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Diablo 2 just turned 20

Jermu

Prophet
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Aug 13, 2017
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2,174
I fail to see why melee splash is a problem melee still worse for pretty much everything compared to ranged especially early game
melee splash is one of the things that makes melee not completely shit vs ranged which is good if the aim is to have decent balance between skills and classes
 

octavius

Arcane
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Aug 4, 2007
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Bjørgvin
So how would you guys rank the classes by how fun they are to play?

My ranking (SP):
1. Amazon. All the builds are fun, they kill things quickly, and the only buffing is to recast the Valk occasionally.

2. Paladin. Most of the builds are fun, except the Hammerdin, and there's no micro management. Haven't tried the Charger. The Smiter, though very effective against champs, uniques and bosses, can be a bit tedious, and the Avenger does not kill things as quickly as the Zealots, and is super reliant on a good weapon. The Fire Auradin is starting to struggle on Nightmare, while the "Tesladin" is all powerful.

3. Sorceress. I've always favoured the Cold Sorceress. Both Blizzard and Frozen Orb rock. For Fire I find the Enchantress, both melee and missile versions, most fun to play. I struggle with making a good Lightning Sorceress, though.

4. Assassin, Druid
The Trap Assassin is severely bugged in classic D2. But the Kicksin kicks ass.
I found the Wind Druid rather boring, but the Fire Druid surprisingly powerful. The Were druids are fun, but not the easiest ones to play.

6. Barbarian. Probably great for MP, but for SP they are surprisingly weak. The Throw Barb is weaker than any of the Amazon builds, the War Cry barb is weaker than just about any of the spell caster builds, the Double Swing barb is surprisingly weak, the Frenzy one is too fast for me to control properly. Concentrate + Polearm is surprisingly effective, though. And Whirlwind is still my fave Barb build, even now that I know how it works (having two short weapons is much better than one long polearm). Berserk is quite fun, but finding a good 1H Axe is a struggle.
Overall too much micro-management with constant rebuffing, and Find Item.

7. Necro. Too much micro management with all the minions, especially once you start playing with Revives. Poison Dagger is made utterly redundant by Poison Nova, since from 1.10 they are they same builds skill wise. Poison Nova is quite fun, but my favourite Necro build is the Bone Spear/Spirit necro.
 

ghardy

Learned
Joined
Jun 18, 2024
Messages
596
I once tried a pure Martial Arts Assassin, with dual claws, Tiger Strikes, Cobra Strikes, etc. Playing it was fun but aggravating.

Necro. Too much micro management with all the minions, especially once you start playing with Revives.
I usually play simple skellemancers that rely on physical damage, add a clay golem, and top up with Corpse Explosion. There's barely any management, let alone micro.

How 'fun' it is is a separate matter...
 

octavius

Arcane
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I once tried a pure Martial Arts Assassin, with dual claws, Tiger Strikes, Cobra Strikes, etc. Playing it was fun but aggravating.

Aggravating how? The constant screaming, or switching between skills?
Personally I like both the Venom MA Assassin (kills most enemies very quickly), and the Phoenix Strike (good for crowd control) Assassin. Tiger Strike just takes too much time; I'm not sure if the end result is much better than just regular Dragon Claw attacks. Cobra Strike can be useful, though.
 

ghardy

Learned
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Jun 18, 2024
Messages
596
ggravating how? The constant screaming, or switching between skills?
The second. Charge up three balls on one skill, shift to second, charge three balls again, shift to third, land a hit to release the load of balls owing to the timers. And remember to recast the hastening skill for the speed boost.

(I remarked elsewhere that this kind of thing was off-putting in Doom Eternal as well.)
 

mastroego

Arcane
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
10,486
Location
Italy
So I've been playing Project Diablo 2 for quite a while.
I feel like reporting a little (?) about it.
I won't repeat the points I listed earlier, the QoL changes and so on. They're far from irrelevant of course but I'll try to be as brief as I can.


