Review Darth Roxor looks at Storm of Zehir @ the Codex

[Morgoth]

SoZ was horrible. I played until I arrived in that town where that dwarf dude from NWN2 was the major... but I got so sick of it. Shitty Overland-Map encounters breaking up the fun, horrible loading times, repetitive fights, unneccessary merchant features and overall lame plot turned me off. I really hope Obsidian now puts NWN2 to rest and moves on with different projects.

 

[Warden]

Sure, sure.. you can disable the random overland encounters wrinkledman.

 

[Darth Roxor]

wtf the gaem sux, I actually need to have ranks in some skillz!

 

[Morgoth]

SoZ was horrible. I played until I arrived in that town where that dwarf dude from NWN2 was the major... but I got so sick of it. Shitty Overland-Map encounters breaking up the fun, horrible loading times, repetitive fights, unneccessary merchant features and overall lame plot turned me off. I really hope Obsidian now puts NWN2 to rest and moves on with different projects.!

Can't agree more.

Thanks for sucking my cock.

 

[AlanC9]

When I finished MotB, while it was a nice experience, I did not wish to replay it.
MotB doesn't offer gameplay differences when you replay it. Yes, it offers story differences, but that's certainly not enough for me to replay it, yet.

Does SoZ realy offer differences on replay. Sure, you can choose to not have the right overland skills, and thus get buried in REs, but that's not exactly a different path.

 

[MetalCraze]

While walking around the overland map, you will notice a large number of various dungeons and dungeon-like areas

a large number? I too can count all fingers on my hands.
Also various doesn't mean varied.

Fortunately, the dungeons are more advanced in the second part

Yes they have one more room now.

But while all the caves, even the smallest ones, are rather unique and memorable

If only by "oh no, not this 3-room shit again"

and it’ll take you many hours to find them all.

What's the point? To see more loading screens?

The fact that there is actual ‘challenge’ in the game is something very good in today’s era of dumbed down console trash that practically gives the player IDDQD.

If only challenge wasn't so boring and copy-pasted.

 

[Darth Roxor]

[save vs will: success] pardon me, but I'm not really in a mood for another pointless rantfest with you, Cryway.

 

[Gromnir]

wtf the gaem sux, I actually need to have ranks in some skillz!

is kinda a misrepresentation. first of all, if you ain't a high dex ranger or rogue, your hide and sneak skillz probably won't be good enough to get you snuck past many overland encounters. when Gromnir first made transition to the sword coast map, our high int rogue/swashbuckler/ranger leader were getting spotted by every monstrous band, enraged worg pack and wyvern flock we ran across. at level 10, with a maxed move silent AND boots of elven kind, Gromnir were able to travel maybe 20 seconds on overland map before getting detected.

second, what if you not want a ranger to be your party leader on the overland map? why should it necessarily have to be a ranger? doesn't work that way in pnp. overland map without a high survival skill and high hide or move silent is probably a nightmare. w/o survival you is moving as if stuck in amber. sure, you can uncover different stuff on overland map with lore, spellcraft, use magic device, etc, but how many players is ever gonna notice such stuff? is a good thread over at the bio boards discussing whether or not soz is playable w/o a Ranger leader. the fact that such a thread exists is probably prima facia evidence o' bad design by soz developers.

oh, and the sword coast encounters is pretty much as terrible and underdeveloped as the saramach static encounters. a hunter's cabin with a cheesed off druid? that is a noteworthy encounter? is one druid and his critters in a two room cabin, no? no dialogue or skillz checks with this one, eh? how is different from the kobold or ogre caves in saramach?

