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Arkane Deathloop - first-person action game from Arkane set on a time loop island

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by Siel, Jun 10, 2019.

  1. SharkClub Cipher

    SharkClub
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    Strap Yourselves In
    Having replayed Thief Deadly Shadows recently as well I can say without a doubt that the body simulator movement in that is by far the worst in any game I've played, and that includes Dark Messiah and even Thi4f. You are correct that DXIW avoided that and it made the game slightly more bearable as a result, though.
     
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  2. Riskbreaker Guest

    Riskbreaker
    Aye, the "realistic" movement and body awareness in T3 are considerably worse, clunkier than in Dark Messiah. Hell, just try to remember that pagan camp mission with all the narrow ledges & sheit, you almost get the feeling that it was designed with a different movement model in mind.
     
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  3. RoSoDude Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    RoSoDude
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    It was also notably bad in Arx Fatalis, because every 1st person action must have an associated 3rd person animation (confirmed when a dialogue bugged out and left me in the 3rd person camera view after resuming player character control). You can't lean when holding a weapon or when crouched because there's would be no animation for such in those two states. You can't cast spells while crouching either, exiting crouch has a laborious wait appended to it, you're slowed when landing from a jump as your legs adjust, and sneaking while holding a weapon appears to do nothing. All in all, movement is uniquely unpleasant in Arx even after you come to grips with it. Still the best Arkane game by far.

    It's worth noting that the Dark Engine games (Thief, System Shock 2) also put a lot of effort into body awareness, but in a much smarter way that suited the strengths of the 1st person perspective. Player movement is affected by physics, so you have momentum and will experience gravity while on slopes. You can feel the limits of your body when you lean up against surfaces (useful for listening through doors in Thief), and doors will collide with your body when you open them. To help sell the illusion further, headbob is synced with your footstep sounds, so you get a good sense of how you're traversing a ground surface (particularly important in Thief). Even the first System Shock had a physics-based character controller that, while a little bit wonky at times, made crouching and leaning around corners "feel" very grounded even as you're contorting yourself at odd angles. You don't need to see your body interacting with the world because you can feel it via the way you move through it.

    It is possible to do the full body awareness thing right complete with 1st person animations; see Mirror's Edge, Dying Light, or even Prey. But all of these games make concessions to make the perspective feel natural and unobtrusive, as evidenced by how ridiculous the player character looks when modders hack the camera to go into 3rd person.
     
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  4. LarryTyphoid Learned

    LarryTyphoid
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    I still have yet to play Arx, disappointing to hear that it also has bad movement. They kept trying to reinvent the FPP wheel and kept ending up with games that control worse than Ultima Underworld or System Shock. Talk about the lack of mouselook all day but those games don't have the jerky movement of early Arkane or the context-sensitive animations of modern Arkane (and every other modern first person game). The Dark Engine just might have been the absolute peak of first person design for the reasons you put out.

    Looking at Deathloop gameplay, Arkane is still going for the Dishonored 2 brand of "invisible body but loads of faggy animations". I don't know who convinced these devs that this shit was "immersive". And they still have that HORRIBLE, GODAWFUL vignette whenever you crouch. I don't recall anyone ever mentioning it in its thread but Dishonored 2 having that terrible vignette and not letting you disable it puts that game straight into the garbage for me.
     
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  5. Immortal Arcane

    Immortal
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    RoSoDude Question, since your opinion seems to be quite :obviously: around here.

    Have you experienced or ever found first person combat that you genuinely enjoyed or found engaging / well design?
    The question is mainly targeted at Melee combat over shooting (FPS).


    Follow up - Would you consider Kingdom Come: Deliverance well done or needlessly gamey and complex?

    EDIT
    Based on the above post, I would assume Dying Light was considered well done by you.. but does that translate beyond killing hoards of zombies?
     
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  6. Butter Arcane

    Butter
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    That vignette made me immediately stop playing Dishonored 2, but someone linked a mod that removes it.

    https://www.nexusmods.com/dishonored2/mods/2
     
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  7. LarryTyphoid Learned

    LarryTyphoid
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    I saw that mod, but I continued to play without it because the retarded devs should have put it in the game. If they're not going to implement something so simple then that must be their intended experience, and who am I to question the paragons of game design perfection over at Arkane Studios?

    I even saw some tard on the Steam forums saying "without the vignette you wouldn't know you were crouching!" as if the change in perspective and the weapons being held differently isn't enough for the player's tiny pea brain. All in all, I'm pretty glad I didn't pay for DH2.
     
