Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Death Stranding Director's Cut - Kojima's post-apocalyptic deliveryman simulator

Makabb

Arcane
Shitposter Bethestard
Joined
Sep 19, 2014
Messages
11,753
The first Metal Gear was released in 1987, so if it wasn't the first stealth game, it was surely one of the first.
 

just

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 6, 2019
Messages
1,298
just start making movies kojima damn
guy is touching himself too hard lately
 

Grauken

Gourd vibes only
Patron
Joined
Mar 22, 2013
Messages
12,787
The first Metal Gear was released in 1987, so if it wasn't the first stealth game, it was surely one of the first.

Not by a long shot, Castle Wolfenstein is a stealth game from 1981 and I wouldn't be surprised if there are even earlier examples
 

Grauken

Gourd vibes only
Patron
Joined
Mar 22, 2013
Messages
12,787
For Japs the western industry didn’t exist until very recently.

You mean like most of their early PC and console games were either direct clones of western games or copied most of their elements
 

Grauken

Gourd vibes only
Patron
Joined
Mar 22, 2013
Messages
12,787
The first Metal Gear was released in 1987, so if it wasn't the first stealth game, it was surely one of the first.

Not by a long shot, Castle Wolfenstein is a stealth game from 1981 and I wouldn't be surprised if there are even earlier examples
Metal Gear is the Doom of stealth genre.

There's no Doom of the stealth genre, otherwise stealth games would be more popular and its own massive genre and not continually confused or sorted into other genres
 

Cross

Arcane
Joined
Oct 14, 2017
Messages
2,983
The first Metal Gear was released in 1987, so if it wasn't the first stealth game, it was surely one of the first.

Not by a long shot, Castle Wolfenstein is a stealth game from 1981 and I wouldn't be surprised if there are even earlier examples
Metal Gear is the Doom of stealth genre.
Doom was so influential that first-person shooters were called 'Doom clones' for years.

Metal Gear inspired a grand total of zero copycats.
 
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
4,014
https://www.gameinformer.com/interv...a-answers-our-questions-about-death-stranding

Sam has a lot to manage – his health, his equipment, etc. A lot of people turn to games to escape these kinds of responsibilities. How do you approach taking mundane maintenance tasks and putting them into a game so they don’t feel like work?

Previously, in design, you had to create the rule because you couldn’t do the realism, right? In our everyday lives, there are so many mechanisms we have to work through, as you say, and we have to take the balance of what we do, how we maintain ourselves, and how we live. So I wanted to free the game design concept that we had to live by because we didn’t have the technology to do so in the past. We always created a rule, like the life bar is like this, and one hit takes away this much health. I wanted to add the real essence in Death Stranding.

For instance, in any game, you could carry as many items as you want – even in Metal Gear, it was unlimited. Of course, you can’t do it in real life, right? You have to select one bottle when you climb a mountain. That’s why I put it in; a lot of games have aborted that kind of rule. This time, if you’re in the river, you can drift away – and that’s in real life as well. So that’s the gimmick and mechanism I kind of recreated, where other games – and even my games before – had to deform in a way.

But the other thing about it is that you can go anywhere in the world. It’s open-world. In the past, even if games are “open-world,” there are limitations where you can’t go further. Like, they created valleys where you can’t go. But in this game, you can go anywhere. You set routes, and you want to know what goes on beyond. In this game, I think you will not understand if I just say this, but once you start playing the game, just walking in that world is really fun. What I realized is, when I monitor playtests – even the staff's – they don’t get it at first. But when they really start playing, just walking is really fun in the space.

And now everyone will say, “Oh, it’s a walking simulator!”

It’s the same as when I first brought out a stealth game. If 100 people play it and 100 people say it’s fun, it means the genre or the game already exists. But this is a new genre – same as stealth the first time, there will be people who don’t get it. It will take time for the real evaluations to come in.

Have you explained Death Stranding to anyone and had it click immediately, instead of taking a while to understand?

Yes, there were some people. Especially creators were quite quick to click. Like [director] George Miller, who is kind of my mentor – my god. In 2017, I went to Australia. I only had a trailer, and I also explained verbally to him. George Miller said, “In all aspects, you are correct. Mathematically, psychologically, physically, philosophically.” He kind of started to draw a diagram, he has this theory, so he said, “What you’re trying to do is correct.” I should have recorded that! I should have sent it to the staff! That was really a happy moment.