*shrug*

as noted even by roxor, the saramach maps were near universal crap... and that were between 1/3 and 1/2 of game. including battle on the beach, there were a couple o' batari enounters in saramach in which a single skill check might arise, otherwise you simply entered the cave/temple/tower and slaughtered all inhabitants and collected the phat 1007... little different than diablo.

the majority o' sword coast static encounters were no better than the saramach ones. mention the crystal cave is noteworthy because it is an exception. compare to the aforementioned hunter's cabin, or the oh-so-memorable gnoll cave. even major plot encounters that took place in sword coast were often so lame as to elicit a "wtf" from Gromnir. you gotta pivotal meeting in conyberry, but other than jon wright's cartoony villain monologing, followed by an ambush (omg!) you get 0 useful input. the bandit attacks at new leaf? some clown named mikul is the bandit leader, but am not sure why he were even given a name, 'cause 'pon entering the bandit lair we were simply attacked. okie dokie.

...

soz is a deeply flawed game. even folks who like soz should admit that it is broken... and unnecessarily broken at that. even 1 or 2 genuine developed locations woulda' improved soz greatly. not need every static location in the sword coast to equal motb's thaymount... but even ONE such encounter might have made considerable difference. otherwise what do you really get from soz? lots of very brief and largely repetitive combat encounters that serve little purpose save for providing leveling and 1007 gathering opportunities. personally, Gromnir demands more than the diabloesque 1007 & level cycle from his crpgs, but if that is all you genuine crave, then perhaps soz is satisfying enough.


soz does have its good points. the flowers in the openplam bazaar look fantastic. am serious. given how tired and dated the engine is, soz developers manage to create some genuine anesthetic artistry. try and paint the Sistine Chapel ceiling with a bucket o' house paint and a dirty mop? *snort* nwn engine not give the developers much to work with, but they did manage to occasional craft some very pleasing stuff.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Darth Roxor]

is kinda a misrepresentation. first of all, if you ain't a high dex ranger or rogue, your hide and sneak skillz probably won't be good enough to get you snuck past many overland encounters.

Because multi-classing, able learner feat and monks don't exist. You could even take a wizard and give him one level of ranger or rogue and start allocating points in hide, so what's the big deal?

when Gromnir first made transition to the sword coast map, our high int rogue/swashbuckler/ranger leader were getting spotted by every monstrous band, enraged worg pack and wyvern flock we ran across. at level 10, with a maxed move silent AND boots of elven kind, Gromnir were able to travel maybe 20 seconds on overland map before getting detected.

This is interesting. I'm doing a second playthrough now, and during both of them, I was detected by random encounters only at levels 4-6, when my hide wasn't high enough.

second, what if you not want a ranger to be your party leader on the overland map? why should it necessarily have to be a ranger?

Again, multiclassing, able learner, monk, rogue.

overland map without a high survival skill and high hide or move silent is probably a nightmare.

I suppose playing Fallout with 1 intelligence is also a nightmare.

sure, you can uncover different stuff on overland map with lore, spellcraft, use magic device, etc, but how many players is ever gonna notice such stuff?

Uh... players who have ranks in such skills maybe? Tyranny of choices, you can't uncover everything and have a superhero character with 200 in all skills!

a hunter's cabin with a cheesed off druid? that is a noteworthy encounter? is one druid and his critters in a two room cabin, no? no dialogue or skillz checks with this one, eh? how is different from the kobold or ogre caves in saramach?

Because it was made well. I just liked it. A crazy druid of an evil hunter god yelling 'and you call yourself hunters?' was actually kind of fun, and it was different, because kobolds or ogres in caves are just generic, while you don't see rampaging druids in every cave.

you gotta pivotal meeting in conyberry, but other than jon wright's cartoony villain monologing, followed by an ambush (omg!) you get 0 useful input.

well, I admit that the ambush was painfully obvious.

 

[Warden]

Does SoZ realy offer differences on replay.

Of course it does AlanC9, you can do the areas in a totally different order thus having a totally different gameplay experience. Experimenting with other class combinations.. it's so much fun.
This is the main strength of this type of games.
Bioware fans can't really understand that though.

 

[Jaime Lannister]

He is one of the only Codexers to admit that Bioware makes good games.

