Game News Dead State, DoubleBear's Zombie RPG, To Go Kickstarter

[villain of the story]

Sorry guys but wouldn't all of the logic you are using against Brian Bitsoda work on Banner Saga? Someone announces a cel shaded turn based game based on console jrpg games and you cum all over yourselves. Then a *real* developer who was a lead writer/designer on Torn ffs asks to get his project funded and you start becoming skeptical all of a sudden. Not only did he work at BIS as a lead writer for Torn, he also worked at Troika on Vtm Bloodlines and at Obsidian on NWN2 expansions (MOTB anyone?) and Alpha Brotocol. The guy has a SERIOUS history of work unlike those banner jokers. Both he and Annie are also known to our community. Annie did design and writing for SoZ, Alpha Brotocol, and MOTB ffs. And you guys are all, "I don't know. It might be vaporware. What have they done for us lately.". True enough, but apply that same logic to your cel shaded console jrpg inspired masterpiece which you guys are just throwing your money at. Now I see why everyone wants to jump on the bandwagon ASAP. Brian and Annie have no choice to put their hat in the ring with those 3 unknowns who may or may not have worked for Biowhore, a company which of course is a darling of the codex all of a sudden. How many of you had heard of those 3 guys before yesterday? And who hasn't heard of Brian and Annie?

Yeah that's why they have had zero progress.

Look at it from the other direciton: Was it Urquhart, MCA or Sawyer who admitted that even after several game projects to their belt, their biggest issue with development cycles is still management and efficiency? And you would sooner trust two individual off-shoots of Obsidian who never had any managerial experience to do all of that better* than Obsidian now?

I don't think so.

(*: and they have to do better; you can't have an error margin as individuals with limited budget)

As for Banner Saga, I already think it's most likely to be Bioware Jr. with shitty derptastic romances and whatnot with a simplified TB combat for console kids. Name-dropping TB combat, KoDP, FFT are all dandy but name-dropping is the most common way of bullshitting in the industry and is sort of a delusional wishful thinking. Nonetheless, they have a working prototype of sorts, they have their animations rolling (and why do you keep saying cell-shaded when the game doesn't even have any 3D to it?) and an exquisite Disney style art direction to boot. That's good enough for me to make a humble contribution. If and when they explain how game actually works instead of name-dropping and it turns out to be impressive, I might chip in more.

especially since the way it looks like, if DS fails their kickstarter, the project will likely die forever, so it's better to be carefull.

Yeah, that too. Apart from the demoralising impact on Mitsodas, I don't think anyone would take a second look again if they were uninterested the first time.

 

[jewboy]

I just call anything that looks like a cartoon cel-shaded. Sorry. I'm not an artist at all. Although I would love to be. So it has a Disney cartoon look then.

 

[PorkaMorka]

I dunno, I think this is worse than Banner Saga, although I'm not going to give any money to either project. Banner Saga's timing is really bad, but they do have some footage that shows off what they're going for. The video convinced me that with $100,000 they can probably succeed in making a shitty flash tactics game with some cut scenes involving decently drawn but somewhat faggy looking cartoon vikings.

Dead State on the other hand, just seems like the classic indie RPG that is far too ambitious for the size of the team they have and the level of commitment of that team. They would need a really well done presentation to convince me that $50,000 or $100,000 is going change that. How many people do they have working on the game? How much time are they prepared to spend on it? How good are they at making the Age of Decadence engine do what they want? Why should I believe that they'll have a finished game by the time that $50,000 runs out?

 

[shihonage]

In completely unrelated news, I may be changing Shelter into Fallout With Zombies.

 

[Roguey]

Heh, so the "Make our tools for us for free!" thing didn't work, now considering the "Give us money so we can pay people to make our tools!" and this after nearly three years of development with nothing to show for it except a few hudless screens and some weapon stats.

I wouldn't trust these people with money. Might suddenly find out some characters are unzombifiable 'cause Brian's savin' 'em for Dead State 2.

 

[Metro]

Keep in mind Banner Saga is releasing a free multiplayer combat client soon, too. So at least there's something to test/play.

 

[Livonya]

I think they should do it now, and quickly.

In a month there are going to be a ton of games on kickstarter.

Only a small handful that go off soon will be able to ride the coat tails of Double Fine and InXile.

Dead State sounds interesting, and I would certainly donate at the lowest donator position on principle alone, which is what I did with Banner Saga. $15 is nothing. And at the end of a month if it looks more promising then I can always bump that up.

I didn't kickstart Double Fine as I don't care for adventure games all that much, but now I kind of regret it.

At this point I will probably gladly go in at the lowest level on most turn based games. The worst case scenario being I wasted $15? Life will go on. The best case scenario there are more interesting turn based games for me to play. That is a gamble I will take.

