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Arkane Deathloop - first-person action game from Arkane set on a time loop island

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by Siel, Jun 10, 2019.

  1. thesheeep Arcane Patron

    thesheeep
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    Codex 2012 Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Well, there is no fun because there is no challenge.
    There is no challenge, because the AI is braindead.

    Where exactly is the fun here?
    Doing 1v1 PvP? Okay, maybe, but this is sold primarily as a SP game with some MP component (somewhat similar to Dark Souls in this regard with the "invasions").
    And also bear in mind the price point, which is just awkwardly high for what is on offer.
     
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  2. LESS T_T Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    LESS T_T
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    Codex 2014
    Note that game page on Steam client underrepresent the numbers for some reasons. (This happens to all newly-released games I think. Probably it shows outdated numbers.) You can check more up-to-date numbers on global stats page.
    https://steamcommunity.com/stats/1252330/achievements

    "Start the tutorial" thing is 91.4%, "complete the tutorial" is 55.5% according to that.

    ---

    Also Bakaba's storytime on how they ditched parrying and embraced the company's old fetish - kicking:



     
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  3. Zombra An iron rock in the river of blood and evil Patron

    Zombra
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    Why is challenge fun? Because you learn how to do something and then exercise your ability to do it. But this game isn't about learning how to land sweet headshots or duck behind waist-high cover, and it never was. It's about learning the environment, figuring out the story, and building a better mousetrap.

    Jesus man, look at your own review list. Was Darkside Detective "challenging"? Was Subnautica? Freaking Stardew Valley? No, these games are fun for other reasons than pew pew luk how leet I am. Same here.
     
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  4. thesheeep Arcane Patron

    thesheeep
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    Codex 2012 Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Right, and that lasts for 10 hours, tops.
    Unless you are into MP, which I'm not.

    It's not a shitty game per se, but for that price it's fucking ridiculous.

    Nice. Some profile stalking to try and attempt some arguments.
    Not gonna lie, that's pretty pathetic.
    You want my Twitter, too?

    Obviously, different games are played for different reasons. Something like Stardew Valley is played for relaxation. A point & click for story/humor.
    Subnautica can actually be mildly challenging at times (or I just suck at it), but in the end it's more about relaxation and exploration as well. For me, anyway.

    But I don't see anything in Deathloop that would be relaxing more than it would be boring.
    The story is practically nonexistent - those little scraps fed to you didn't make me want to play more, that's for sure.
    The characters are almost Youngblood levels of annoying cringe.
    Remains only the core of the game - and that is just woefully inadequate, mostly due to the AI.

    It's a game with an identity crisis if you ask me. You give me FPS mechanics, I sure as hell expect some challenge appropriate for an FPS.
    Either that or a misunderstood game looking for an audience and not finding it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021
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  5. Immortal Arcane

    Immortal
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    "The AI is supposed to be pants on head retarded. It doesn't matter if it's engaging or offers challenge .. it's ~immersive~"

    Well Gee! I guess we can use that logic for every game.
    Problem solved forever.

    "It doesn't matter if Choomba's run in circles around you clipping on walls, people suffering from Cyberpsychosis would totally do that!"

    This is literally the "It's not a bug, it's a feature" but unironically.
    Pure unfiltered cope. :lol:

    Shills opinions are so worthless.
     
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  6. copebot Learned

    copebot
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    If they were untrained normal people, they would not charge your position repeatedly (even with melee weapons) under fire, they would not take explosions near them in stride (they'd panic, run away, or hit the ground). They would definitely not shoot accurately at you under stress. The AI in this game behaves a little like the AI in an old game like Goldeneye 64 in that they just repeatedly charge at you while you shoot them as they round the corners, filing into buildings one by one.

    I have a 2080 and a 10900K and I get the stutter, but only after an hour, after which it degrades to the point to which it's unplayable. It starts off performing perfectly and starts to get bad around the 1 hour mark before resetting it. I haven't tried the mouse polling rate fix yet, but I did try the various vsync / FPS limit suggestions and that didn't work for me. With the frame limiter on it doesn't really get the GPU hot and the CPU's barely doing anything. It's just a bug issue and not related to it being actually taxing on hardware.
     
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  7. Child of Malkav Arbiter

    Child of Malkav
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  8. Zombra An iron rock in the river of blood and evil Patron

    Zombra
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    No argument here.

    Relax, bro. Just refuting your previous assertion that challenge and fun are always the same thing. They're not. Since you agree with me on this, it's weird that you made a statement to the contrary.

    It's not my fault I remembered you write many excellent reviews. I would be delighted to subscribe to your Twitter :)

    OK, now you're making valid arguments. Obviously if you hate the story and characters, unraveling that story isn't going to be fun for you.
     
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  9. Generic-Giant-Spider Arcane

    Generic-Giant-Spider
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    Do the characters shoot sideways?
     
