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Diablo 2 just turned 20

Daedalos

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Average Manatee

Diablo II's drop rate was tuned with the expectation that you would be playing online and trading with other players.

If you want to farm gear in a smooth upgrade ramp, you'll need to play a mod that supports that.

I highly highly recommend Median XL 1.F9, it addresses every problem you listed.

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/diablo-2-just-turned-20.133758/#post-6785208

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/diablo-2-just-turned-20.133758/page-2#post-6787655



Why is Median XL 1.F9 always mentioned on this forum? I checked moddb page of older median xl versions. Until Median XL Ultimative XII every version here belongs to BrotherLaz. Why not Median XL 2012 ?? Why specifically MEdian XL 1.F9? What happened after XL 1.F9?


https://forum.median-xl.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=34509&p=279536#p279536

watched more median xl videoes both old and new. I am not convinced in any way that this should be a better diablo 2 experience than vanilla or QOL modded vanilla like Path of Diablo and Diablo Project.

Watching youtube videos and playing something are two very different things. At the very highest level, gameplay is quite fast, but by then you are trained for it.

It's basically the same fucking thing. I don't care about speedclickin and shit, im not autist and i dont enjoy speedrunning. I enjoy feel, atmosphere, good design and that stuff.

Nothing beats vanilla D2 in terms of that, NOTHING, except improved vanilla mods like Path of Diablo. Literally nothing bad about the improvements they made, and the improvements should have been there at vanilla d2 release, it would have made everybody happy.

So yeah. Enjoy your pixel spam-click fest, I'll enjoy my Diablo 2 as it was supposed and imagined to be. Perfect.
 

thesheeep

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In celebration of D2 turning 20, I played through D3 again (did that once on the initial release).
What a horrible experience in every perceivable way.
Terrible character building (as in, it doesn't actually exist, you just pick everything for free at any time, no commitment necessary whatsoever), terrible story with terrible endings for old characters, terrible graphics style, complete lack of challenge (on Expert, wtf?) and still no satisfying summoner class.

So... what a great present for D2 to still be, by quite a margin, the best game in the franchise.
 

TemplarGR

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(as in, it doesn't actually exist, you just pick everything for free at any time, no commitment necessary whatsoever)

Not everyone is a useless unemployed autistic bum.

The "commitment" you speak of, is tens of hours of grinding to create a character from scratch, mindlessly clicking like a robot on enemies. I understand that your life is completely worthless and you might as well waste it all on mindless grinding, but speak for yourself, not for the vast majority of normal people.
 
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In celebration of D2 turning 20, I played through D3 again (did that once on the initial release).
What a horrible experience in every perceivable way.
Terrible character building (as in, it doesn't actually exist, you just pick everything for free at any time, no commitment necessary whatsoever), terrible story with terrible endings for old characters, terrible graphics style, complete lack of challenge (on Expert, wtf?) and still no satisfying summoner class.

So... what a great present for D2 to still be, by quite a margin, the best game in the franchise.

The ability to switch skills on the fly worked for me. Having my builds interrupted and imperiled with every D2 software update was a problem. In D3, classes like the witch doctor had a decent variation of abilities that required experimentation. For classes like the wizard, where all skills are basically the same with a different animation--it was less valuable. I also did like having one character, and not having to rebuild or move gear just to try something out. With attributes being forced on autopilot, this wasn't a bad choice. Putting attributes on autopilot certainly was.

That's about the sum of D3's positives though. Unappealing classes, gimmicky resource systems, ruinous narrative, awful art, soul-less atmosphere, forgettable music, absent challenge, micro-transauction house, online only, mediocre monsters, etc. It's rather incredible how much they missed the mark. The most stark example is The Butcher. D1 Butcher was a frightening experience full of stress, simplistic as it was. The atmosphere, the audio. The brutal lethality. Contrast this to the D3 butcher, which was a low-brow parody. A cartoon insult. "Vegetable bad! Meat good!" I knew at that point, there would be no redeeming qualities in the following acts.
 

thesheeep

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(as in, it doesn't actually exist, you just pick everything for free at any time, no commitment necessary whatsoever)

Not everyone is a useless unemployed autistic bum.