Maybe not people in the game industry, but musicians, directors, and creators. So, that’s why I tend to kind of overlap with musicians and film directors more than the game industry people – because they kind of tend to synthesize with me in that way and click faster.
The fact that he thinks inventory/encumbrance limits or open-world exploration are groundbreaking things never before seen, or that he implies he created the stealth genre, makes him sound more deluded than Molyneux.

I can only think of a handful of games where you actually have to think about weight distribution, (and usually a encumbrance systems works like Mr. Creosote with just two states: perfectly fine, and can't move at all) which is part of inventory system, and those are usually mech games. How much of a factor that'll end up being, I don't know, but it sounds like weighing your character more one side than the other will have an effect on your moment and balance.

His take on open world exploration seems pretty fresh too, as there's usually little to no thought put into the exploring the world aspect of games that have you walking around worlds all the time. I'm honestly a bit surprised we haven't seen things this game is doing sooner, especially in relation to your footing on different kinds of terrain given that that kind of thing has been big in football games since like the 2K games started.
 

PrettyDeadman

Guest
The first Metal Gear was released in 1987, so if it wasn't the first stealth game, it was surely one of the first.

Not by a long shot, Castle Wolfenstein is a stealth game from 1981 and I wouldn't be surprised if there are even earlier examples
Metal Gear is the Doom of stealth genre.
Doom was so influential that first-person shooters were called 'Doom clones' for years.

Metal Gear inspired a grand total of zero copycats.
It inspired stealth genre.
As far as Doomclones go, today many people can name Doom predecessors (Wolfenstein 3D), but as far as Metal Gear predecessors go - I doubt those amiga games are known by many people except most autistic gamers.
What other person could be credited more as one of the creators of stealth genre? Kojima is both one of the most famous figures in the genre and with one of the longest careers (working on significant stealth franchises from 1987)...
 
Last edited by a moderator:

PrettyDeadman

Guest
The first Metal Gear was released in 1987, so if it wasn't the first stealth game, it was surely one of the first.

Not by a long shot, Castle Wolfenstein is a stealth game from 1981 and I wouldn't be surprised if there are even earlier examples
Metal Gear is the Doom of stealth genre.

There's no Doom of the stealth genre, otherwise stealth games would be more popular and its own massive genre and not continually confused or sorted into other genres
There is Doom of the stealth genre, it's called Metal Gear Solid (1998). It's literally one of the most popular and well known games and game series EVER...
crpg games are also confused and sorted into other genres (probably even more so than stealth games), doesn't mean there is no massive crpg genre...
Notable stealth game series include:
Thief
Metal Gear
Splinter Cell
Hitman
Tenchu
Big critical success, millions of sales, normals are familiar with those games.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

HEKE

Educated
Joined
Dec 6, 2017
Messages
82
In his stealth game to hide bodies you eject them into stratosphere on unlimited supply of tiny helium balloons and to stealth you hide inside a cartoon box. I'm sure the survival sim mechanics will be equally creative.

Can't wait going full Bear Grylls and drinking my own piss to survive!
 

Tehdagah

Arcane
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Messages
9,236
I can only think of a handful of games where you actually have to think about weight distribution, (and usually a encumbrance systems works like Mr. Creosote with just two states: perfectly fine, and can't move at all) which is part of inventory system, and those are usually mech games. How much of a factor that'll end up being, I don't know, but it sounds like weighing your character more one side than the other will have an effect on your moment and balance.

His take on open world exploration seems pretty fresh too, as there's usually little to no thought put into the exploring the world aspect of games that have you walking around worlds all the time. I'm honestly a bit surprised we haven't seen things this game is doing sooner, especially in relation to your footing on different kinds of terrain given that that kind of thing has been big in football games since like the 2K games started.
He still said Death Stranding will be the first game ever with a seamless open world and limited inventory.

For instance, in any game, you could carry as many items as you want – even in Metal Gear, it was unlimited.

It’s open-world. In the past, even if games are “open-world,” there are limitations where you can’t go further. Like, they created valleys where you can’t go. But in this game, you can go anywhere.
Or he is bad at expressing himself.

Also, another thing is that Kojima just can't balance complex systems. He put so many effort in MGS4 creating a lot weapons/tech and in the end most of them were useless.
 

Terenty

Liturgist
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
1,367
Im sure as hell looking forward to playing this game more than your stale outer worlds, vampires and cyberpunks
 

sullynathan

Arcane
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Messages
6,473
Location
Not Europe
The first Metal Gear was released in 1987, so if it wasn't the first stealth game, it was surely one of the first.

