Deus Ex Deus Ex: Mankind Divided

[DalekFlay]

The story itself is very basic, a terrorist bombs a train station and you are on a mission to find and stop this terrorist. Simple enough premise and with some inspired writing, this could have been the basis for something larger, a starting point where you begin to pull the threads of the tapestry to revel something more behind the scenes. Sadly, this doesn't happen. You just solve the case, find the terrorist and the game ends. You do travel to different places, deal with different factions and meet different people along the way, but there is no twist, no deeper meaning, no meaningful reveal at the end.

Just like with HR, the game before this one, the creators don't seem to know what they want to do with this franchise. Yet, the game works as a Deus Ex game, and it stands on its own. Very much on its own, in fact, nobody even in shouting distance. Some have (rightly) pointed out that HR was more a Ghost in the Machine game than Deus Ex, this one is more Deus Ex than Ghost in the Machine, but so alone, so far from its origins and ostensible inspiration with regards to the story, that I would question if the executive producers are in fact right for the job. Many plot threads are left hanging, dropped or forgotten when the game ends - only the main thread is concluded.

I vaguely recall the "twist" or whatever being that Manderlay and MJ12 were basically behind the terrorist attack, trying to set up themselves for more power? Maybe I am making that up. I guess it's not much of a twist anyway since HR had the same thing going on. The franchise was obviously being set up for the Dentons being clones of Jensen for his augment accepting genes, and probably a Jensen sacrifice ending of some sort to set up Deus Ex, but yeah I doubt we get there now.

 

[Yosharian]

I remember talking about Square Enix's acquisition of this franchise being a terrible thing back in the day, even got banned off a forum I frequented by some retard admin because he said I was wrong, it didn't matter at all about Squenix being the publisher.

And now the franchise is dead, thanks to.. Square Enix. And not only because they pulled the plug, but also because they forced MTX cancer into the series.

If you're out there somewhere, Complex, fuck you I was right.

 

[DalekFlay]

And now the franchise is dead, thanks to.. Square Enix. And not only because they pulled the plug, but also because they forced MTX cancer into the series.

I played Mankind Divided without ever even looking at the micro-transaction section and it was 100% fine. I don't think it effected the game balance much, if at all. I agree Square fucked the game in the ass in other ways though. Not sure if we ever would have gotten two pretty good games from any other publisher though, the series was pretty dead after Invisible War. I'm happy to have two more pretty good Deus Ex entries after that disaster.

 

[Yosharian]

And now the franchise is dead, thanks to.. Square Enix. And not only because they pulled the plug, but also because they forced MTX cancer into the series.

I played Mankind Divided without ever even looking at the micro-transaction section and it was 100% fine. I don't think it effected the game balance much, if at all. I agree Square fucked the game in the ass in other ways though. Not sure if we ever would have gotten two pretty good games from any other publisher though, the series was pretty dead after Invisible War. I'm happy to have two more pretty good Deus Ex entries after that disaster.

I guess. Just would have been nice to see the next game before I croak it

 

[502]

I played Mankind Divided without ever even looking at the micro-transaction section and it was 100% fine. I don't think it effected the game balance much, if at all.

It also has New Game+ and if you are so starved for resources in the microtransaction store you may as well use it. I tried NG+ for my second run and it completely trivializes resource management. Not to mention third party facilities like Cheat Engine. You have to be an absolute shitbrain to spend money on this game's microtransactions.

I've been hearing resource management is purposely tighter in Breach, though. Never tried it.

 

[Nano]

I remember hearing that SE forced MTXs into this game very close to release, meaning they wouldn't have had time to balance for it even if they wanted to.

 

[502]

Makes sense. Breach was also dictated by SE.

 

[AW8]

Mankind Divided's devs were forced to split it from being one game into two by Square Enix. There was a plan (which is why the game essentially ends right before the third act would've begun, with plot threads such as Janus and where Adam got his new augs just about ready to pay off) for a complete game, but when Mankind Divided didn't do well due to a poor launch (most likely a rushed launch), Square Enix also forcing devs to implement heinous microtransactions weeks before it was going to come out, and an obviously unfinished plot, Square cancelled the already-in-development sequel.

I hear this a lot, but is there a source for this? Or is it just a fan theory explaining the lack of conclusion that has been repeated so often it has become the truth?

 

[Athos]

Mankind Divided's devs were forced to split it from being one game into two by Square Enix. There was a plan (which is why the game essentially ends right before the third act would've begun, with plot threads such as Janus and where Adam got his new augs just about ready to pay off) for a complete game, but when Mankind Divided didn't do well due to a poor launch (most likely a rushed launch), Square Enix also forcing devs to implement heinous microtransactions weeks before it was going to come out, and an obviously unfinished plot, Square cancelled the already-in-development sequel.