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  8. LarryTyphoid Learned

    LarryTyphoid
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    The very first piece of in-game dialogue I noticed in this video was a guard screaming "Shit! Fuck! Shick-fut!"
    :hahano:
     
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  9. JDR13 Arcane

    JDR13
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    The movement isn't great that's true, but it's still a really good game. A must-play for fans of UU.
     
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  10. Lutte Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    Lutte
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    [​IMG]
    +
    [​IMG]
    (dishonored 1 is separated into two builds in steam, RHCP is the russian/slavic/mongoloid region.)
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    wew lads, it's defo not gonna peak as high as the other games. Only death of the outsider did worse. Consider the heavily marketed multiplayer aspect DoA, reviewers are already saying it's hard to invade and the player base is going to dwindle to nothing soon.
     
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  11. Fedora Master Arcane Patron Edgy

    Fedora Master
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    A company that hasn't produced a good game since 2006 has produced another failure, WHAT A SURPRISE
     
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  12. SharkClub Cipher

    SharkClub
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    Strap Yourselves In
    Lmao the pvp is cancerous as fuck. I just got invaded by some Siberian with 800 ping who unironically had an XxXnameXxX warping around and getting the instakill backstab animation on me. They literally just run at you spamming blink and going for drop attacks with the machete and that's it. I unironically lost even though I had 3 lives and they had 1, and all three of the deaths were to melee. I'm guessing they can also heal using the shitloads of health pickups scattered all over the map as well? Either that or they had a regenerating health thing equipped because I definitely used enough ammo and got enough hitmarkers to kill him like twice over.

    Was this Arkane's plan? Make the normal game stupid easy and rely on retarded peer2peer with slavs and brazilians to slot in a massive player-based difficulty spike in the middle of the level?
     
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  13. throwaway69420 Learned

    throwaway69420
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    I thought the game looked shitty, but this thread has convinced me it's super shitty! Arkane wins again.
     
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  14. <3sRichardSimmons Arcane Patron

    <3sRichardSimmons
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    Ash
    It's pretty clear that the invasion aspect wasn't given much attention, and should have been scrapped pretty early in development. If Immortal is correct that due to connectivity/latency issues the blink+machete combo is the only viable Julianna playstyle currently then it excuses the invaders somewhat, but certainly not Arkane. I find it hard to believe that they were unaware of its flaws during internal playtesting.
     
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  15. orcinator Liturgist

    orcinator
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    Haha, I predicted the rising of the Sun!
     
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  16. SharkClub Cipher

    SharkClub
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    Strap Yourselves In
    I've been playing some games as Julianna now and I'll say this, the invader being able to heal is extremely stupid. The whole "oh but colt has 3 lives" thing literally never actually comes into play with the balance of the encounter, because as soon as you kill him once he takes his time teleporting back a ways and you have all the time in the world to run off to an infinite heal station and back to your camping spot. It's three full health 1v1s where Julianna has the defender's advantage every time, and is almost entirely reliant on ping, not a 3v1.

    There are some extremely questionable decisions for this asymmetric multiplayer that Arkane have made. You can turn your grenades into mines in this game so as Julianna your best bet is to place mines in retarded little overdetailed niches near doorways and corners, and once you've placed four of them you can go and pick up extras around the map. On one of the defense points there are like 10 npc mines lying around out in the open that you can just run up to and disarm and re-use them yourself. So you can stack like 14 mines around every corner, ledge, doorway, etc. and just play around them at the defense point. You can also pick up turrets as Julianna and place them wherever you like and there is one nearby that defense point. There is also an infinite health refill station inside that very same area that you can control.

    So yeah, when you're not playing as Colt and being invaded by some 800 ping lag warper who teleports behind you and gets the machete backstab one shot, you can play as Julianna and either do some lag warp machete gameplay of your own or take part in some of the most horrendous abuse of PvE mines/turrets/npc allies of any game I've ever played. I've been playing like this as Julianna for like 10 matches now.

    When I go back to continuing my singleplayer play through as Colt there is absolutely no way I'm playing with the online component turned on, I'll play single player vs easy as fuck AI Julianna rather than volunteering for contracting cancer.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021
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  17. LarryTyphoid Learned

    LarryTyphoid
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    Does this game actually have woke shit in it or was that just the vibe people got from the advertising? I feel like Synthetic Man would've pointed it out since he's typically vocal about that kind of thing. Even if it doesn't, I can't exactly blame people for thinking it'd be woke considering Arkane's track record. Although, the characters being black does fit the 1970s blaxplotation thing I've seen mentioned in this thread, as opposed to the tokenism you usually see from SJW devs.
     