 

[quasimodo]

Pretty much anything TB will get some support from me. I'll just use some of the money I didn't spend on ME2&3, DA2, Skyrim, FO3, AP, FO3NV, DS3, DiV2, Risen, TW2, KoA and all the other FPP, OTS RT RPGs being made these days.

 

[Castanova]

In the end, both Banner Saga and DS are going to be potential long-shots. It boils down to whether you think it's worth the risk.

Personally, I don't particularly care for Brian's work and Annie's posts on this forum were always incredibly irritating so I'll skip their Kickstarter effort. I put the bare minimum ($10) into Banner Saga. It sounds good in theory.

 

[SlavemasterT]

I don't see why Kickstarter is being hailed as some kind of revolution in indie gaming when Mount&Blade essentially had a better version of it years ago where you could buy the functioning beta at a discounted price and get the finished product at the end of development. I still think of that $14 as some of the best I spent on a game.

On the other hand, if you feel like paying for a nascent product without any guarantee of getting anything in return, like Trash said people should feel free - but don't complain about the uncertainty of the system when there are other, proven alternatives available.

 

[Excidium]

Best of luck to them.

 

[20 Eyes]

I don't see why Kickstarter is being hailed as some kind of revolution in indie gaming when Mount&Blade essentially had a better version of it years ago where you could buy the functioning beta at a discounted price and get the finished product at the end of development. I still think of that $14 as some of the best I spent on a game.

I love M&B but it's development (or lack thereof) is a bit disappointing. The list of possible updates was pretty awesome sounding, iirc. And we have almost exactly the same game we bought, with very little progress. Kinda like a predecessor to the Terraria incident. Is this a new business model?

 

[Stabwound]

I don't see why Kickstarter is being hailed as some kind of revolution in indie gaming when Mount&Blade essentially had a better version of it years ago where you could buy the functioning beta at a discounted price and get the finished product at the end of development. I still think of that $14 as some of the best I spent on a game.

On the other hand, if you feel like paying for a nascent product without any guarantee of getting anything in return, like Trash said people should feel free - but don't complain about the uncertainty of the system when there are other, proven alternatives available.

Which is exactly why Wasteland 2 is the only Kickstarter I've ever donated to. The man has a reputation and I truly believe he'll deliver on the end product.

However, something like Dead State, which seems to be dead in the water (hurrr, pun)? I wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole. Maybe if they had something to show for it, and you got access to weekly beta builds, sure. But the fact that it was basically vaporware until the kickstarter craze makes it extremely sketchy.

 

[Livonya]

But Mount & Blade was well worth the money. It is true that not much improved, but it was still a bargain... I paid like $10 for it or something. A steal. I had so much fun with that game.

AncientWanker's Lord of the Rings mod for Mount & Blade was so good. A lot of fun. Plus there were a lot of other fun mods.

I always thought Die By The Sword was an awesome game (though it did cause all sorts of hand pain!) and Mount & Blade was the first game since then that I really just enjoyed the action fighting.

Mount & Blade and Dwarf Fortress are both interesting examples of outside of the box funding, and both seem like great deals to me... Dwarf Fortress especially since you don't actually have to fund it if you don't want to.

Kickstarter is just another option. The more options for developers the better.

Tomorrow I am going to see John Carter at my bargain Tuesday showing in 2D for $6. I know it is 2 hours that I won't get back, but I enjoyed the books as a kid. If I get a burrito afterwards then that is another $7 I will never see.

Clearly I can afford to give Mount & Blade $10, Dwarf Fortress some money ever year, $10 for Banner Saga, $120 for Wasteland 2, and whatever the lowest entry is for Dead State.

Games are such a great expenditure when you consider the time to cost. The only entertainment that really rivals that are actual books.

It just doesn't seem worth the worry when the entry fee is so low. If the lowest entry was $25 or $50, but $10 to $15?

I made the mistake of buying Dragon Age and never got past the first town as I hated the game so much... now that was a waste of money, and that was the last new game I bought.

 

[Brayko]

I will need some videos and heaps more info before I would even consider.

 

[almondblight]

The last forum update was in November, so I don't think a four month lull should really be considered "oh, it was dead and now they just want some money." And for those of you saying they should show something - Brian is now asking what you guys want to be shown. So, go over to the forums and tell them.

Is there a risk here? Sure, but there's a risk from any Kickstarter, and it didn't stop people from going nuts over Wasteland 2 when we had almost nothing to go on. Dead State has been worked on for a long time, we have a lot of info about the mechanics, some screenshots, they're using the AoD engine and the AoD team is working with them. Sure it could be horrible, but so could Wasteland 2 or the Banner Saga.

