Devs ask: Are AAA titles too long for the average gamer?

[Zed]

I think DA had a good length. DA2 was too short, but it was kind of merciful at the same time.

 

[Gord]

There's no accounting for quality here, 100 hours of shit that passes for "engrossing exploration" becomes a mark of good design

A lot of them seemed to enjoy it, de gustibus non est disputandum I guess?

This issue goes to the root of RPG, PnP. If the GM had worked hours creating a massive dungeon, but the players decided to go do some other shit, either the GM forces the players back to the dungeon or creates a whole new content on-the-fly for them to explore.

It's indeed why (aside from being complex) true C&C is avoided by devs. They want to tell you a certain story, their way, C&C doesn't fit in there.
Anyway I blame that stupid idea that games have to be like movies for many of the problems we have with them right now.

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

Too much story in AAA games as it is. So much time and resources are spent on story and cinematics that gameplay falls by the wayside.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

I thought the "I'm a big boy so I don't have time for a 40 hour game. I'll just play 4 games that last 10 hours each, that way I'll have more time left for other stuff" retards were still a minority. Is the industry in such need of money that they have to cater to these people?

 

[MetalCraze]

SMAC had as much plot as Civilisation. Which isn't surprising, being it a Civilisation clone.

I recommend you to play SMAC first before you state your clearly educated opinion.
Saying that SMAC has as much story as Civilisation is like saying that System Shock 2 has as much story as Doom.

 

[Admiral jimbob]

I thought the "I'm a big boy so I don't have time for a 40 hour game. I'll just play 4 games that last 10 hours each, that way I'll have more time left for other stuff" retards were still a minority. Is the industry in such need of money that they have to cater to these people?

Remember EA's press release saying that Mass Effect 2, at something like five million units, didn't sell enough to sate their pain-harvesters?

Yeah.

 

[MetalCraze]

I thought the "I'm a big boy so I don't have time for a 40 hour game. I'll just play 4 games that last 10 hours each, that way I'll have more time left for other stuff" retards were still a minority. Is the industry in such need of money that they have to cater to these people?

They are just as "minority" as "I work too hard. I come after work and just want to turn my brain off with simple games" retards

 

[Machocruz]

People are bitch made these days. My grandfather powerlifted for 2 hours after doing constructionm for 9 hours in the Texas heat. I think people can handle an hour of LARP and tit high walls a night

 

[Metro]

Too much story in AAA games as it is. So much time and resources are spent on story and cinematics that gameplay falls by the wayside.

This. Mass Effect being a prime example. It was basically a series of massive plot/exposition dump conversations (loaded with fake/illusory choice and consequence) chained together with shitty corridor combat. And even then if you throw out the planet scanning filler the game is only about fifteen hours, arguably less.

But, it doesn't matter since most gamers today are idiots with short attention spans. Some guy on another forum pondered whether he should buy Portal 2 if he never could bring himself to finish Portal 1 a game that takes maybe two and a half hours to finish at a casual pace.

 

[Annonchinil]

Currently I mostly play casual games and light wargames. Defence Grid is rather fun. Don't know why but am increasingly finding games boring, even the classics.

 

[Excidium]

Currently I mostly play casual games and light wargames. Defence Grid is rather fun. Don't know why but am increasingly finding games boring, even the classics.

That means it's time for you to move on, and leave video games for kids and nerds. That's what people should do...

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

I thought the "I'm a big boy so I don't have time for a 40 hour game. I'll just play 4 games that last 10 hours each, that way I'll have more time left for other stuff" retards were still a minority. Is the industry in such need of money that they have to cater to these people?

Probably addicts that can't control themselves and spend half night playing games instead of going to sleep and going to work in good condition.

 

[Oriebam]

I thought the "I'm a big boy so I don't have time for a 40 hour game. I'll just play 4 games that last 10 hours each, that way I'll have more time left for other stuff" retards were still a minority. Is the industry in such need of money that they have to cater to these people?

Probably addicts that can't control themselves and spend half night playing games instead of going to sleep and going to work in good condition.

They're probably pretty rare, especially as legit customers

 

[deus101]

Not that i am a model for this, BUT WHY IS PACING YOUR GAMING A PROBLEM?!

A game last 100 hours? and you only got time to play 2-3 hours a day?...

I mean...WHATS THE PROBLEM?!
that just means you have something to look forward to eachday for a long time.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Still, what's the point of a 100 hour campaign?

I thought the "I'm a big boy so I don't have time for a 40 hour game. I'll just play 4 games that last 10 hours each, that way I'll have more time left for other stuff" retards were still a minority. Is the industry in such need of money that they have to cater to these people?

Probably addicts that can't control themselves and spend half night playing games instead of going to sleep and going to work in good condition.

They're probably pretty rare, especially as legit customers

More like they are most of gamers?

 

[Oriebam]

Still, what's the point of a 100 hour campaign?

I thought the "I'm a big boy so I don't have time for a 40 hour game. I'll just play 4 games that last 10 hours each, that way I'll have more time left for other stuff" retards were still a minority. Is the industry in such need of money that they have to cater to these people?