The "commitment" you speak of, is tens of hours of grinding to create a character from scratch, mindlessly clicking like a robot on enemies. I understand that your life is completely worthless and you might as well waste it all on mindless grinding, but speak for yourself, not for the vast majority of normal people.
This is so wonderfully dumb, let me give you a kiss for making my completely worthless and unemployed day.
IdolizedPointedGallinule-size_restricted.gif
 

thesheeep

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The ability to switch skills on the fly worked for me. Having my builds interrupted and imperiled with every D2 software update was a problem.
But the solution to that would be to hand out some respecs on update changes, similar to how you get free cards on CCGs when they change their cards for balancing.

But the D3 path is just handing out freebies for no work whatsoever.
It's the equivalent of a Pachinko machine - you do absolutely nothing, don't need to put any thought into anything and can just go wild. I don't enjoy that freebie system at all.

As a fan of RPGs, I want my level-ups to feel rewarding and I want to put some thoughts into my choices during level-up.
Sure, the end game grind in D3 and games like D2 or Path Of Exile might be similar, as there's not much of a difference at that point due to all the respecs you got anyway, but I really don't care about that end game grind.

For me, it is all in seeing my character grow from level 1 to the end of the game (end of story and maybe some post-story content until I get bored) and seeing the choices I made for the build come to fruition.
D3 makes the entire process of leveling up your character (which is my favourite process in games like these) devoid of any feeling of reward, because nothing that I receive was my choice, I didn't need to invest anything but time to get all abilities just available to me. Not a single thought was given - it's just some random unlock on a random level.

But you are right with the rest.
Even if the leveling felt rewarding, the rest of the game would still be worse than D2 or PoE (or any other game in the genre, tbh.).
 
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negator2vc

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Nothing can beat Diablo 2 when it come to atmosphere!!!! Nothing!!!!!
Even today with the amazing improvements in graphics Diablo 2 is still the king!!
As for Median XL I played this Mod and while it increase a little the visual part of the vanilla D2 (for example the 1st hub look a little better that the tent town of vanilla D2) the addition of billions new skills really hurt the game.
The characters lost focus on their skill selection (for example the sorceress now has trees for poison and melee - why??????, and necro I think to remember has a melee and a crossbow skill tree - again why?????). Similar things I remember seen in other characters.
 

coldcrow

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Back when Median was developed by brother Laz I was involved in testing. I think it was around Median 2 SE to MEdian 2007. Around that time Laz lost it to what made the original versions great. He wanted popularity for the mod. Especially Median 2 SE was hard and unforgiving and was in dire need of balance and fixing bugs. The bugs got fixed over time but by Median 2008 the mod became a bloated mess of shit and epilepsy inducing novas everywhere. He even hit the rollover point for damage by inflating everything.
I like the consistent harsh difficulty curve of the originals, sometimes I wish I'd had the energy to learn to mod D2 and fix Median 2 SE.
 

negator2vc

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Nothing can beat Diablo 2 when it come to atmosphere!!!! Nothing!!!!!

Diablo I has better atmosphere

Diablo 1 has very different atmosphere that Diablo 2. Both are great just different style!!
Diablo 1 is far closer to the dungeon crawler style like the original roguelikes (and rogue itself). In fact the whole game is one big dungeon!
Diablo 2 on the other hand has far more open spaced areas with a few dungeons now and then.
 

Storyfag

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Nothing can beat Diablo 2 when it come to atmosphere!!!! Nothing!!!!!

Diablo I has better atmosphere

Diablo 1 has very different atmosphere that Diablo 2. Both are great just different style!!
Diablo 1 is far closer to the dungeon crawler style like the original roguelikes (and rogue itself). In fact the whole game is one big dungeon!
Diablo 2 on the other hand has far more open spaced areas with a few dungeons now and then.