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  18. SharkClub Cipher

    SharkClub
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    Aside from that one "Eat the rich" thing in the pre order bonus advertising which is quite obviously tongue in cheek, I haven't noticed any actual wokeshit. To me, if anything, the game is anti-degeneracy because Colt is the only person trying to break the loop where all these hedonist scumbags do nothing but fuck, party, drink and eat candy. But yeah I'm not very far at all into the story with Colt so can't say for sure on that front.

    A lot of people got upset purely because black people bad and the criticism of the game on that front has never been any deeper than that. But then all these sites giving it 10/10 on the other hand are likely influenced by prospective sjw points for saying black people good. People should be more critical of the games journalists rather than the game when it comes to anything like that.
     
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  19. LarryTyphoid Learned

    LarryTyphoid
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    So Deathloop's plot is about a black man's lone righteous crusade against the hair-hatted hooligans? Sounds pretty based. I wonder if Julianna gets into hair-yanking fights with other women at KFC.
     
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  20. RoSoDude Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    RoSoDude
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    Yeah, it's true that I am a big fan of Dying Light. It's a mashup of every AAA cliche of its time (open world, zombies, climbing, crafting, leveled loot, talent tree grinding) but executed in a coherent package that's actually rather good. The movement (which is mostly just auto-mantling on steroids) and combat mechanics (think Dark Messiah with more polish and more CQC moves) are the meat of why it's so entertaining, on top of the fact that the devs put actual effort into creating challenging gameplay scenarios and difficulty options that make the experience genuinely harder. The first-person melee is very satisfying, from camera movements to impact sounds to hit reactions, and you get a lot of contextual moves (dropkicks, slide kicks, grapple throw, running tackle, headstomp) that can be chained together in creative ways to dispatch enemies but also leave you vulnerable for the whole duration so it's not a total cheesefest like Dishonored. The world is a parkour + combat sandbox that affords you a lot of opportunities for creative kills, like kicking enemies into Dark Messiah spike walls or baiting them into electrical and fire traps, or simply dropkicking them off of rooftops. You will be killing hordes of zombies and the occasional raider, but the enemy roster is pretty good and poses a real threat. It is a very "gamey" game so if that bothers you, look elsewhere. I have a full critique of the game here if you want to know more of my thoughts.

    So, that's my answer for best first-person melee, followed by Dark Messiah, followed by (and I shit you not) System Shock 2. It may be super basic, but the simulated wrench swings that can collide with enemy weapons and have to be timed with your movement to hit for stagger are actually quite good. Thief has the same melee combat (plus more player mechanics -- you can block and also swing from the right) but the enemies are fairly hard to read with some undodgeable BS attacks so as to discourage fightings, while SS2's enemies are better-tuned for CQC. Well, if you ask me they were a bit too easy and cheesable, which is why I made a mod to patch up their melee AI, and that process really made me appreciate the basic but solid melee mechanics in Dark.

    I've not played Kingdom Come: Deliverance so I can't comment in much detail. The fundamentals seem pretty good (stamina system, lock-on with focus on aiming attack directions, various offensive and defensive maneuvers) but I don't know what depth is really there, how it interfaces with the RPG systems, etc. I haven't played Chivalry or Mordhau so I don't know much about those either.
     
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  21. Talby Arcane Patron

    Talby
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    Codex USB, 2014
    The melee combat in Kingdom Comrade is terrible.
     
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  22. Belegarsson Think about hairy dwarfs all the time ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Patron

    Belegarsson
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    The game released early in several regions and Steam's player tracker didn't count them, so it actually makes sense. Most games peaked in the first day or two in terms of CCU, and I can tell quite a lot of people refunded after experiencing (or hearing from others) bad performance.
     
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  23. Nifft Batuff Cipher

    Nifft Batuff
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    Every normie loves soulslike/roguelikes games with boring endless "try it again from the start" loops. So I don't see the marketing target problem. Maybe these fans are too dumb to recognize their kins?

    And I have a question: is there anyone here that has actually played this game?
     
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  24. Trithne Augur

    Trithne
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    Myself, Zombra, and <3sRichardSimmons at the least.
     
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  25. DeepOcean Arcane

    DeepOcean
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    And about single player? People are saying it takes in general 25hs to get all the visionaries in place to kill them on the four time slots, question is how boring those 25hs will be if you do 24hs of shooting braindead enemies and 1h of clue hunting? Does the adaptive difficulty eventually kick in or the difference it makes is negligible? It seems the biggest culprits are the way too generous detection timer, low enemy accuracy and poor peripheral vision, technically, those are numbers you place in variables that the game can tune up, the question is, does this ever happen?
     
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