:shock:

 

[Gromnir]

so you can have a wizard leader... as long as he also has 1 level of ranger? why?

as for your being/not being detected, there are a number of factors that adjust hide/move silent. dex score is the most obvious, but there are also racial modifiers. regardless, speaking from experience, our 10th level character ( human 2 rogue/3 swashbuckler/5 ranger with boots of elvenkind, able learner feat and maxed move silent and survival) were getting spotted constantly on the sword coast map... 'least until we hit level 12, and even then the dire wolves would still occasional spot us until we reached level 13... but that were acceptable and believable.

most of your other responses is repetitious nonsense about able learner and forcing people to multi with ranger. again, is not that game rewards the ranger, but it punishes those that do not. is no tyranny of choices if you is pretty much gimping self if you don't have a ranger or multi-ranger combo. is bad design. benefits o' ranger far outweigh benefits o' choosing something else.

"Because it was made well. I just liked it. A crazy druid of an evil hunter god yelling 'and you call yourself hunters?' was actually kind of fun, and it was different, because kobolds or ogres in caves are just generic, while you don't see rampaging druids in every cave. "

*chuckle*

whatever. is no functional different. is a brief combat encounter with 0 player involvement save for combat, and the combat tactics required by player were no different than all those batari encounters. 1 shaman and a handful of melee batari. 1 druid and some dire critters. you got some chuckle value from an encounter with 0 dialogue options and skill checks. great. it tickled your funny bone so that IS a positive, but there weren't no great writing or design.

am not sure what you thinks you saw in soz, but clearly you is willful ignoring some of the flaws.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Volourn]

"But while all the caves, even the smallest ones, are rather unique and memorable"

HAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHG
HAHAHAH

HAHAHA
HAHAHAHA

HAHAHAH
HAHAHA

HAHAHAH

HAHAHA

HAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAH

HAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHG
HAHAHAH

HAHAHA
HAHAHAHA

HAHAHAH
HAHAHA

HAHAHAH

HAHAHA

HAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAH

HAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

A Gray Orc Cleric/Monk as the Overland boy is godlike. I have NEVER fought a random encounter I didn't want. And I don't even raise the Hide/Move Silently combo, because I can just outrun the foos. And I rather they get scared and stay away from me caravans.

 

[Gromnir]

Does SoZ realy offer differences on replay.

Of course it does AlanC9, you can do the areas in a totally different order thus having a totally different gameplay experience. Experimenting with other class combinations.. it's so much fun.
This is the main strength of this type of games.
Bioware fans can't really understand that though.

...

am not picking up on any irony... so am assuming you is being serious.

do gnoll cave before the malerite hermit cave on play through #2 yields genuine unique gameplay experience?

there is some small variations in gameplay based on how you build your character. play a ranger character with giants as a favored enemy and you get a couple o' different dialog opportunities throughout entirety of a game lasting multiple 10s of hours. maybe on first playthrough you not take opportunity to use a spellcraft maxed character as your dialogue monkey. were a few special spellcraft options that garnered an extra 500 to 100 exp points. is such stuff offering genuine replayability?

for the uber d&d geek, such as Gromnir, it may be interesting to see if a 6/7/5 earth gensai fighter/weapon master/nw9 is more effective than an 4/6/8 assimar fighter/paladin/divine champion, but am not sure if we could argue that such opportunities is offering legit replayability for the majority o' players.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Warden]

"But while all the caves, even the smallest ones, are rather unique and memorable"

*has a nervous breakdown*

As much as I hate to comment on anything a stinky homophobe has written...

It is true. Areas are small but cute and well done.
Although the copy pasted taverns and churches are a big no no in my book.

 

[Warden]

am not picking up on any irony... so am assuming you is being serious.

do gnoll cave before the malerite hermit cave on play through #2 yields genuine unique gameplay experience?



HA! Good Fun!