In other breaking news, grass is green.
 

Pentium

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Happy anniversary. If you were there back in the day, good news: you're officialy an old fart (it doesn't matter if you are merely in your 30s now).

I simply cannot believe, how many fucking years have passed since i cleared the Den of Evil quest for the first time, playing as barbarian through Diablo 2 demo version.
Lol, that demo. I would play it over and over again like a goddamd autistic until I could get my hands on full D2, can't remeber the build anymore, my play disc long damaged beyond readability. One of the very few games I have ever actually purchased (yeah, I'm that guy), that was before the internet world opened for me. My goal in that demo was to get to a high enough lvl to kill Raven with a single Bash strike. Dunno if it was possible or what lvl I reached (was the max lvl capped?), Hungry Deads only giving me 1 exp per kill.

Everything good's been mentioned - atmoshpere, soundtrack... - what else to add? Sometimes I regret I have never played it so intensively through Hell with various builds (on various game builds) but I have much more tools of destruction to kill my time with, not only gaming. I bet half of you fags looks like your next evolution stage is gonna be a pig :cool: (unless you starve all day and night drinking some redbull's piss).

Also I remember the incredible fckn hype in gaming magazines in my country regarding D2 starting maybe like one and half years before it's release lol.

People salivating over 20 year old archaic obsolete games....
?
i am a massive Skyrim fan
:M

2000 was a good year:

Deus Ex (Ion Storm)
Thief II: Metal Age (Looking Glass Studios)
Diablo II (Blizzard North)
Icewind Dale (Black Isle Studios)
Baldur's Gate 2 (BioWare)

It was nestled in prime Renaissance. Greatness came a couple years before, and greatness came a couple after.

Good times.

Every year back then was a killer year.

It was truly a privilege to witness it first hand.

^^diz
I was still a pretty little brat back then but the 90s/early 2000s were an awesome time for videogames, not only RPGs. The technology leaps were mindblowing, most notably in FPSs: Doom engine -> Quake engine -> GoldSrc, Unreal Engine; 2D -> 2.5D -> 3D etc. Every fucking year an advancement obvious even to your grandma. Today you care for fps and antialiasing, the polygon count of an NPC's hairstyle beyond of that of entire levels back then, nowhere much left to go, the only real new frontier being VR. And unlike today the gameplay was nowehre behind, quite the contrary (even though I can imagine some pants-on-had crazy roguelike nutcases claiming that anything outside ASCII was always casual bullshit). I'm not even intersted in modern games anymore with possible exeptions that are always to be stumbled upon. Sometimes I feel like I'm trying to explain the old mechanical mouse to Enterprise crew members.
 

Daedalos

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It is kind of impressive that nothing still manages to beat Diablo 2 in the ARPG/Hack 'N Slash genre.

Diablo 2 was lightning in a bottle. Will it ever return? Maybe, probably not. Why play garbage like Path of Exile, when you can just play the original masterpiece? It even still has better animations and graphics and path of exile.
 
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Pentium

Learned
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Back in my day we didnt have them gorram graphics! And we liked it that way!
Depends on what "back in your day" means . For somebody "backy in my day" still means playing marbles and computers based on vacuum tubes. Gfx totally IS important for me but that doesn't mean I fall for the most visually appealing AAA shit, gameplay is always the most important factor. I'll always pick a good ol' DOS piece over a complete bs running on the best 3D engine ever. What I particulary hate is the overuse of cheesy visual effect thats D2 did have too but it was done in a relatively modest way and it just looked cool also thanks to the color palette etc. That's also one of the reasons I've always liked the Dark Souls series with it's beautiful visuals because it looks so...normal.
 

