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Definition of Roleplaying Games

ELEXmakesMeHard

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What do you think Valheim would need in order to be considered an RPG? It's got combat, exploration, a basic story/quest, character development (in terms of skills), and some character customization. Would it cross into RPG-territory if the devs simply added a few NPCs you could interact with and get story-related miniquests from?

The Coucil is a very close call IMO. It's got character development, an intricate story, massive C&C, and exploration (albeit a bit limited). But it's considered an adventure game, not an RPG.
 

Gahbreeil

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The mark of a Role-Playing Game is, regardless of whether it is high fantasy, sword and sorcery, science-fiction, anything, that you have a playable character or characters with some sort of a skills/attributes system which defines the character or characters and that you can shape the world and the character through the actions performed. In example, Icewind Dale, you have six characters which you have defined upon character creation and then shape the world and the characters through advancing the main story through heroic deeds and dialogue.

1. Character creation and development!
2. Exploration and heroic deeds!
3. Advancing and shaping your character/characters!
4. Tactical combat! (Not required for the mark.)
 
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laclongquan

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In its entirety it consists of the deeds and dialogues that a player whom is willing to play out a role performs in the theatre of life imagined by the playwright. The player takes up the mantle of an actor whom writes the story o' the character by choosing between the lines and actions available within the play presented by the proprietor of the theatre or, in other words, the narrator.

Yet within the dialogues and deeds that the actor is allowed there exist two more points. First and foremost, the thrill of combat as it is presented by the rolling o' dice and second, the thrill of sharing experiences with friends and companions whom are the other actors or the writer of the play.

Are the two paragraphs above sufficient to fully describe a Roleplaying Game? Or not? Do share your facts and opinions.

These are NOT definition for roleplaying game in the context of computer/console rpg. For a list of number acceptable elements that a game must have before it can be consider a computer RPG, please check here.

I must specify it so because there's roleplaying game in context of bedroom, which we know how that might turn out.

And then there's roleplaying game in context of pen and paper RPG, which is another beast entirely.

And there's the roleplaying game in context of tabletop session which frankly I avoid touching even with ten foot pole :mlady:

The roleplaying game in context of novels or movies is something else we are not talking here, right? right.
 

Glop_dweller

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"I'll play the role of a fighter, and you take the role of a wizard": the origins of "role-playing" games, ca. 1974.
That is still a misinterpretation. The word has a double meaning, and is commonly used to describe a job; as when someone might ask, "What is your role here?", and be answered, "Groundskeeper". But in roleplaying games the personality is paramount, the individuals have different history, different stats, different skills even among the same classes. They have different ethics, and most importantly different weaknesses. You are playing the person, not their job.

In Baldur's Gate there is Edwin, and Xan, Khalid and Kaigan they are not interchangeable mages and fighters.

*The TMNT make a good example of four —fighters— yet each react to situations very differently. If roleplaying Michealangelo, it would be out of character to behave and approach situations [combat or otherwise] like Leonardo, or Raphael. Michealangelo wouldn't think like they do; wouldn't have Raphael's temper, nor Leonardo's patience, and foresight.
Personality is paramount.
 
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Krice

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RPG without a "story" and "dialogues" is a wargame.

RPG with a story and dialogue is an adventure game. Like I said, this is not going to work. However there is a long history of computer role-playing games which I suggest these people try to learn before they redefine the genre. We have had this same "problem" with roguelikes... some random cretins trying to redefine and reimagine what a roguelike is. Funniest thing is that these people aren't even players or developers. What gives them right to define anything?
 

mondblut

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In Baldur's Gate there is Edwin, and Xan, Khalid and Kaigan they are not interchangeable mages and fighters.

Who? My custom party of 6 doesn't know any of these people.

*The TMNT make a good example of four —fighters— yet each react to situations very differently. If roleplaying Michealangelo, it would be out of character to behave and approach situations [combat or otherwise] like Leonardo, or Raphael. Michealangelo wouldn't think like they do; wouldn't have Raphael's temper, nor Leonardo's patience, and foresight.
Personality is paramount.

OK larper :lol:
 
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Definition of role play games anons is cute games with cute wifes anons! It is true anons! It is!
3dQUPrZ.gif
 

Glop_dweller

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I absolutely love how people sign their ratings here with their account name; it really shows off their mentality, and worth. :cool:

Very easy with a sorted list of each; better still with followup quotes.

_____________

Stats and skills are the how an RPG engine evaluates the PC. These are used to indicate when to say 'no'—as that it what RPG engine are for... when to say no to the PC, based on luck and influence from skills and abilities (or specifically when these are lacking).