Yes Gromnir it does yield unique gameplay experience. We probably play games for different reasons. But on my next playthrough I want to do better than on the first (I limit the number of rests, deaths, retreats..). It can be challenging and fun.. Of course you can choose to complain that every cave doesn't have a deeep dark background story or that every NPC doesn't talk till dawn about her mental issues..

 

[Volourn]

"stinky homophobe"

Huh?



"It is true. Areas are small but cute and well done."

No. No. No. No. No.

No. No. No. No. No.

No. No. No. No. No.

No. No. No. No. No.

No. No. No. No. No.

No. No. No. No. No.

No. No. No. No. No.

No. No. No. No. No.

No. No. No. No. No.

 

[Warden]

"stinky homophobe"

Huh?

Volly, that was for Darthy.. The part in asterisks was for you.

 

[Gromnir]

"Of course you can choose to complain that every cave doesn't have a deeep dark background story or that every NPC doesn't talk till dawn about her mental issues.."

go easy on the strawman. amn not sure anybody asked for every cave to have "a deeep and dark background story." in point o' fact, our suggestion were that even single encounter comparable to motb's thaymount woulda' made a big difference. 1 v. every. hmmmm.

as for the npcs... Gromnir knew from the start that the joinables would be similar to bg joinables; little more than their character record sheet. no biggie. that being said, none of the other npcs were memorable neither. volo had some quirky moments. sa'sani were the only other npc that got genuine development, and perhaps we can blame her lack o' character on the fact that she were part cold-blooded snake, eh?

again, is not that every character need a tragic past that is fully and tediously developed, but the writers ain't really doing their job if they cannot get the player to care 'bout anybody in the game. like or despise or fear or whatever... were 0 emotional impact in soz.

replayability o' soz is similar to diablo. no character or quest differences, but you does get a chance to build your character different... and do stuff in a slightly different order. groovy.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Volourn]

"The part in asterisks was for you."

Huh? Your asterisks are apprantly not appearing on my screen.

 

[Darth Roxor]

as for your being/not being detected, there are a number of factors that adjust hide/move silent. dex score is the most obvious, but there are also racial modifiers. regardless, speaking from experience, our 10th level character ( human 2 rogue/3 swashbuckler/5 ranger with boots of elvenkind, able learner feat and maxed move silent and survival) were getting spotted constantly on the sword coast map... 'least until we hit level 12, and even then the dire wolves would still occasional spot us until we reached level 13... but that were acceptable and believable.

I almost never get spotted with my half-elf ranger, halfling rogue, pureblood ranger after I have boots of elvenkind and like 10 ranks in hide. I only got spotted occasionally by wild animals, which I could easily avoid anyway by either outrunning or by wild empathy and by scripted encounters that always detect you, such as the snaketongue bandits or the enraged worgs.

most of your other responses is repetitious nonsense about able learner and forcing people to multi with ranger. again, is not that game rewards the ranger, but it punishes those that do not. is no tyranny of choices if you is pretty much gimping self if you don't have a ranger or multi-ranger combo. is bad design. benefits o' ranger far outweigh benefits o' choosing something else.

Are you fucking retarded? Here's a list of classes that have either move silently or hide or survival: barbarian, bard, druid, monk, ranger, rogue, spirit shaman.
But yeah, I suppose you just HAVE to multiclass with ranger, because without that, you can't leave The Vigilant, amirite?

Also, the fact that there's a ranger cohort right there in the starting city that you can hire for laughable money is also absolutely irrelevant. YOU JUST HAVE TO MULTICLASS WITH A RANGER!!1111

whatever. is no functional different. is a brief combat encounter with 0 player involvement save for combat, and the combat tactics required by player were no different than all those batari encounters. 1 shaman and a handful of melee batari. 1 druid and some dire critters. you got some chuckle value from an encounter with 0 dialogue options and skill checks. great. it tickled your funny bone so that IS a positive, but there weren't no great writing or design.