I hear this a lot, but is there a source for this? Or is it just a fan theory explaining the lack of conclusion that has been repeated so often it has become the truth?

There was an interview with Elias Toufexis posted a few pages ago. Some of the developers also said something about this.

 

[AW8]

There was an interview with Elias Toufexis posted a few pages ago. Some of the developers also said something about this.

I re-read the interview, he says nothing about the game being split. He says that, as far as he knows, the game ended where it was supposed to end - contradicting the notion that Square Enix forced them to cut the game in two.

I did find a video by Jim Sterling where he talks about interviewing an anonymous Eidos Montreal developer who told him that a sequel was in development at least half a year before Mankind Divided's intended release. That's suspect, but having the next game start production before the current one is released isn't unheard of either. His source also couldn't confirm that the two games where originally one, which I think would be the simplest thing to do if they were.

He does say that Breach and the microtransactions were forced upon them by Square Enix, and those are obvious publisher/owner dumbfuckery. The split makes for a good story, and Square Enix have set themselves up as a good villain. But I have yet to see definite proof that the blame for the lackluster scope of the game's story cannot be placed on Eidos Montreal for the usual reasons: Poor planning, going over budget, creative differences and re-writes (Elias did mention there had been a big re-write of the story) etc.

 

[DalekFlay]

As much as I'd like to see a finished trilogy and story wrap-up, I'd honestly be even more excited to finally have a good indie "Deux Ex-a-like."

 

[Atlantico]

Eidos Montréal definitely have themselves to blame for the story, the characters and the gameplay balancing - perhaps even for the game ending where it did. After all, this was a full game, content-wise. The main plot will take anyone 15-20 hours to finish, the side-missions another 10-15 hours. The DLCs another 5-10 hours. Jensen has every imaginable upgrade, money and gear by the latter half of the game.

It probably was designed this way by Eidos Montréal. It just boggles the mind that they did, but it seems that they did...

Square Enix is a dumbass company, with dumbass executives, but there doesn't seem to be anything missing from DXMD if one compares it to the average AAA game or even the last DX game.

It's all there, people are getting their money's worth ... so to speak.

But here's the thing, I think Eidos Montréal needed to do something extraordinary, they had to subvert our expectations and make the game *epic* in scope. We should have been at the half-way point in the London mission and then played the second half of the game. Not just big, but *epic*.

Have people know that they are getting crazy immense value by buying this game. Give out free DLCs, if needed, have it DRM-free.

Because that's what they're up against with Cyberpunk 2077. Look for renewed interest in DX by Square Enix if and when CP2077 becomes a success.

 

[Latelistener]

They were developing another game after Human Revolution, so they weren't busy with Mankind Divided for 5 years straight.

It's 3 years at best and it's too short for a modern AAA title, considering that they had to rework the Hitman engine this time.

And as much as I want it to be, Cyberpunk 2077 is not an immersive sim. It's a mix of everything you hate about modern gaming. Basically, a "shlooter" with a city filled with question marks similar to Witcher 3 (basically 2-3 fetch quests, repeated 1000 times) to make the world feel bigger aka the Ubisoft's cancerous open world game design. It's still gonna be 10 out of 10 though and will sell better than any immersive sim ever created.

 

[luj1]

As much as I'd like to see a finished trilogy and story wrap-up, I'd honestly be even more excited to finally have a good indie "Deux Ex-a-like."

It exists. It's called Brigand: Oaxaca.

 

[Atlantico]

And as much as I want it to be, Cyberpunk 2077 is not an immersive sim.

I know it isn't, but a Square Enix executive couldn't tell an immersive sim from Pong.

They see: "this cyberpunk genre is making money, do we have a cyberpunk IP?" and greenlight another DX prequelsequel. That's how this business works.

 

[TheChickenKing]

I hear this a lot, but is there a source for this? Or is it just a fan theory explaining the lack of conclusion that has been repeated so often it has become the truth?

As far as I know (based on past knowledge and a few quick searches), Sterling's source is where this came from. I don't care for Sterling in the slightest, but I also don't believe that he has any reason to lie or that he'd source some random asshole who doesn't know what they're talking about. I'd say the most likely point of contention in terms of the accuracy of this theory would be that the developer who spoke out may have been passing blame off onto Square Enix unfairly, but we do know from Eidos Montreal that a sequel was in development at a different developer before Mankind Divided shipped. Given that Eidos Montreal was the primary team behind HR and MD, that is kind of an odd thing, and I believe it would support the anonymous source's take on things.

That being said, you were probably correct to call me out on my lack of sourcing. I haven't looked into this for a while and I've been taking all of this stuff at face value since I heard about it years back. I think it's a lot more plausible that SE screwed the pooch than Eidos Montreal, but we'll likely both never know exactly what happened nor is it fair to exclude the fact that Montreal probably could've done a better job with the material they had in the first place.

 

[Athos]

There was an interview with Elias Toufexis posted a few pages ago. Some of the developers also said something about this.

I re-read the interview, he says nothing about the game being split. He says that, as far as he knows, the game ended where it was supposed to end - contradicting the notion that Square Enix forced them to cut the game in two.

I did find a video by Jim Sterling where he talks about interviewing an anonymous Eidos Montreal developer who told him that a sequel was in development at least half a year before Mankind Divided's intended release. That's suspect, but having the next game start production before the current one is released isn't unheard of either. His source also couldn't confirm that the two games where originally one, which I think would be the simplest thing to do if they were.

He does say that Breach and the microtransactions were forced upon them by Square Enix, and those are obvious publisher/owner dumbfuckery. The split makes for a good story, and Square Enix have set themselves up as a good villain. But I have yet to see definite proof that the blame for the lackluster scope of the game's story cannot be placed on Eidos Montreal for the usual reasons: Poor planning, going over budget, creative differences and re-writes (Elias did mention there had been a big re-write of the story) etc.

To get a sense that Square Enix involvement in the development was malicious and heavy-handed you just have to look at the DLCs for MD. Of the three official DLCs, only one is really separate content. The first, "Desperate measures", is a single mission chopped off from the game and reserved for the special edition (they released it for free after some time). While the bonus mission for HR was pure fan service, inconsequential for the general plot but nonetheless integrated in the base game, this mission for MD is clearly a piece of the main quest related to the bomb-maker plot, completely stripped from the game and put in a ridiculous narrative limbo accessible from the main menu. The second DLC is another piece of main game chopped off at some point in development and used to introduce the useless breach mode (another bullshit enforced by SE because they thought it was needed to "keep the player engaged", in other words, they wanted a free to play game with microtransactions but thankfully it never became something serious) despite the fact that it was part of the investigations into the Santeau group and the closure of the general plot. Personally, I think that Marchenko is the biggest hint that the original plot was cut in half and stitched toghether with side quests to reach the 30 hours of gameplay. He is clearly a Barrett 2.0, complete with upgraded arm-cannon, the typical mid-game boss. He is the leader of the grunts but he was also supposed to be the sidekick of another illuminati agent already conceptualized in detail. Then there is Madame Photographe, another carefully designed antagonist NPC barely appearing on screen. Probably Eidos Montreal is partly to blame for what happened, they overstreched and drew the attention of the suits but I dont't think that they would have left the plot hanging like this. This is the product of a chopping ordered by someone who doesn't care.

 

[DalekFlay]

To get a sense that Square Enix involvement in the development was malicious and heavy-handed you just have to look at the DLCs for MD. Of the three official DLCs, only one is really separate content. The first, "Desperate measures", is a single mission chopped off from the game and reserved for the special edition (they released it for free after some time). While the bonus mission for HR was pure fan service, inconsequential for the general plot but nonetheless integrated in the base game, this mission for MD is clearly a piece of the main quest related to the bomb-maker plot, completely stripped from the game and put in a ridiculous narrative limbo accessible from the main menu. The second DLC is another piece of main game chopped off at some point in development and used to introduce the useless breach mode (another bullshit enforced by SE because they thought it was needed to "keep the player engaged", in other words, they wanted a free to play game with microtransactions but thankfully it never became something serious) depite the fact that it was part of the investigations into the Santeau group and the closure of the general plot. Personally, I think that Marchenko is the biggest hint that the original plot was cut in half and stitched toghether with side quests to reach the 30 hours of gameplay. He is clearly a Barrett 2.0, complete with upgraded arm-cannon, the typical mid-game boss. He is the leader of the grunts but he was also supposed to be the sidekick of another illuminati agent already conceptualized in detail. Then there is Madame Photographe, another carefully designed antagonist NPC barely appearing on screen. Probably Eidos Montreal is partly to blame for what happened, they overstreched and drew the attention of the suits but I dont't think that they would have left the plot hanging like this. This is the product of a chopping ordered by someone who doesn't care.

Can't agree here, both bigger DLCs are great and feel like real additions. Each has a new hub and is quite lengthy. The one smaller DLC is definitely a piece cut out of the main game though, yes.

 

[Athos]

To get a sense that Square Enix involvement in the development was malicious and heavy-handed you just have to look at the DLCs for MD. Of the three official DLCs, only one is really separate content. The first, "Desperate measures", is a single mission chopped off from the game and reserved for the special edition (they released it for free after some time). While the bonus mission for HR was pure fan service, inconsequential for the general plot but nonetheless integrated in the base game, this mission for MD is clearly a piece of the main quest related to the bomb-maker plot, completely stripped from the game and put in a ridiculous narrative limbo accessible from the main menu. The second DLC is another piece of main game chopped off at some point in development and used to introduce the useless breach mode (another bullshit enforced by SE because they thought it was needed to "keep the player engaged", in other words, they wanted a free to play game with microtransactions but thankfully it never became something serious) depite the fact that it was part of the investigations into the Santeau group and the closure of the general plot. Personally, I think that Marchenko is the biggest hint that the original plot was cut in half and stitched toghether with side quests to reach the 30 hours of gameplay. He is clearly a Barrett 2.0, complete with upgraded arm-cannon, the typical mid-game boss. He is the leader of the grunts but he was also supposed to be the sidekick of another illuminati agent already conceptualized in detail. Then there is Madame Photographe, another carefully designed antagonist NPC barely appearing on screen. Probably Eidos Montreal is partly to blame for what happened, they overstreched and drew the attention of the suits but I dont't think that they would have left the plot hanging like this. This is the product of a chopping ordered by someone who doesn't care.

Can't agree here, both bigger DLCs are great and feel like real additions. Each has a new hub and is quite lengthy. The one smaller DLC is definitely a piece cut out of the main game though, yes.

I think only "System Rift" originally was part of the main game because it is chronologically inserted after the return from Golem City and is tied to the main quest, its plot is not self-contained. "A Criminal past" is a real addition.

 

[DalekFlay]

I think only "System Rift" originally was part of the main game because it is chronologically inserted after the return from Golem City and is tied to the main quest, its plot is not self-contained. "A Criminal past" is a real addition.

Well agree to disagree, I think it feels plenty separate enough. We do agree though that the prison DLC is the real expansion. Worth the price by itself IMO.

 

[Zanzoken]

I enjoyed DXHR and DXMD well enough, but also felt they left a lot to be desired from both a gameplay and storytelling perspective. Nothing that couldn't be fixed, but I wouldn't count on it in today's AAA environment.

I don't have strong feelings about whether or not a third game is made, because the story is basically already written. All signs point to the fact that Jensen was killed at the end of DXHR, but his DNA was recovered by Versalife and used to create an even more augmented clone -- the Jensen of DXMD. Jensen 2.0 is unwittingly being used as a pawn in Bob Page's scheme to usurp the Illuminati, a plan which ultimately must succeed in order to set the stage for DX1.

Of course, just because we know the destination doesn't mean we can't have an exciting and entertaining ride to get there. But again, I doubt the writing team that gave us "Aug Lives Matter" would be capable of providing one.

 

[502]

It's on GOG now.

https://www.gog.com/game/deus_ex_mankind_divided_deluxe_edition

And the Steam version still has Denuvo because of course it does.

I don't have strong feelings about whether or not a third game is made, because the story is basically already written. All signs point to the fact that Jensen was killed at the end of DXHR, but his DNA was recovered by Versalife and used to create an even more augmented clone -- the Jensen of DXMD. Jensen 2.0 is unwittingly being used as a pawn in Bob Page's scheme to usurp the Illuminati, a plan which ultimately must succeed in order to set the stage for DX1.

I've been meaning to discuss the "clone theory" here. It puts the story in a whole new light and makes things interesting.

For once it makes sense in-universe that the previous installment's multiple choice endings are retconned into an amalgam.

 

[DraQ]

Can someone confirm that the GOG version doesn't run malware DRM code?
It shouldn't ('cause GOG) but I've seen claims to the contrary.

(purchase button primed and standing by)

 

[Zanzoken]

I don't have strong feelings about whether or not a third game is made, because the story is basically already written. All signs point to the fact that Jensen was killed at the end of DXHR, but his DNA was recovered by Versalife and used to create an even more augmented clone -- the Jensen of DXMD. Jensen 2.0 is unwittingly being used as a pawn in Bob Page's scheme to usurp the Illuminati, a plan which ultimately must succeed in order to set the stage for DX1.

I've been meaning to discuss the "clone theory" here. It puts the story in a whole new light and makes things interesting.

For once it makes sense in-universe that the previous installment's multiple choice endings are retconned into an amalgam.

Someone made a wiki page that does a good job laying out all the evidence. I think it's pretty overwhelming when considered as a whole.

Also I think it's almost certain that Jensen's unique DNA, which holds the key to universal augmentation, plays a role in the creation of the Dentons later on.

 

[racofer]

Can someone confirm that the GOG version doesn't run malware DRM code?
It shouldn't ('cause GOG) but I've seen claims to the contrary.

(purchase button primed and standing by)

https://af.gog.com/forum/general/du...ailable_on_gogcom_f6c95/post152?as=1649904300