Ideally the campaign should both open and close paths through the story based on PC ability, such that no two will get the exact same set of events in their experience of the game's encounters.

Best case, the RPG has a large pool of locations and encounters that hinge upon the PC's ability to unlock them; such that playing the game from beginning to end sees only the fraction available to that particular PC.

RPG-1.gif
 
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Nortar

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Pathfinder: Wrath
RPG without a "story" and "dialogues" is a wargame.
RPG with a story and dialogue is an adventure game.

Except that adventure games do not necessarily have extensive mechanics or even rely on dices to determine outcomes of actions.
So I'd say that adventure + wargame = RPG.

But I agree, there is no clear-cut answer, that fits every game. Otherwise, there would not be so many spears broken on the subject.
And in this particular discussion, we're rocking between tabletop and computer games, which only adds more confusion.
 

JarlFrank

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
RPG sessions can have pre-assigned PCs. Therein the players are given their established roles.

But usually they don't.

I never played a pen and paper session with a character someone else made for me. The first session of any campaign usually consists of character creation, and even the noobs get to create their own characters from scratch.

In fact, by removing character creation and customization, you remove one of the most fundamental aspects of an RPG.
 

Gahbreeil

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In fact, by removing character creation and customization, you remove one of the most fundamental aspects of an RPG.
Picking the main quest line similarly to picking guilds in Morrowind, Oblivion or Skyrim would allow full character creation and customisation. The Bhaalspawn is the Bhaalspawn, no other way around it.
 

Glop_dweller

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I never played a pen and paper session with a character someone else made for me.
It's common enough when a new player joins an in progress game, and needs a PC; without making the rest of the players wait.

In either case, it doesn't matter much so long as the character bio is reasonably defined, the character should be understandable enough.

The first session of any campaign usually consists of character creation, and even the noobs get to create their own characters from scratch.

In fact, by removing character creation and customization, you remove one of the most fundamental aspects of an RPG.
Whatever generates the PC, so long as their is one, it can be roleplayed.

*Wait... Do you —not— roleplay your in-party nPCs?

In Baldur's Gate (for instance) Do you use the whole party to rob the rooms at the Friendly Arm Inn? ...Have Ajantis, Minsc, and Khalid guard Montaron while he steals from the guest rooms? That's against their alignments, and their ethics. Montaron would be slipping in alone (or with like minded PCs only), and be on his own if attacked—and/or killed.
 
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Gahbreeil

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1. Character creation has some form of in-game consequences
2. Statistics which define character(s) abilities are subject to change throughout the game
3. Character(s) have skills or abilities which may improve or be altered over the course of gameplay
4. Character(s) accrue experience which can be spent or result in gaining levels or abilities
5. Character(s) accumulate items in some form of inventory, which the player can actively use (equip, sell, destroy, trade, etc.), which enhance or otherwise alter gameplay
6. Character(s) accumulate currency which may be spent to enhance the character(s) in some way (items, guild membership, training, etc.)
7. Character(s) gain levels throughout the game which result in some form of mechanical change (not just a change in character title, or description)
8. Character(s) are able to explore over terrain, water, space, etc. ('explore' refers to free movement of main character(s))
9. The game has some form of puzzle solving, which is resolved through combat, problem resolution, or some choice made by the player
10. A choice made by the player alters the narrative, or some other significant part of the game (an item is found or lost, stats or skills are gained or lost, different ending, etc.)
11. Character(s) interact with NPCs in some form of dialogue which have in-game consequences depending on what the character(s) say.
12. Optional quests (defined here as some kind of task made available after the game has started, and which can be resolved by the player before the game ends, but is not required to complete the game) are available.
These are NOT definition for roleplaying game in the context of computer/console rpg. For a list of number acceptable elements that a game must have before it can be consider a computer RPG, please check here.
1. Character creation does not have to exist in an RPG. You can still play the predesigned role, even affect it.
2. Statistics or attributes do not have to change at all!
3. Check, it is correct.
4. Experience is all fine. Morrowind sets the other example, that skills advance through usage.
5. I can imagine an RPG without an inventory system although... Check, it is correct.
6. A currency is part of the setting, unrequired.
7. Again, Morrowind proves the point wrong.
8. Exploration! Check, it is correct. Although should be simplified to actions/deeds.
9. Riddles vary. The ones in the story don't have to be. The ones in tactical combat neither.
10. Your choices alter the story, absolutely. Check, it is correct.
11. Once more, yes. Check, it is correct.
12. Side quests do not have to be.

To summarise, four agreements. Which leads to me thinking this. Story, Deeds, Consequences. These are the marks of an RPG according to me after reading these 12 points. Another good point is that a Role-Playing Game is simply a port of a Pen and Paper. Better to build a Pen and Paper and create a video game out of it rather than create a video game and name it a real RPG.