No design? Batiri are friggin goblins, you see goblins running around wanting to kill humans in every godfuckingdamn fantasy scenario, while a druid going off his nut is not something you see everyday

am not sure what you thinks you saw in soz, but clearly you is willful ignoring some of the flaws.

Oh, I'm terribly sorry that I didn't acknowledge the fact that you have to use skills on the overland map and can't find EVERYTHING!! on a single playthrough as a flaw. Well, damn, ok, let me rehabilitate and write an Oblivion review next time where I'll write how cool it is to join every possible guild without limitations on level 2.

replayability o' soz is similar to diablo. no character or quest differences

Blatant lies are blatant.

 

[Volourn]

"Blatant lies are blatant."

The biggest blantant lie is that SOZ even approaches below par. It is the very definition of SOZZY.

 

[Gromnir]

you can tell us again and again how you never get spotted, but it not change fact that Gromnir, playing with a human character at level 10 with maxed move silent got spotted very often on sword coast map... pre level 12/13. clearly it ain't simply a matter o' dumping a few points into hide or move silent. you better max move silent or hide with a character who probable has dex as their prime attribute, or has a racial boost to move silent or hide... such as your halfling did. a cross-class wizard ain't gonna get it done, even with able learner.

"Are you fucking retarded? Here's a list of classes that have either move silently or hide or survival"

clearly you is a bit slow. is rarely making sense to multiclass between those classes you list. need survival AND hide or move silent... retard. you did halfling rogue? good for you. must have been a wonderful slog going at snails pace with low 1/2 survival skill.... 'less you actual did take one or two levels o' ranger. am not sure how many more times you want us to say. you wanna gimp your leader just to make a viable for soz? bad design. is a handful o' builds that genuine make sense for a soz party leader, and most all is gonna include some levels o' ranger. THAT is bad design.

is a ranger cohort available early in game? yeah. what is your point. availability of ranger somehow diminishes the fact that a ranger leader is virtual indispensable as a party leader? seems more likely to prove that fact than to diminish. right off the bat the obsidians provide a healer cohort and a ranger cohort. why? 'cause those two types o' characters were near essential and the obsidians could probable foresee that a typical 4 person party might not be having enough healers or rangers.


"No design? Batiri are friggin goblins, you see goblins running around wanting to kill humans in every godfuckingdamn fantasy scenario, while a druid going off his nut is not something you see everyday"

...

you is damaged. really. the fact that the monster attacking you is labeled "malarite druid" instead of "batari shaman" made a genuine difference? is a 15 second long combat encounter for chrissakes. no doubt you is one o' those fools who actually falls for the "new and improved" shtick that marketing monkeys use to sell same old products to naive consumers. tell you what, has developers rename some o' those kobld cave dwellers... leave everything else same, but call 'em Giant Mutant Space Geckos. surely that would make such encounters better, no? yutz.

you keeps fibbing and fabricating and obscuring, but have gall to suggest that Gromnir is telling lies? HA! yeah, explain again how great the sword coast static encounters is. HA! no doubt the aptly named gnoll cave were thrilling... for you. heck, the forktongue bandit cave musta' had you peeing self with joy. you finally find the bandit hideout near new leaf and upon entering hideout you is swarmed by enemies... but the developers added an arcane nexus and a bunch o' snake statuary, so it were kewl and different, right?

*shrug*

am not sure who you is trying to convince that soz is well-designed. maybe you likes the 1007 and level cycle... ain't nothing wrong with that as it were quite successful with diablo and bg. have lots o' relative brief and uninspired static locations, interspersed with swarms o' exp fodder... is exact how diablo did.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Darth Roxor]

you can tell us again and again how you never get spotted, but it not change fact that Gromnir, playing with a human character at level 10 with maxed move silent got spotted very often on sword coast map... pre level 12/13. clearly it ain't simply a matter o' dumping a few points into hide or move silent. you better max move silent or hide with a character who probable has dex as their prime attribute, or has a racial boost to move silent or hide... such as your halfling did. a cross-class wizard ain't gonna get it done, even with able learner.