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  10. LarryTyphoid Learned

    LarryTyphoid
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    Will Arkane ever make a game with good writing? After playing Dishonored 2 I willingly fell into the loving embrace of Thief Deadly Shadows. I don't care if it has tiny levels or bad controls, at least the dialogue isn't a non-stop barrage of eye-roll inducing trash. That being said I can't see Deathloop's writing being worse than Dishonored's "bro the noblewoman blinded a little boy cause he was late with the tea!!! oh my goodness the absolute injustice, im going to faint!!"
     
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  11. kangaxx Learned

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  12. samuraigaiden Cipher

    samuraigaiden
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    RPG Wokedex
    PREY 2017 was also too easy and that didn't stop it from being great.
     
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  13. rusty_shackleford Arcane

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  14. samuraigaiden Cipher

    samuraigaiden
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    RoSoDude what's your take on this game?
     
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  15. RoSoDude Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    RoSoDude
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    Not played, and won't in the near future (haven't had much time for gaming lately and have other stuff on my plate first).

    My impressions from early previews:
    • Permadeath roguelite-ish structure is a godsend. Prey - Mooncrash benefitted enormously in encouraging adaptive play by adopting this kind of structure. Savescummers BTFO
    • Loop concept could be interesting, I like the idea of having to figure out a Groundhog's Day scenario. Again, much like Mooncrash which I loved (at least the first half before meta progression makes you overpowered)
    • Looks like it takes a lot of mechanical inspiration from Dishonored's action design (blink, contextual takedowns, movement, dual wielding), which is okay. I have a lot of problems with Dishonored but most of them relate to systems design
    • Greater focus on gun combat is a good thing, Prey didn't have enough guns by half and Dishonored is split between stealth and combat in a way that doesn't really engage either fully
    • Hope it's not just a mindless power fantasy by way of low difficulty, cheesy player abilities, nonexistent resource management etc. Need reasons to be creative, I don't care for sandboxes
    • Invasion multiplayer could be good or bad, no strong opinions here. I appreciate the attempt to innovate by integrating PvP in a very personal manner
    • Lots of asset reuse from Dishonored and Prey? Not a big deal but kinda makes me wonder about the development, what the scope of the project really is
    My impressions based on footage and discussion around release:
    • Uh oh, this AI looks legit braindead. Getting funneled in corridors, struggling to navigate around geometry, not using their brandished weapons, no peripheral vision for stealth detection. Not good. Points to mindless power fantasy. Why bother using the vending machines to trip your enemies when a shotgun blast to the chest does equally well?
    • There appears to be no inventory or resource management. Former I can abide as it's a more action-focused game (Thief gets by without it just fine), but the latter puts me off. Limiting resources is a straightforward design technique to enforce creative problem solving. If you can just hack every device for free, what's stopping you? Mooncrash was marvelous in the beginning because you had to use all of your scavenged tools as it was key to your survival (instead of the quickload key). Together with easy AI... not good
    • I've heard the game has what amounts to a 6-hour tutorial and """dynamic difficulty""" that increases the challenge as you eliminate more targets, or something. Maybe this alleviates the prior issues? Poses a decent challenge? It's a big shame the game holds your hand for that long, especially for Arkane. For everything I can criticize about their AAA releases with Bethesda, they've always granted the player agency very quickly
    • Upgrade systems seem convoluted and more based on finding stuff than choosing how you want to play. I will reserve judgment because I really don't know the details but I will say I hope it's not like Dishonored's RPG layer
    • Level design looks Arkane standard from a pure geometry standpoint (lots of potential for expressive traversal, multiple vantage points, loops and branches, the works) which is great, but how those levels are populated with challenges is equally important and I'm a bit skeptical
    So yeah, I'm interested in playing it eventually but I'm not seeing what's got every journo and gamedev twitter person gushing over it. I mean, the core concept (Groundhog's Day assassination puzzle with creative combat mechanics and surprise invasions) absolutely appeals to me and I generally want to like Arkane's games, but I'm getting Dishonored vibes in a bad way. Someone let me know if I'm off base with my impressions.

    EDIT: Deathloop doesn't look like it's an Immersive Sim to me, for the record. Doesn't seem all that interested in simulated systems-driven gameplay. If Deathloop is an Immersive Sim then so is Dying Light (don't get me wrong I actually quite like DL, but it's just an action game same as Dark Messiah).
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2021
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  16. <3sRichardSimmons Arcane Patron

    <3sRichardSimmons
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    Yes, as I said earlier in my initial impressions, Deathloop is absolutely not an immersive sim (it makes this abundantly obvious in the first 15 minutes), and anyone calling it one can safely be ignored as someone who doesn’t know what the fuck they’re talking about.
     
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  17. Zombra An iron rock in the river of blood and evil Patron

    Zombra
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    RoSoDude Your "power fantasy" fears are well founded. I don't even have super powers yet and I feel mostly like I am dicking around just exploring the levels with little to no fear of being stopped. I felt the same way about the Dishonoreds, flying around looking for the most hilarious way to kill a dood. Fun, but not challenging.

    Upgrade systems aren't convoluted. You're just plugging materia into your body and also into your guns. The upgrade crystals are scattered around like gold coins when you kill doods. It's a little Borderlands actually. Same with the color coded gun tiers. (One nice thing about the guns, though - a tier 2 gun actually looks better than a tier 1. Different model and everything.)