Probably addicts that can't control themselves and spend half night playing games instead of going to sleep and going to work in good condition.

They're probably pretty rare, especially as legit customers

More like they are most of gamers?

This is awkward.

The kind of addict you described(has to finish a game soon to feel he's having fun or w/e and plays shit all the time) probably plays a lot of different titles(new,known games, probably) per week(or some other short amount of time) inherently, and he probably doesn't pay for them

Of course multiplayer games kind of negate this argument, but we're talking about SP campaigns

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Still, what's the point of a 100 hour campaign?

I thought the "I'm a big boy so I don't have time for a 40 hour game. I'll just play 4 games that last 10 hours each, that way I'll have more time left for other stuff" retards were still a minority. Is the industry in such need of money that they have to cater to these people?

Probably addicts that can't control themselves and spend half night playing games instead of going to sleep and going to work in good condition.

They're probably pretty rare, especially as legit customers

More like they are most of gamers?

This is awkward.

The kind of addict you described(has to finish a game soon to feel he's having fun or w/e and plays shit all the time) probably plays a lot of different titles(new,known games, probably) per week(or some other short amount of time) inherently, and he probably doesn't pay for them

No. This behaviour is more typical for players who play long games like Syndicate Wars, X-Com, Fallout 2, Baldur's Gate 2, Morrowind, etc. It's about games and game settings "sucking in" people.

 

[sea]

Story needs to come out of the gameplay. Narrative is something formed by the player while navigating the challenges the game presents. The approach most developers take to creating stories in games is all wrong - the "interactive movie" approach is often about as much fun as it is. Rather, the game's story must provide context for the player to operate within, setting up logical structural and gameplay boundaries while providing impetus to move forward. The more often you have to take control away from the player for a cutscene, have voices blabbing exposition in his or her ear, or a highly scripted sequence with one and only one way to win (without freedom or an illusion of it), you're one step closer to failing as a videogame storyteller.

Deus Ex is probably one of the best games I've come across which manages to work within the template described above. Yes, Deus Ex has plot points, and occasional bits of exposition, but what really makes that game is the player's ability to move through the game at his or her own pace, using tactics and abilities of his or her choosing. The story of such a game isn't so much in the events or the characters, but in how the player chooses to navigate those boundaries and obstacles. Fallout also thrives within such a framework.

Mind you, there is a very big difference between players taking on the roles of actors, and taking on the roles of authors. This is why, for me, many sandbox games fall apart when it comes to storytelling despite being driven wholly by player action in a free environment - with few to no story constraints, fixed objectives, etc., the burden falls on the player to create interesting challenges, objectives, etc. When I mention that freedom in gameplay is key to storytelling, I don't mean to suggest that absolute freeform gameplay without constraint is the pinnacle of videogames or videogame narrative - that in itself can introduce a whole lot of other problems, ones I don't think most developers have got the hang of dealing with yet.

 

[DragoFireheart]

Wasn't Fallout 1 a relatively short game? 20 hours at most or so?

 

[sea]

Wasn't Fallout 1 a relatively short game? 20 hours at most or so?

You're probably right in pointing out that Fallout 2 would have been a better example; in terms of gameplay and structure the two are pretty much the same, though, so I think the point still stands. Truth be told, I just don't like Fallout 2 that much even though its gameplay is significantly better than the original's, and I don't find it nearly as replayable; it just didn't come to mind.

 

[Wyrmlord]

That depends, DFH.

The first time I played Fallout, I faced plenty of headscratching situations, whose solution didn't seem immediately available. It was a lot of attempts of trying this and trying that before I got things right.

In areas like the Military Base, I'd attempt several ways to infiltrate the area, with several save slots. One save slot would have me coming back to the area after doing a few other missions and another save slot would have me doing it earlier. With one slot, I'd try to do it at lower level without high speech skill but with robes and with one I'd try with the high speech skill. And so on. I'd do that, until I found the best way to handle the base.

All that greatly added to the hours spent on the game. Had I known everything in advance, it would indeed be a 20-hour game.

 

[ChristofferC]

Thread lacks a poll!

 

[felipepepe]

The first time I played Fallout, I faced plenty of headscratching situations, whose solution didn't seem immediately available.

Exactly, even the rope to climb down on Vault 15 I spend some time looking for on my first playthrough.

 

[commie]

And what would they add to a game?

... a good story? For RPG's at least I'd say that's pretty damn important.

WTF? The Might and Magic series invariably had you visiting the four elemental planes and some other places to find the magical whatsits with which you could defeat the big bad. Even so, those games are fucking great. A good story is more important for an adventure game, far less so for an RPG where the mechanics of actual gameplay should take precedence.

 

[Metro]

Wasn't Fallout 1 a relatively short game? 20 hours at most or so?

First playthrough? Probably more than that. Never mind the replayability of it whereas most modern games -- even 'RPGs' are fairly linear experiences.