Official RPG Codex Discord Server

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
    Dismiss Notice

Darkside of Xeen Mike Winterbauer original art

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by mindx2, Dec 26, 2014.

  1. mindx2 Codex Roaming East Coast Reporter Patron

    mindx2
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Messages:
    4,023
    Location:
    Gazing at his slowly refilling game shelves ;-)
    Codex 2012 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire RPG Wokedex Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    I thought this was pretty cool. Winterbauer's Might & Magic art was is some of the best that ever graced a computer game box. His XEEN maps alone are fantastic. I wasn't aware that he also did some of the Wing Commander box art.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Darkside-of...248?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item339a9adc18

    $_57 (1024x762).jpg

    Show Spoiler
    However, no way would I spend $5K for it.... unless I was filthy rich... :oops:
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 23
    ^ Top  
  2. FeelTheRads Arcane Patron

    FeelTheRads
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2008
    Messages:
    13,716
    :salute:

    Fucking cool, man.
     
    ^ Top  
  3. murloc_gypsy Arbiter

    murloc_gypsy
    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2014
    Messages:
    323
    GIEF NAWW

    *reinstalling Xeen
     
    ^ Top  
  4. Luzur Prestigious Gentleman Good Sir

    Luzur
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Messages:
    38,037
    Location:
    Swedish Empire
    Well fuck me, dammit i cant afford that.

    FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

    EDIT: wait, "original painting made in 2014"? geez, had it been an original map art from 1993 i would have considered the price fitting, but now he just took the old map and copied it in a bigger format? pheh, lower the price to 500 USD.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 3
    ^ Top  
  5. <3sRichardSimmons Arcane Patron

    <3sRichardSimmons
    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2011
    Messages:
    3,155
    Location:
    Chicago, IL, Kwa
    Hmmm. My wife IS out of town and my bank account IS flush...
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2014
    ^ Top  
  6. Bubbles I'm forever blowing

    Self-Ejected
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2013
    Messages:
    7,817
    ^ Top  
  7. Morality Games Arcane Patron

    Morality Games
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2013
    Messages:
    5,441
    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Eh, as someone with insider access to the art world, $2000-$3000 dollars would be an appropriate price tag just in terms of the detail that went into the composition; the fact that it is an original piece from the original artist doubles its value.
     
    ^ Top  
  8. mindx2 Codex Roaming East Coast Reporter Patron

    mindx2
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Messages:
    4,023
    Location:
    Gazing at his slowly refilling game shelves ;-)
    Codex 2012 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire RPG Wokedex Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    He does stated he spent 100 hours on it and that's a lot of time invested. My goodness, but it sure is pretty....
     
    ^ Top  
  9. Luzur Prestigious Gentleman Good Sir

    Luzur
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Messages:
    38,037
    Location:
    Swedish Empire
    Well as someone who is deeply invested in collecting EVERYTHING "pre-NWC death" Might and Magic i dont value that as high as those "art people" you talk of, as i said, had it been a piece of art that was part of a gamers contest or a part of the marketing around Darkside of Xeen back in 1993 i would value it high as fuck, but now its just a copy of the game box map made today, even if its by the original artist.

    Kinda hard to explain, but i value the background history of pieces like this as much as i value the MM series.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 4
    ^ Top  
  10. Wizfall Cipher

    Wizfall
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2012
    Messages:
    805
    It's nice indeed
    Lord of Xulima's map looks as good to me though (as well as the map of a blobber indie developer that post here, i forgot his name)
     
    ^ Top  
  11. Morality Games Arcane Patron

    Morality Games
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2013
    Messages:
    5,441
    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Art isn't affected just by demand, though. When it is, it ceases to exist, as happened with the huge decline in sculpture and art technique from the Classic Roman Period through the Dark Ages; if people can't or aren't willing to buy artistic productions at a level that compensates the expense and effort that goes into it, then it ceases to exist and the knowledge of how to create it is lost, little by little generation by generation.

    In an art market context 1992 doesn't really matter so much. This piece has a lofty background because of the artist. A similar piece made by a hobbyist who had no relation to the production of the series would be worth $1000-$2000 just because of its handcrafted-ness. A print or mechanical reproduction would be worth a couple hundred dollars.

    During the Dark Ages, art was affordable only by churches no smaller than an abbey and the high nobility. That grew to include the gentry, guilds, and merchant princes during the Renaissance, finally attaining mass market status in the 19th century with a bourgeois middle class attempting to assert social parity with the old aristocracy. In general, since then, the value of a handcrafted piece of art (even one made by a more or less unknown artist, as most of them are) has been comparable in value to a designer couch.

    Speaking generally, it has to be that way. The value of art is affected by the materials, craftsmanship (effort), and time (production hours) that go into it, including the expense of the education it took to develop the skills to create such a thing. $500 wouldn't even cover the cost of materials and is basically a gift price; you pay him for the materials and he gives you his time and effort for free.

    This would be a very proud piece in a Codexer's man cave to shadow him and his friends during a night of D&D, every bit as valuable to a certain demographic as a designer couch is to a woman trying to impress her social circle and show her cultural distinctiveness.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2014
    ^ Top  
  12. Luzur Prestigious Gentleman Good Sir

    Luzur
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Messages:
    38,037
    Location:
    Swedish Empire
    You could have just made a "Fug U u konw nutting abut arte!!11!" post ya know.

    I have handdrawn game maps before and could prob draw a MM map of my own in that size and paint it if i want one for my wall, so still for me that map isnt as interesting as it could have been if it had been genuine marketing memorabilia from the days when Darkside came out.

    But kudos to the artist for feeling up to do this, and feel free to bid on it, but i as one of the top-five MM elites here on the Codex (i was even elected as representant for the Codex on MMX VIP forums) wont bid on it.
     
    ^ Top  
  13. Morality Games Arcane Patron

    Morality Games
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2013
    Messages:
    5,441
    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    I never miss an opportunity to wax philosophically.

    Of the rest of that stuff, I can only say that the cost to yourself in goods and time that could have been spent freelancing your talents would go to the tune of about a $1000 -- presumedly if you looked hard enough you could have found a couple of websites and other companies whose commissions for fantasy art or fantasy map art would have added up to that amount of money in a comparable number of man hours (you might have to dig for it though). I know of several websites who employ people to create such things on commission -- usually as part-time work. Small practical items that belonged to a man like Elvis (but which mass produced by large corporations) can command comparable prices because humans feel an instinctive attraction to fame and reputation (an instinct exploited by celebrity gossip magazines). There's a fallacy that the fundamental value of art derives from the fame and reputation of the one who produced it or from its influence or placement within the genre it belongs to. Those are the inflationary values of art. The fundamental value of art is the artist's skillfulness, time, and resources and the purchaser's demand for designer items with which to define (and communicate to others) their identity and taste.

    If the consumer's desire to define and communicate their personal identity through art that resonates with them doesn't match the commitment of skillfulness, time, and resources on the part of the artist, then you have an intractable economic crisis where the artist can no longer accrue the revenue he needs to develop, practice, and refine his skills or acquire the tools to use them. Ergo, a Roman Empire to Dark Ages situation.

    One aspect of this crisis is that you *never* have situations where a famous or reputable artist or art exists, because the institutions that train people to create works of such artistry and skill can't economically exist.
     
    ^ Top  
  14. Luzur Prestigious Gentleman Good Sir

    Luzur
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Messages:
    38,037
    Location:
    Swedish Empire
    Look, if you wanna dock just say so and not built these artistical philosophical discussion walls about the value of art and artists, that stuff are better left for Lyric Suite.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  15. Morality Games Arcane Patron

    Morality Games
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2013
    Messages:
    5,441
    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    This economic stuff isn't that arcane.
     
    ^ Top  
  16. DaveO Erudite

    DaveO
    Joined:
    May 30, 2007
    Messages:
    1,185
    $2,000 is still too much to pay just for nostalgia. If I want to look at the maps again, all I have to do is to pull out my boxed copy of the Limited "Dragon" Edition I have a copy of.
     
    ^ Top  
  17. mindx2 Codex Roaming East Coast Reporter Patron

    mindx2
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Messages:
    4,023
    Location:
    Gazing at his slowly refilling game shelves ;-)
    Codex 2012 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire RPG Wokedex Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Which edition? Pictures...
     
    ^ Top  
  18. DaveO Erudite

    DaveO
    Joined:
    May 30, 2007
    Messages:
    1,185
    Sorry, but I have no camera and thus no ability to take a picture. I'm sure either Luzur or Wikipedia will have to suffice.
     
    ^ Top  
  19. made Arcane

    made
    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2006
    Messages:
    5,115
    Location:
    Germany
    No doubt he's put a lot of work into it but the M&M map art always looked pretty lame and childish compared to the likes of Ultima or even Ambermoon. :keepmyjewgold:
     
    ^ Top  
  20. Darth Roxor Prestigious Gentleman Wielder of the Huegpenis

    Darth Roxor
    Joined:
    May 29, 2008
    Messages:
    1,875,378
    Location:
    Djibouti
  21. mindx2 Codex Roaming East Coast Reporter Patron

    mindx2
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Messages:
    4,023
    Location:
    Gazing at his slowly refilling game shelves ;-)
    Codex 2012 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire RPG Wokedex Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    :argh::decline::argh:

    Was it a World of Xeen game and a European release? I've never heard of a "Dragon" edition for a MM game, only Ultima IX.

    Luzur?
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2014
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  22. Luzur Prestigious Gentleman Good Sir

    Luzur
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Messages:
    38,037
    Location:
    Swedish Empire
    i believe it is this one: [​IMG]

    or it could also be the Platinum Edition (i have both), which is kinda the same deal but without the figurine.
     
    ^ Top  
  23. mindx2 Codex Roaming East Coast Reporter Patron

    mindx2
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Messages:
    4,023
    Location:
    Gazing at his slowly refilling game shelves ;-)
    Codex 2012 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire RPG Wokedex Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Where was this released? I have the US Limited Edition with the holo-CDs all the maps, cloth map, etc. but there was never a figurine.
     
    ^ Top  
  24. HiddenX The Elder Spy Patron

    HiddenX
    Joined:
    May 20, 2006
    Messages:
    1,641
    Location:
    Germany
    Divinity: Original Sin Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    ^ Top  

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.