    Generally your impressions are on the mark. You got a B+ without even studying.
     
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  18. Trithne Augur

    Trithne
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    3 hour tutorial, which is still offensively long. 3 hours is how much time I've had to play it since it cane out, so I've just reached the point that the game actually opens up, but have yet to experience such.

    The lack of peripheral vision is fucking real though. Two people standing next to each other but they don't notice you stabbing the other. Stabbing is also completely silent for some reason, it's actually kinda eerie.
     
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  19. Zombra An iron rock in the river of blood and evil Patron

    Zombra
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    Not to apologize for weak design, but again I like that the enemies aren't super perceptive. If they see someone walking around at the edge of their vision, they assume it's one of their drunk asshole friends.

    I kind of hate stealth games where you sneak into a room with 6 people stomping around and they all scream, WAIT! I heard a footstep from somewhere!
     
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  20. Generic-Giant-Spider Arcane

    Generic-Giant-Spider
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    Did anyone else have Dishonored frame to them initially as being a spiritual successor to Thief then they played Dishonored and never wanted to hunt down someone and murder them more in their life?
     
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  21. Trithne Augur

    Trithne
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    Anyone who told you it was a spiritual successor to Thief was lying to you. It's Whalepunk Deus Ex.
     
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  22. SharkClub Cipher

    SharkClub
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    Strap Yourselves In
    This game is okay. I've played a little past the first loop tutorial for now.

    Some posters on here and on /v/ would have you believe it's a George Floyd nig worship American religion simulator but the characters being black is so innocuous that it barely makes any difference and you could probably literally replace them with white peepo and you wouldn't notice, unless the game manages to take a huge left turn at some point and it becomes some black lives matter propaganda, which I'm pretty sure at this point that it won't.

    The art style and visuals are aesthetically pleasing and I like the look of the weapons. The sound effects and music are also pretty good and stylistically fits the art direction.

    My main concern is the difficulty and the AI which has been mentioned a lot already, dynamic difficulty is bad in every game that I've played that has had it and because this game has dynamic difficulty, the no savegames/continuous play thing AND has to be playable on a playstation gamepad at 30fps I think to Arkane that probably translated to "this has to be incredibly easy and dumb".

    As I said I've only played just past the end of the first loop tutorial so far so maybe it ramps up but I've basically been popping heads for free and if you just pick a good vantage point and have a decent weapon and can aim at all you can pick everyone off with ease, I don't really feel like this strategy will become harder to pull off even if the difficulty starts increasing. There are also health pickups literally everywhere and health recharging stations too. I never even came close to dying from combat with the enemies.

    The only time I have died so far was
    Show Spoiler
    when I walked into some scripted event gas trap puzzle that it took me a few moments too long to figure out how to solve, so I suffocated like a pleb.


    I'm definitely getting some Mooncrash vibes as far as the structure of the gameplay goes, I think if you're not concerned about the game not being challenging enough and you liked Mooncrash you will probably find this enjoyable. I did like Mooncrash decently enough myself, so yeah, it's okay.

    I'll post more as I play it. I'm willing to give this game more than its fair chance as personally I've gotten significant enjoyment out of every previous Arkane release.
     
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  23. Ash Arcane

    Ash
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    Ummm, yes it did. Fuck you. :) It was one huge factor of just a few that prevented it from being a classic.

    Wrong. It's Whalepunk Deus Ex: Invisible War. Because that is the level of banal boring basic sellout shit it is. Harvey Smith has a knack for such decline. I fucking wish it were whalepunk Deus Ex.

    Wait, "Whalepunk"? That's the dumbest shit I ever heard. :lol:
    Oh right, I forgot the tech in Dishonored is based on whale harvesting or something like that. Very meh.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2021
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  24. SharkClub Cipher

    SharkClub
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    Strap Yourselves In
    I've actually completed a playthrough of DXIW semi-recently and I can tell you definitively that there is no Arkane game that even comes close (except maybe Dark Messiah) to the levels of bad that game plunges to with its limited options/imsim design/scope. Even Deathloop has more imsim DNA than Invisible War and BioShock which are just linear story based shooters with sandbox-style imsim gameplay set to an absolute minimum.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2021
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  25. LarryTyphoid Learned

    LarryTyphoid
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    One thing Invisible War avoids that infests a few of Arkane's games is the "body awareness" meme. In Dark Messiah you can't even fucking crouch without the camera glitching into your own body, and the finisher animations are so shoddy it looks like they came out of a mod. Dishonored 1 avoided this and Dishonored 2 mostly did the same but they added a bunch of retarded immersion breaking animations like Corvo/Emily putting their hands on a door before peeking through the hole. Yeah, can't just let me peek through the fucking hole, I gotta watch a little gay flourish first. I think Harvey Smith was also the one responsible for Thief 3's body awareness which was almost as bad as Dark Messiah's.

    The best first person games give the player an invisible body, first person body awareness is either janky and shitty looking or turns your entire game into a context-sensitive cutscene ala Thi4f and the upcoming System Shock remake.
     
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