Grotesque

±¼ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Divinity: Original Sin Divinity: Original Sin 2
cain-2.jpg


My name is Deckard Cain Elder, and I am 16 years old. When I was just a baby, Blizzard had a surprise drawing for Diablo with very vague details. All anyone knew was that if they wanted to be a part of the drawing, they had to send a postcard to Blizzard with their name on it, and after a said date, they would pick a card at random to win the prize. Being a very big Blizzard fan, my father decided to take part in this. He thought about it for a while, and decided that since my name is so unique, he would send the postcard in with my name on it instead of his. My first name comes from the Harrison Ford’s character in the movie Blade Runner, my middle name is my mother’s maiden name, and my last name is my fathers family name.

It had been about 4 or 5 months after my father had sent in this postcard with my name on it to Blizzard, and he had begun to forget about it, and accepted that, because of the period of time since he had sent the card in, we hadn’t won this unknown prize. About 6 months after the drawing, a box arrived at my parents apartment in South Dakota. Not having ordered anything, they were curious as to why it had shown up. When they opened the box there were five things inside. A long yellow envelope, a copy of Diablo, a black hat with Blizzard in blue printed on the front, a very large Diablo T-shirt, and a blue statue of Diablo that stood a little over a foot tall. Inside the envelope was a letter from Bill Roper, the producer of Diablo, that explained that I had been chosen for the drawing prize. (I will have an imgur link to pictures of the Diablo statue, me holding the letter, and the letter up close for you to read.) The letter basically explained that the prize for being chosen in this drawing, was to have your name in the game. I honestly feel that, because of my unique name, Blizzard saw my name on the postcard and thought it suited the character they were looking to name. But either way, it’s seriously cool. So if you ever wondered how Blizzard named Deckard Cain, you now know.

diablo-contest.jpg

 
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Dramart

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Your priority when facing Diablo is getting items that max out Fire and Lightning protection. Then his foul breath is not very dangerous, and a strong melee character can chop him up quickly without having to disengage once.
EDIT: Oh, and some Magic Damage Reduction too.
That's what I did he kills me too fast anyways, even with my assassin havin like 70 in lightning resist is destroyed by that lightning attack, and even if I fight melee I lose and potions don't heal quickly enough. I think I'm underleveled. The other day I gained two levels while listening to music, I will beat him eventually.
 

DraQ

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Terrible character building (as in, it doesn't actually exist, you just pick everything for free at any time, no commitment necessary whatsoever)
That merely makes it unambiguously not an RPG.
Not that I would ever defend D3 in any way.

Diablo I has better atmosphere
The only place where D II had better atmosphere than D I was cutscenes.

It is kind of impressive that nothing still manages to beat Diablo 2 in the ARPG/Hack 'N Slash genre.
D1 did before D2 got released. Funny that.

Nothing can beat Diablo 2 when it come to atmosphere!!!! Nothing!!!!!
Even today with the amazing improvements in graphics Diablo 2 is still the king!!
As for Median XL I played this Mod and while it increase a little the visual part of the vanilla D2 (for example the 1st hub look a little better that the tent town of vanilla D2) the addition of billions new skills really hurt the game.
The characters lost focus on their skill selection (for example the sorceress now has trees for poison and melee - why??????, and necro I think to remember has a melee and a crossbow skill tree - again why?????). Similar things I remember seen in other characters.
Hello there. On the run from your tardwrangler?
 
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Jan 7, 2012
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I refer Diablo is hard if you speedrun without grinding like I did, I was level 26 and 28 with my characters, that electric attack he does is very powerful and also his melee attack. I had the intention to grind but when I saw the experience I needed to get to the next level I said no thanks, maybe another time.

Your priority when facing Diablo is getting items that max out Fire and Lightning protection. Then his foul breath is not very dangerous, and a strong melee character can chop him up quickly without having to disengage once.
EDIT: Oh, and some Magic Damage Reduction too.

