him a giant cudgel, in case I come across hard targets.

There's also a 45 y/o Manorial Lord who used to be an Abbott, he' pulling religious duty, though I sorta regret making him that old, he now only has 27 STR/END. Wields a crossbow, sits in the backline, gets rushed by wolves. Should've gotten him a melee weapon.

Alchemist/Healer is a 30 y/o woman, whom I gave 30 CHA because the book said I should keep around pretty girls. Has a bow, also gets rushed by wolves.

Got a Hanse quest in my starting town of Steyr to get a scroll from a crypt, went there and was surprised to find out that this game is actually proto-Baldur's Gate, not proto-Warband. I didn't expect there to be full dungeons, I thought the tactical screen was for battles only. Went looking for the exit, avoiding the skeletons but ended up aggroing all of them at the same time once I found a staircase going up. They swarmed my guys and killed all of em. Luckily, I saved beforehand but I don't appreciate not being able to save while inside the crypt.
 

Nutria

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That sounds like a reasonably good party. Make sure that your high-charisma character is selected as leader when you're trying to talk your way out of things. Building up her speak common skill will be very useful.

Often there's more optimal way to solve a quest using prayer or alchemy, like that one where you triggered the skeletons. You probably could have bypassed the fight if you had the right saint or potion, but of course this early on you're not likely to have those.

Missile weapons are nice, but they're a supplement to your melee weapons, not a replacement. With luck you might kill or seriously wound a couple enemies before they close with you, but don't rely on them too much.
 

DavidBVal

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Wtf "clue" book my ass, more like "highly important info about the game" book, this shit should've been in the manual but noooo those assholes had to sell that shit separately for extra $$$. I never want to hear from oldfags ever again about how the gaming industry was way better back in their day. Thankfully I was born in the right generation and can access that shit for free, heh.

Got your Paradox session pass already? Played all the Steam Games you own? Got your GPU bargain for $600? There's just new ways to milk your money.

Those clue books are fucking beautiful things, I am glad they existed as physical books and were sold separately. Back then we figured things out without a manual anyways.

Just different times? nah, way better than today.
 

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