Just as you can keep saying that you got detected all the time, so I guess that's an endless loop.

clearly you is a bit slow. is rarely making sense to multiclass between those classes you list.

Rarely making sense? Oh yeah, sure, and the 'arcane trickster', 'eldritch knight', 'harper agent' and 'arcane archer' prestige classes are out there just for the lulz, huh?

need survival AND hide or move silent... retard.

Allow me to quote Vaarna_Aarne here:

A Gray Orc Cleric/Monk as the Overland boy is godlike. I have NEVER fought a random encounter I didn't want. And I don't even raise the Hide/Move Silently combo, because I can just outrun the foos. And I rather they get scared and stay away from me caravans.

you did halfling rogue? good for you. must have been a wonderful slog going at snails pace with low 1/2 survival skill.... 'less you actual did take one or two levels o' ranger. am not sure how many more times you want us to say. you wanna gimp your leader just to make a viable for soz? bad design. is a handful o' builds that genuine make sense for a soz party leader, and most all is gonna include some levels o' ranger. THAT is bad design.

The rogue was in the same party as the ranger, I didn't multiclass him, I was switching from time to time to get different events on the overland map. When going through plains or roads, survival hardly matters.
I can also hardly see how taking one fucking level in one other class to get benefits is 'gimping'.

is a ranger cohort available early in game? yeah. what is your point. availability of ranger somehow diminishes the fact that a ranger leader is virtual indispensable as a party leader? seems more likely to prove that fact than to diminish. right off the bat the obsidians provide a healer cohort and a ranger cohort. why? 'cause those two types o' characters were near essential and the obsidians could probable foresee that a typical 4 person party might not be having enough healers or rangers.

I really hate to use this phrase, but it works great right now
FLIP-FLOP
First you rant how it is absolutely and totally needed to create a ranger or multiclass a party member to give him one level of ranger, and then suddenly the fact that you actually DON'T have to is bad too. Right. Makes sense. Of course.
Oh, I see that the fact that you also need a healer is an unforgivable crime against the players. Makes sense too.

you is damaged.

Oh the sweet irony.

the fact that the monster attacking you is labeled "malarite druid" instead of "batari shaman" made a genuine difference? is a 15 second long combat encounter for chrissakes. no doubt you is one o' those fools who actually falls for the "new and improved" shtick that marketing monkeys use to sell same old products to naive consumers. tell you what, has developers rename some o' those kobld cave dwellers... leave everything else same, but call 'em Giant Mutant Space Geckos. surely that would make such encounters better, no? yutz.

There's a difference between creativity and going over the top. Giant Mutant Space Geckos, as you put it, are over the top. They don't fit. Kobolds are not over the top but they are also generic. A rampaging druid is neither generic nor over the top, therefore he's done well.

you keeps fibbing and fabricating and obscuring, but have gall to suggest that Gromnir is telling lies?

Obscuring and fabricating? r00fles.

HA! yeah, explain again how great the sword coast static encounters is. HA! no doubt the aptly named gnoll cave were thrilling... for you. heck, the forktongue bandit cave musta' had you peeing self with joy. you finally find the bandit hideout near new leaf and upon entering hideout you is swarmed by enemies... but the developers added an arcane nexus and a bunch o' snake statuary, so it were kewl and different, right?

Wow, 'you is damaged' I might say. After having played a party of do-gooders first, and another party of almost everyone being x/evil, I can easily say that the gameplay experience is different in the quest compartment, and hey, I thought the fact that quests are different means more in an RPG than different combat... right?

am not sure who you is trying to convince that soz is well-designed. maybe you likes the 1007 and level cycle... ain't nothing wrong with that as it were quite successful with diablo and bg. have lots o' relative brief and uninspired static locations, interspersed with swarms o' exp fodder... is exact how diablo did.

I'm not trying to convince anyone about anything. What I'm doing is eliminating retarded, pseudo criticism that might put off people who may be interested in the game.