Cold damage to slow him down too. Even if its only 1-2 on a small charm, it applies the same cold length as higher damage charms. Multiple sources stack tot, do e.g. 3 charms of 1-2 damage and 1 socketed sapphire will do a lot (sapphires do increase cold length with quality).

Your priority when facing Diablo is getting items that max out Fire and Lightning protection. Then his foul breath is not very dangerous, and a strong melee character can chop him up quickly without having to disengage once.
EDIT: Oh, and some Magic Damage Reduction too.
That's what I did he kills me too fast anyways, even with my assassin havin like 70 in lightning resist is destroyed by that lightning attack, and even if I fight melee I lose and potions don't heal quickly enough. I think I'm underleveled. The other day I gained two levels while listening to music, I will beat him eventually.

Diablo's lightning is pretty bullshit and destroys everyone unless you have high -magic damage taken (because its lots of individual packets so -damage applies to each packet). He's the only real enemy in the game in which flat -damage is actually useful like this, aside from I guess the act 3 shamans with fire attacks.

I'd recommend slowing him as I recommend above and having burst of speed + ideally some faster run/walk boots on and quickly disengaging when he goes for that move. Like everything else in D2, its easier to not get hit than it is to farm gear to survive the damage. If you are fighting him at 25-30 you're at the right level (in fact Act 5 kind of bugs out if you reach it below level 25), but if you want to XP grind then play around with upping the /players x number. EDIT: here's an XP chart https://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Guide:Diablo_2_Level_Up_Guide_v1.10

In general its not that diablo 2 speedrunning is hard or requires grinding but rather that you chose a build that relies on equipment rather than skills to succeed. If you were running a trapsin then you'd have 5 traps each shooting lightning for like 500 damage apiece while you could run around naked with 0 resists and effortlessly laugh at bosses that disintegrate. In terms of game balance Diablo 2 is one of the most broken games ever.
 
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pomenitul

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I played the shit out of Diablo 1 when it came out (I was an impressionable tween at the time), but by the time D2 dropped I had lost interest in the formula, so I never made it past the first half of Act I until recently. I must say, with only a shred of nostalgia to fall back on, I enjoyed my belated full playthrough as a skelemancer yet hardly more so than RoS, which is in fact a solid entry in the genre when patched (that said, PoE and especially GD both top it). Indeed, with D1 as my tried-and-true yardstick for what a numbered Diablo game ought to be, it's hard not to view the whinging about D3 being a betrayal of D2 as anything more than overstatement in retrospect.

The stern single-mindedness of a single player's slow-burning descent into the Abyss, the sense of imminent ruin that stems from an all-pervasive, visible darkness, the clattering soundscapes that occasionally dispense with tonality altogether – by contrast, LoD's Neo-Wagnerian score, with its heavy-handed quotations of 'Mars, the Bringer of War', Tristan und Isolde and Pelléas et Mélisande, among others, is a compendium of filmic clichés – are all but lost in the 'progression' from D1 to D2. What was gained in terms of gameplay arguably compensates for this newly stunted atmosphere, which is already more colourful than it needs to be, but let's not kid ourselves: none of it even so much as approximates the gruelling katabasis that takes you from Tristram (civilisation) to the Cathedral (its metaphysical underpinnings), the Catacombs (the death thereof), the Caves (intimations of wilderness) and, ultimately, Hell (the savagely searing Outside where there is no room for Man, where his triumph is a trap), which had an unimpeachable, minimalist logic to it. By contrast, D2's pragmatic maximalism stops short of impelling the least bit of claustrophobia throughout – instead, it treats the player like a mere tourist on a sightseeing quest.

Nor have I ever cared for multiplayer in this genre and even less so for trading (which is why I favour GD, incidentally), so neither of those arguments points towards D2's purported superiority as far as I'm concerned. I even prefer D3's endgame with its bounties and rifts to the eternal return of Baal runs. Anyhow, I had a good time with D2 and am glad to have made up for a twenty-year old missed connection, but I doubt I'll be revisiting it again any time soon.
 

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