There's always reasons to be cautious about something like Kickstarter (though if it's $10-15 it's not bad), but depending on the details/gameplay vids, this might end up being a lot more promising than Wasteland 2 or Banner Saga.

 

[Elhoim]

You know what is really funny? We started talking with Brian about Kickstarter in September 2011. I even have the mail where he mentioned it, and I was like "WTF is that?". Then, we are now jumping the "bandwagon".

Oh, well, continue the bitching

 

[Johannes]

Yeah, it's a shame that games like M&B and DF didn't/don't really notably improve over time at all. It's still the same basic shit as when I first stumbled upon them, many years ago (didn't play the 2D DF)... Still enjoyable but damn, what the hell did they work all those years for, compared to the time they had some enjoyable basics down? Neither game can be called polished either.


And I'd think DS is ok to take some time waiting now, start around when WL and BS are finishing at the earliest. I don't think there's THAT many TB RPGs in development that could clutter the market too much at that point, even if there's probably a ton of games of other genres in by then (probably much sooner too).

 

[Marsal]

You know what is really funny? We started talking with Brian about Kickstarter in September 2011. I even have the mail where he mentioned it, and I was like "WTF is that?". Then, we are now jumping the "bandwagon".

Oh, well, continue the bitching

 

[hiver]

You know what is really funny? We started talking with Brian about Kickstarter in September 2011. I even have the mail where he mentioned it, and I was like "WTF is that?". Then, we are now jumping the "bandwagon".

Oh, well, continue the bitching

I would surely support Doublebear project if it ever comes to kickstarter.

I think the biggest problem was that they disappeared without much explanation. At least thats what i hear because i havent been following closely.

 

[hiver]

In the end, both Banner Saga and DS are going to be potential long-shots. It boils down to whether you think it's worth the risk.

Personally, I don't particularly care for Brian's work and Annie's posts on this forum were always incredibly irritating so I'll skip their Kickstarter effort. I put the bare minimum ($10) into Banner Saga. It sounds good in theory.

personally, fuck you and your entitlement for devs making posts you would prefer. asshole.

 

[CrustyBot]

I like Dead State, I've been quite interested in it and I've enjoyed Brian Mitsoda's work on Bloodlines too. But I can't help but think that trying to catch on the Kickstarter bandwagon right now is not the best idea. Sure, it's popular right now, but for that exact reason, that means there's less potential donors since the competition is quite lively.

Don't get me wrong, the prospect of THREE turn based RPGs with genuine potential from talented groups of people makes me hard. I've pledged to Wasteland 2 (though I haven't kicked in a Codex donation yet), I'll donate to Banner Saga and I'll donate to this too, but not everybody can afford to donate a sizeable contribution to 2-3 projects within the space of a month or two. Let alone Double Fine's adventure game which "kickstarted" it all.

My reservations notwithstanding, I truly hope that Brian and Annie find the funds they need for this project.

Hell, I hope all of these promising Kickstarter projects find the funds they need to pump out awesome games. Say what you will about the specifics of each project and bitch about how it won't be perfect but as far as I'm concerned we've got at current count, 3 turn based RPGs from people with either experience at making great games, and/or the willingness to do so. That's no matter how you slice it.



(inb4 AoD Kickstarter announcement next Thursday)

 

[Frian Bargo]

In the end, both Banner Saga and DS are going to be potential long-shots. It boils down to whether you think it's worth the risk.

Personally, I don't particularly care for Brian's work and Annie's posts on this forum were always incredibly irritating so I'll skip their Kickstarter effort. I put the bare minimum ($10) into Banner Saga. It sounds good in theory.

personally, fuck you and your entitlement for devs making posts you would prefer. asshole.

Come on hiver, there's no need to insult Castanova. He's certainly entitled to his own opinion.

 

[hiver]

There wont be an AoD kickstarter and thats the right decision, i think. Though a project like that for a second game... that could happen, possibly. Just sayin... Developers of the retro-classic hit Age of decadence and all that.

 

[Spectacle]

I love M&B but it's development (or lack thereof) is a bit disappointing. The list of possible updates was pretty awesome sounding, iirc. And we have almost exactly the same game we bought, with very little progress. Kinda like a predecessor to the Terraria incident. Is this a new business model?

Really? Did you buy M&B 6 months before the release or something? In the Mount&Blade I bought you could either fight in the arena or travel around fighting random bandits. The final version had a dynamic war system with 5 different factions, siege warfare, rebellions, as well as tons of characters, quests and loot. Sure, it could have been even better, but you can't claim there was no progress during the betas.

That funding model isn't going to work for every game though. M&B is essentially about the combat, even when it was just Zendar surrounded by bandits, it was still loads of fun to play. Wasteland 2 for example on the other hand will focus on exploration and plot, and that's not going to be anywhere near as fun to play while most of the content is unfinished.