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Design your own level challenge.

PompiPompi

Man with forever hair
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RPG Wokedex
I am being told that my level design is bad.

Please show me how would you design a good level:

Example of first level in Burial Stone(the map)

1662329832390.png


Where "1" is where the player start.

The rules of the level are:
1. tiled/4 directions based.
2. Rogue style walking/"turns".
3. Every interaction or attack pass "time".
4. Stairs are entrance to next level.

You can make a level in tiled, it's not too hard.

https://www.mapeditor.org/

So how would you make a good first level?
Maybe I can learn from you something and we can discuss why your levels are bad or good.
 

Viata

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I'm sure there is a thread on codex with cool maps/dungeons from good games you could take as inspirations or study. Sadly, the search function is shit.
 

PompiPompi

Man with forever hair
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I'm sure there is a thread on codex with cool maps/dungeons from good games you could take as inspirations or study. Sadly, the search function is shit.
Yea, but you can't learn when they show you a perfect map from big companies.
I want to see people create their own map, because maybe they can teach me better.
 
Joined
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I'm sure there is a thread on codex with cool maps/dungeons from good games you could take as inspirations or study. Sadly, the search function is shit.
Yea, but you can't learn when they show you a perfect map from big companies.
I want to see people create their own map, because maybe they can teach me better.

You don't need to design maps, you need to design encounters
 

PompiPompi

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Ok, can you show me how would you design a 32x32 map around those encounters?
 

PompiPompi

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Well sure... I mean.
That's why I gave first level. Because it's the level where you introduce new equipment/spells/skills.
The level design also give you a tactical setting, given the AI of the enemy is sophisticated enough.
So yea, I can actually decide which encounters I want...
1. Basic enemy.
2. Basic enemy after player got better.
3. two enemies.
And etc.
You mean like that?
Then I need to tie it together with how much loot to drop and etc.
However, players also don't like that the enemies spawn at the same place, and give the same loot.
So this makes it more complicated.
I just ask to draw one map, with it's encounters, maybe your set of rules... and explain the logic behind that map.
It's not really that simple. And there are a lot of details going into it.
First level is a good example, because there is no "legacy" of previous level.
 
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What im saying is the layout is not necessarily what defines the level design as good.
Here's one way you could go about it, encounters first, then join it together on a map.

 
Last edited:
Self-Ejected

Davaris

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Graphviz is useful for this kind of thing, and you can make your graphs using human readable text files.
 

PompiPompi

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This is basically the first level of Burial Stone for comparission

1662484709365.png
 

Darth Canoli

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Yea, but you can't learn when they show you a perfect map from big companies.
I want to see people create their own map, because maybe they can teach me better.

That's not something you can learn if you didn't experience it firsthand.
  • Play a game with good dungeon design, there's many, just play Wizardry 8 monastery, it's just the beginning of the game and will only take a few hours.
  • If you can feel it, it doesn't mean you'll know how to do something similar but it's the first step.
  • Then, play a game with good encounter design like Knights of the Chalice, UFO from Microprose, Dungeon Rats, Colony Ship, ...
Once you're there, either you got it and you like Wizardry 8 monastery design and you like combat encounter from the mentioned games or you don't.

If you don't, you'll never level up as a good game designer, you're only bet is to get hired by Obsidian or Bethesda where you're mediocre work will never get noticed.
Now, if you do, you'll have to climb the mountains and cross the deserts of game design.
 
Self-Ejected

Davaris

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I'm sure there is a thread on codex with cool maps/dungeons from good games you could take as inspirations or study. Sadly, the search function is shit.
Yea, but you can't learn when they show you a perfect map from big companies.
I want to see people create their own map, because maybe they can teach me better.

There are people doing this exact thing with programming on youtube and twitch. Do they not have similar for level building?
 

PompiPompi

Man with forever hair
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This is how the map looks now:
1662663912568.png


What do you think about loot?
Is it not stupid that loot falls from a rat? How it carries a dagger, in his butt?

I am thinking, maybe randomizing the loot in the chests, or some chests are randomized and placed randomly.
 

whydoibother

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Codex Year of the Donut
Once the level is complete, there's no quick way to go back to the entrance.
0/10
?
1. Maps usually have a start point and an end point, which are far away from each other.
2. Usually you can "clear" the map by going from the start to the end.
3. You are now in an empty map, with nothing to do, and have to walk back to the entrance to leave it.
Solution: create a shortcut that can take you from the end to the start once the map is cleared (which you couldn't take before, and opens once its clear).
This way once you are done with the map, you don't have to waste time walking back.
 

zapotec

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First thing is when you have a doorway that just opens up into a big room, everyone will just move back and funnel the monsters through that doorway and fight them one on one. You need to force them into the room and discourage that tactic.
https://andrewyoderdesign.blog/2019/08/04/the-door-problem-of-combat-design/

Site to explore levels from good games
https://noclip.website/
OHh that's why in MM3/MMM4-5 there was always traps placed in front of the door
 

PompiPompi

Man with forever hair
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RPG Wokedex
Once the level is complete, there's no quick way to go back to the entrance.
0/10
?
1. Maps usually have a start point and an end point, which are far away from each other.
2. Usually you can "clear" the map by going from the start to the end.
3. You are now in an empty map, with nothing to do, and have to walk back to the entrance to leave it.
Solution: create a shortcut that can take you from the end to the start once the map is cleared (which you couldn't take before, and opens once its clear).
This way once you are done with the map, you don't have to waste time walking back.
Since it plays like a rogue, once you are done with the map, you never go back to it though.
 

CanadianCorndog

Learned
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Feb 2, 2021
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147
I'm sure there is a thread on codex with cool maps/dungeons from good games you could take as inspirations or study. Sadly, the search function is shit.
Yea, but you can't learn when they show you a perfect map from big companies.
I want to see people create their own map, because maybe they can teach me better.

There are people doing this exact thing with programming on youtube and twitch. Do they not have similar for level building?
Generally, level design in games is done with "best practices" and is sort of random. There are other industries, like theme park and casino design, which are much more knowledgable about how to get people into a space and let them have fun.
This book and others by Disney are really good.
9781423119159_p0_v2_s1200x630.jpg
 

Lord Rocket

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Feb 6, 2008
Messages
1,089
PompiPompi put in some loops bro. It's cool when you open something and it leads somewhere you've already explored, thus creating shortcuts and alternate routes and stuff. Your most recent attempt is probably the worst thus far, all it is is a hallway with various similar sized rooms protruding from it. The player's experience is gonna be walk down hallway -- open door -- return to hallway -- open next door etc. V. repetitious. Vary the size of the rooms too, have larger, more open rooms intermixed with the small ones.

Actually while I'm on the topic, walls that you can see through are dope too (fences, height variation if your engine can do that, etc.), you can reward the player by putting cool stuff they can see on the other side and thus motivate them to look for it. Or avoid it, if it's a visible tough monster or trap-filled room. Gives exploration more meaning than just 'I wonder what's through this nondescript door that looks the same as all the other nondescript doors'.
(you can do something similar with locked doors but it's not quite as cool imo)

Oh, and secret areas. Put in heaps of them, the more there are the more likely players are to find at least one. Finding secrets is fun.

(I'm not gonna make your levels for you btw. nice try though)
 

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