Not by a long shot, Castle Wolfenstein is a stealth game from 1981 and I wouldn't be surprised if there are even earlier examples
Metal Gear is the Doom of stealth genre.
Doom was so influential that first-person shooters were called 'Doom clones' for years.

Metal Gear inspired a grand total of zero copycats.
While I wouldn't call splinter cell a clone of MGS, it was influenced by it.

So the second most popular stealth franchise with the second most recognizable stealth character was influenced by mgs
 

Black

Arcane
Joined
May 8, 2007
Messages
1,872,592
EEnHc7oXUAExVOa.jpg

EEnHc7nXkAYVLbe.jpg

Hacks gonna hack.
Is Kojima playing 4D chess or he has become a Hollywood sodomite? I don't know right now.
:shredder:

SbJySOJ.jpg

Here you can see a jew and a guy who made a star trek movie or something.
 

Cross

Arcane
Joined
Oct 14, 2017
Messages
2,983
The first Metal Gear was released in 1987, so if it wasn't the first stealth game, it was surely one of the first.

Not by a long shot, Castle Wolfenstein is a stealth game from 1981 and I wouldn't be surprised if there are even earlier examples
Metal Gear is the Doom of stealth genre.
Doom was so influential that first-person shooters were called 'Doom clones' for years.

Metal Gear inspired a grand total of zero copycats.
While I wouldn't call splinter cell a clone of MGS, it was influenced by it.

So the second most popular stealth franchise with the second most recognizable stealth character was influenced by mgs
The decision to create Splinter Cell was influenced by Ubisoft seeing the massive success of MGS and deciding they wanted in on that.

The actual game design of Splinter Cell however wasn't influenced by MGS. Instead, Splinter Cell borrowed Thief's emphasis on shadow and sound and implemented a free third-person camera and intuitive control scheme, as opposed to MGS' top-down view and unconventional controls. Splinter Cell's pure stealth approach is also nothing like MGS which likes to throw tons of unavoidable combat setpieces at the player. AI in Splinter Cell is more Thief-like, as opposed to MGS' very arcadey evasion/alert system.

Also, please learn how to read. The discussion was about Metal Gear, not Metal Gear Solid. As far as I know, nobody has made even a single game influenced by the former, much less so many games that it could be classified as 'the Doom of stealth genre'.
 
Last edited:

PrettyDeadman

Guest
The first Metal Gear was released in 1987, so if it wasn't the first stealth game, it was surely one of the first.

Not by a long shot, Castle Wolfenstein is a stealth game from 1981 and I wouldn't be surprised if there are even earlier examples
Metal Gear is the Doom of stealth genre.
Doom was so influential that first-person shooters were called 'Doom clones' for years.

Metal Gear inspired a grand total of zero copycats.
While I wouldn't call splinter cell a clone of MGS, it was influenced by it.

So the second most popular stealth franchise with the second most recognizable stealth character was influenced by mgs
The decision to create Splinter Cell was influenced by Ubisoft seeing the massive success of MGS and deciding they wanted in on that.

The actual game design of Splinter Cell however wasn't influenced by MGS. Instead, Splinter Cell borrowed Thief's emphasis on shadow and sound and implemented a free third-person camera and intuitive control scheme, as opposed to MGS' top-down view and unconventional controls. Splinter Cell's pure stealth approach is also nothing like MGS which likes to throw tons of unavoidable combat setpieces at the player. AI in Splinter Cell is more Thief-like, as opposed to MGS' very arcadey evasion/alert system.

Also, please learn how to read. The discussion was about Metal Gear, not Metal Gear Solid. As far as I know, nobody has made even a single game influenced by the former, much less so many games that it could be classified as 'the Doom of stealth genre'.
Metal Gear Solid was inspired by Metal Gear.
maxresdefault.jpg
 

DJOGamer PT

Arcane
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
7,357
Location
Lusitânia
The first Metal Gear was released in 1987, so if it wasn't the first stealth game, it was surely one of the first.

Not by a long shot, Castle Wolfenstein is a stealth game from 1981 and I wouldn't be surprised if there are even earlier examples

But Castle Wolfenstein was mainly just played with the idea of avoiding detection, since in that game the PC isn't a whimp and possess a deadly arsenal (you even start the game with a gun).
While Metal Gear pretty much defined the principal design concepts that make up a stealth game:
-the player is fragile, underequipped, bad in combat, versatile and hard to detect
-the enemy is good in combat, nearsigthed, there's alot of them, has some kind of attention deficit and a patrol pattern

same losers that will demean the kojima will turn around and play survival shit

Subnautica and Factorio are damn great games.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom