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Deutsche Qualität: will the renewal of the quality gaming industry come from Germany?

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by zool, Nov 5, 2021.

  1. JarlFrank I like Thief THIS much Patron

    JarlFrank
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    That's why Germany is the world's largest producer and consumer of Work Simulation Games.

    Games made by Germans, for Germans: farming sims, railway sims, bus driving sims, street cleaning sims, woodcutting sims, mining sims, factory sims...
     
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  2. toughasnails Educated

    toughasnails
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    Since the OP poked, I'll ask this.
    I'm wondering, given the cliches about German work ethics and perfectionism, how come so many of their games end up so janky, clunky, technically messy and so on? While there are some outliers, when people talk about "Eurojank" they mostly have German games in mind, Slavjank being its own world. So how come? Given the cliches about Germans, shouldn't be producing games with the sort of all-around polish you see in Japanese titles?
     
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  3. Cunt Dickula!? Arbiter

    Cunt Dickula!?
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    That clichee might still be true for some craftsmen and engineers but especially the german IT sector is dominated by lazy, inept and sloppy people.
     
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  4. JarlFrank I like Thief THIS much Patron

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    Apart from the "work sim" genre, the other genres I associate the German game industry with are:
    - city builders/management games
    - adventure games

    Both these genres have produced a lot of good games in the 90s and still do.
    Daedalic is one of the biggest adventure game developers and publishers today. Their Deponia series was popular, and they made some good Dark Eye adventures (Chains of Satinav, Memoria). They also branched out into strategy/RPG with Blackguards.
    Same with King Art. They started with really solid adventure games (Book of Unwritten Tales) and followed it with strategy games (Battle World Kronos, Iron Harvest). Battle World Kronos was inspired by an earlier German turn based strategy series called Battle Isle.

    The Settlers series, now owned by Ubisoft, was a German invention. There were several Settlers-inspired games made in Germany too, like Knights and Merchants, Die Völker, Cultures.

    Economy management games are a very German genre. Anything with spreadsheets is our thing. We even had some erotic management games like Biing! because the German's primary sexual fantasy is to be a successful manager and fuck his hot secretary.

    Of course, none of these genres are particularly mainstream. Germans have always been PC gamers, so big AAA multiplatform console games aren't really our thing. We've always been more into PC games: strategy, management, adventure. Sometimes RPGs, and when German devs do try their hands at RPGs, the result is usually good: the Realms of Arkania series from the 90s, Piranha Bytes' action RPGs, the Drakensang games, Blackguards. But they're not exactly mainstream blockbusters either, and tend to be developed for PC first (remember the utterly abysmal console port of the first Risen? LMAO), targeted at a niche audience rather than the big mainstream masses. Therefore, our gaming industry is never going to be as big as that of France, the UK, or the US, where the focus is on big multiplatform releases.

    Even our most mainstream developer, Crytek, started out as the dev making PC-only powerhouse games that pushed the hardware of computers at the time. When they smelled the money and turned towards consoles, the quality of their games sank and so did their popularity.
     
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  5. 1451 Seeker In My Safe Space

    1451
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    We heard that you like working so we made working simulators so you can work even when you're resting.:troll:
     
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  6. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    RPG Wokedex Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    was [​IMG]
     
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  7. JarlFrank I like Thief THIS much Patron

    JarlFrank
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    Oh right. They make interactive movies now or whatever the fuck.
     
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  8. Tavar Arbiter Patron

    Tavar
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    RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In
    There used by a lot of at least double AA studios in Germany around in the late 90s / early 00s. Most of them collapsed during the 00s as well as most of the bigger publisher. One of the big reasons was that many studios neglected the console market and only produced for PC. This was fine for a time as Germany was big enough to support that business model, but prevented them from breaking into any console dominated markets like the US and from accruing enough money for a safety net. Their margins were so thin that one commercial failure usually meant the end. Today the biggest studios in Germany are Bigpoint and Innogames and they make browser / mobile games. Talk about decline.

    What games do you mean specfically? Games like Gothic were made by small, extremely ambitious teams with poor planning and leadership. The amount of worked overtime was insane and burnt a lot of developers. Most of the talent of the 90s has quit the games industry at least 15 years ago simply because they were fed up with poor pay and long hours. Naturally, you also end with lots of bugs in this scenario especially if your huge turnover prevents you from actually learning from your mistakes.
     
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  9. Fedora Master Arcane Patron Edgy

    Fedora Master
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    When I say "Germany doesn't understand the Internet" I am not joking. You have to really grasp what this means for any company dealing with computer technology over here. Not only are we burdened with idiotic laws and terrible infrastructure, we also lack the basic education to use computers. Anyone who IS proficient with IT can get a better job than making games in their garage.
     
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  10. Dodo1610 Magister

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    So many german studios have been successful...... at self-destruction:
    Show Spoiler

    Ascaron(Anstoß, Sacred, Patrizier): Wanted to turn Sacred 2 into the ultimate big-budget Diablo killer but couldn't actually ship the finished product

    Radon Labs(Drakensang): Drakensang 2 was critically acclaimed and loved by its fans but their decision to heavily invest into full voice acting and cutscenes meant the game had to be successful outside Germany which it wasn't + their side business of making low budget NDS titles died when smartphones became popular.

    Spellbound(Desperados, Robin Hood, Arcania)Had success in the early 2000s with real-time tactics but wanted to grow and make RPGs so they made Arcania hoping for money in order to fund their steampunk RPG Ravensdale which didn't work out...

    Phenomic(Spellforce, Battleforge) Spellforce 1+2 were both really popular with their fairly unique mix of RTS and RPG. They were bought by EA so that they could make the strategy MMO Spellforce was originally supposed to be. Battleforge was card-based which meant that it was one of the early attempts at adding Microtransactions for a full-price video game.


    This is why I think Piranha Bytes greatest strength is budgeting thanks to their manager Michale Rüve. Though He isn't really involved with making their games, he made sure that despite missteps they managed to survive. PB doesn't really try to grow in order to make big-budget games and instead are able to make 60h+ open-world RPGs with a team of 30. It's funny that so many complain that PB has been making the same game for 20 years when so many other studios that tried new things and failed either getting dissolved or losing what made them great.
     
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  11. Zed Duke of Banville Zo Kath Ra Patron

    Zed Duke of Banville
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    [​IMG]

    Show Spoiler
    I've played Suzerain and made numerous posts in its thread.


    German game development never recovered from the demise of the Commodore Amiga. :M
     
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  12. Semiurge Cipher

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    German game industry was cucked before Germany itself. A fucking nanny state.
     
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  13. Jiggy Boobles TESTOSTERONIC As Fuck™ Patron

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    Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    They already have access to tax money. The German government is funding at least one game, X4.
     
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  14. Atlantico unida e indivisible Patron

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    Make the Codex Great Again!
    The beautiful thing about game development at that time, was the ability of 3-6 people creating a AAA game for the time.

    Silmarils was like three guys or something.

    Now a team of 30 people is small and quaint.
     
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  15. Blutwurstritter Educated

    Blutwurstritter
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    The Anno series also fits into the list. I never played it so I'm not up-to-date; does it still exist or has it also died ? I know that Blue Byte became part of Ubisoft at some point so I'm not sure if its even a German game at this point.
     
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  16. Cromwell Arcane

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    There also is a large amount of people and small firms who think they know something about IT and if you have to work with them you probably contemplate suicide after a the first few months. It cant be overstated how retarded this country is when it comes to IT and by how much everyone overestimates their own knowledge and skills. That also goes for pretty much every other sector in germany which means that further hinders any real progress in any given field which also includes games.
     
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  17. Blutwurstritter Educated

    Blutwurstritter
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    The low degree of competence regarding IT does not really explain why there aren't game developers in my opinion. There are people that could do it and as private firms they would not be hindered that much by the lack of it in other fields. But developing games is just not seen as a proper job with the chance to have a career. Its much easier and lucrative to get a job in the financial sector and insurance sector as someone with an IT/data analysis background. And you'll have a good and secure income. Even as someone who has not a direct IT background, I got offers. I'd guess that people with proper IT background get even better conditions. I don't know how far spread it truly is, but I also know that some large firms are looking to revert some of their IT outsourcing. I know cases where the IT administration is sitting entirely in India, and people have to contact them when they want to install something in a rather frustrating process. I'd guess that this also absorbs a lot of people and decreases the pool of possibly competent developers further.
     
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  18. Thac0 Time Mage Patron

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  19. Diablo1_reborn Busin 0 Wizardry Alternative Neo fanatic Patron

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    Probably also has something to do with the fact, that Germans in general are no great entertainers, respectively our entertainment branch is hot garbage.

    Then again, there is also the high probability, that other firms are just stealing the talent, or that German developers want to join other big name companies, rather than joining some no name companies in Germany working on Farming Simulators, Junk RPG's or Mobile Phone Games. Creating a gaming studio today, even with the help of subventions from the governent will still lead you nowhere if you don't have the (creative) talent, which 95% of the Germans
    Show Spoiler
    (and 100% of the fucking Canadians)
    lack.
     
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  20. JarlFrank I like Thief THIS much Patron

    JarlFrank
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    Yeah, the main complaint about PB is actually their greatest strength. They keep making the same game... but by this point they know how to make that game, despite a few missteps (Risen 2 and 3 veered a bit too far from the classic Gothic formula and were meh). The fans keep buying the games because they know what to expect. If you want a game that plays like Gothic, just grab any Piranha Bytes title and you're good. You know what to expect, and they won't disappoint you with any dumb experiments. Sometimes their new game is a worse Gothic, sometimes it's a better Gothic, but it's always recognizable as a Gothic.

    They didn't have a major dud yet because they never tried to change the formula in a major way. While Risen 2 had a different structure, the core gameplay was still Gothic. That's why their core audience of Germans and Polaks never stopped buying them.
    Meanwhile the ones that failed all strayed from the formula to chase a bigger mainstream audience, or over-budgeted and HAD to reach a bigger mainstream audience to break even, and that's why they failed.
     
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  21. JarlFrank I like Thief THIS much Patron

    JarlFrank
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    It's not quite accurate though because there are game subvention programs on a state level, rather than national level. Bavaria gives out state grants to promising game projects, for example.
    But it's true that there's a lack of it at the national level.
     
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  22. zool Cipher

    zool
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    Mimimi Games got funding from the Federal government for their next game. What Thac0 was saying seems to be confirmed by the bolded sentence.

    https://www.mimimi.games/the-future-of-mimimi-games/

     
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  23. zool Cipher

    zool
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    Before Arcania, Spellbound started to fuck up their formula with Chicago 1930, a game that should have been awesome as it still featured the beautiful maps that were so characteristic of Desperados and Robin Hood, but for which they inexplicably changed the gameplay from Commandos-style to some sort of action game that just didn't work out with the isometric view.

    Actually, the tale of Spellbound Studios's demise is really sad.

    https://www.mobygames.com/company/spellbound-entertainment-ag

     
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  24. 1451 Seeker In My Safe Space

    1451
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    Piranha isn't experimenting with the Gothic recipe because it's already almost perfect.
    The addition of the jetpack in Elex was positive.
    Now if only they could give a Souls like feeling to their games while keeping the quick save feature would be great.
     
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  25. Peachcurl Arbiter

    Peachcurl
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    Don't see this in the game wiki pages.

    The english wiki page of Anno 2205 says "The game is being developed by Blue Byte, primarily at its Mainz studio, the developer of Anno 1701 and Anno 1404".
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anno_2205

    Since the tense in the sentence above is wrong, it may be outdated. I checked the German wiki next.
    German wiki: "Das Spiel wurde von dem deutschen Studio Blue Byte Mainz (ehemals Related Designs) entwickelt"
    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anno_2205

    Ubisoft Mainz also lists Anno 1800 in their portfolio
    https://mainz.ubisoft.com/en/portfolio/anno-1800/

    See also "vom deutschen Entwicklerstudio Ubisoft Blue Byte Mainz (ehemals Related Designs) entwickelt"
    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anno_1800

    Looks to me as if it is mainly Ubisoft Mainz. Even for 2205 and 1800.
     
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