To continue, a story is irreplacable. Without the dialogues the RPG would be bland. Deeds are a must since no video game exists where you don't have to do anything, it would be a movie. Consequences are the mark of an advanced RPG, deeds, dialogue options, exploring as well.
 

laclongquan

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Note that 12 elements has some overlapped each other but not repeated. It is so to cover different expression of gameplay, like if you use xp and level is one element, but another just use skill level alone (Unreal World). It is so to give more strength to certain element group, which is a RPGCodex bias rather than overall general gamer population.

Say point 7 you dont like, citing Morrowind. But that is because MW still keep level aspect. Unreal World get away from level altogether and just use skill level alone. so these two games give different answer to question 4th, and 7th.

You like only 4 points, mostly show you are storyfag, which is our bias. But note that 12 point covers all aspect, including gameplay, not just story or writing alone~
 
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Krice

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To continue, a story is irreplacable. Without the dialogues the RPG would be bland.

Who are you? What is your backstory, I want to know everything. How did you get these things so wrong.
 

Silverfish

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A role-playing game is defined by how many stat points I can invest in strength. The more points, the more role-playing-y it is.
 

Krice

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That was me continuing the topic of the thread if you didn't catch my thought.

I mean who are you as a person. Do you even play role-playing games? I mean we have seen a lot of people in gaming world who just want to destroy something, mostly women of course. Women are like that, they want to destroy rather than build anything.
 

Gahbreeil

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I mean who are you as a person. Do you even play role-playing games? I mean we have seen a lot of people in gaming world who just want to destroy something, mostly women of course. Women are like that, they want to destroy rather than build anything.
I am a writer of adventure novels. I only wrote once thus far. I do play Role-Playing Games and it is my favourite genre of video games.

As for your question why I got things so wrong, I do understand dialogue to be a vital part of any story. You will not find a lot of fantasy novels without dialogues so it is only natural to follow the example led by writers when creating a video game. And Role-Playing Games are really the best because of the option to choose between dialogue options, something that no book can have. There is no other way to shape a story except for dialogues other than picking the main quest line from amidst a few, the side quests having consequences and the parts of the main quest, in the traditional example, having consequences.
 

Krice

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There is no other way to shape a story except for dialogues other than picking the main quest line from amidst a few

The problem we have here is that many role-playing games have no dialogue or if it has it doesn't change anything in the game. However they are still RPGs, because they have a RPG system. Using dialogue or discussions is one way to interact with the game world, so it's not like it doesn't belong to RPGs, it's just less common than you would think. Saying that it "defines" a RPG is simply wrong.
 

CanadianCorndog

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If you are playing a role, then there is a suggestion of an expectation that you are going to serve a function in society, story or in this case a game.
I think a more interesting way to set up a game for someone to play a role is to have a moral premise for your game. The role of the player can then be the protagonist who proves the moral premise of the game.
How the protagonist does this could be open to one degree or another, depending on the game design.
The alternative is to have no moral premise and just let the player act in the role of fighter, wizard, cowboy, etc. Not as interesting as having an overall moral premise for your game.
The drawback of having a moral premise is it requires a degree of linearity so that you can show the progress of the protagonist from X to Y. Character growth to demonstrate the moral premise.
So the fun for the player is being the protagonist and having options in how they fulfill the moral premise of your game.
Most RPGs have no real moral premise though. You get good ending, bad ending, neutral ending, etc. That's really weak.
 

PorkaMorka

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"Adventure wargaming with player agency" sounds reasonable.

You play the role of an adventurer (like a fighter, mage, thief, etc) and go on an adventure and face in game challenges that you try to overcome.

It's different from a board game because the player can attempt to overcome the challenges however he wants (subject to the in-game laws of physics and the DM's adjudication) instead of only having a few pre-scripted options. This can include dialog but often there is very little dialog and what dialog does occur is not necessarily acted out in a theatrical way.

"Story" isn't necessarily the focus

"Role-playing isn't storytelling, if the dungeon master is directing it, it's not a game." - Gary Gygax

If the DM hasn't prepared something then the players might wander around the game world freely, pursuing their own agendas. In that case the DM will react to the decisions made by the players and improvise some appropriate challenges for them to deal with. So the players might decide if they want to go fight some monsters or go try and steal stuff in a town or any number of other options, rather than just following a scripted story or plot.

Unfortunately the name "roleplaying game" was not necessarily the best choice, as there is a different usage of the term "roleplaying" in psychology, which is apparently more about theatrical / dramatic improvisation and acting out situations to explore your feelings.

That is NOT the core of roleplaying games.
 

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