Post-Hell Maps.
This is the main addition of course. The fabled "endgame" content.
It works like this. Tier 1 maps (rarely) drop in high level areas. They give access to (manually crafted) level 87 areas. You can open a portal to the maps with a character who's beaten Hell Ancients (or Hell Bhaal?)
They are mostly huge. They use existing game assets but some of them do manage to feel different somehow.
It's good work I'd say.
Plenty of monsters inside, and a Boss.
Chances for new maps to drop are higher inside a map. So, when you open one, you'll hope to find at least another one - for "sustainable mapping", so to speak. But no guarantees.
Tier 2 and Tier 3 maps (level 88, level 89) can only be found in map zones.


Map alterations.
Maps can be normal or magical, which implies higher monster density, or extra resistances... all kinds of stuff. But higher rewards too (like increased experience, increased Magic Find, etc.).
You can modify maps, before using them, with items sold by Anya, or with other items that can be found.


Map Events.
There are a few kinds of Events that may sometimes trigger in a map zone. For instance, Gheed might show up, with a special gambling offer. He'll have a few gambling items on sale for 1.000.000 each.
Guaranteed Uniques, but you can't know Item Quality beforehand. So you'll mostly get Normal uniques, but they might also be Exceptional or Elite.
Another example: there's an event that gives a chance to drop an Uber ingredient (more on this later).


Corruptions.
Now, I haven't investigated the lore behind this (I'm sure there is). Basically you can try to grant more power to your items, but it's a gamble: you might ruin them for good.
So you'll probably try this with average items, or even with great items if you happen to have suitable spares, or if you feel especially daring.
For those who play online, this creates a market for truly fantastic and sought after items.
Charms cannot be corrupted, for understandable balance reasons.


New Items and Runewords.
I've found a few. They often come with new (and nice) art.
They seem well balanced and mostly aimed at filling some "holes".
For instance, there was no Unique Normal Javelin. Now there's True Silver (unique Maiden Javelin), which has no "plus Skills" modifier, but comes with Magic Find. So you might want to use it for a MF build with the usual trade-off in terms of power.


Ubers and new Ubers.
The originals are still there, though rebalanced.
The Keys can be obtained from a few more bosses, and they're still the most "easily accessible Uber ingredients": with this I mean that sure, you'll need a good number of targeted runs, but you know where to go with a reasonable chance for one of them to drop.
Then there are the new Ubers. They each need 3 specific, separated ingredients to gain access to their encounters, with potential special rewards.
These ingredients are hard to find (frustratingly so?) and require, it seems, intensive farming.
One drops only in Corrupted areas. One only drops from Demons, one only from Undead. One drops only in Tier 1 maps, one in Tier 2 maps, one in Tier 3 maps. One only drops from map bosses and one only from a specific map event.
Another one only drops in Red Portals zones. One only drops, sometimes, from slain bosses in Uber Tristam.
It's a bit of a mess, to be honest. On the other hand, it forces varied play instead of repetitive Mephisto runs and the like.


The Good AND the Bad: addictiveness and degenerate play
I've played single Player Diablo II, on and off, for years. Learned about PlugY a few years ago, and this started me on a new "wave" of Diablo sessions, and even to try the experience of "repeated boss runs", like I knew online players use to do all the time.
But still it remained more or less a contained thing.
Lately I'd say that I've definitely been playing too much. I've not been playing anything else (which I resent) and I've been stealing time from other stuff I needed/wanted to do.
I've found myself doing targeted runs for a unique item.
Looked online for a calculator, found out that with a 300 Magic Find the best chance was given by Nightmare Mephisto at about 1 in 600 / 1 in 700 chances.
Made a superfast builld optimized for that specific run, and got in the habit to make 10, 20 runs when I got a window of time.
And what do you know. I did find it, too, in a couple of weeks. And I've kept playing, hunting for Uber ingredients. Fun, on the one hand... on the other hand, it's been a constant generator of the famous "I shouldn't be doing this!" feeling.
I mean, better than gambling with real money I guess, but still.


The Upgrade issue.
I'd downloaded the Season 10 version and the PlugY package adapted to PD2 (In truth this was updated for S9 I believe, but it still works).
If you play SP, of course it's possible to just be content with this and never look back... But curiosity won and I checked the S11 changes (each Season is basically a reset, which I suppose makes sense for online play).
Now I'd want to try the updated version but I'd lose all I've collected until now. Also it doesn't seem like the PlugY version is being updated.


Well it's all, for now, if someone even got this far ;)
 
Last edited:

ghardy

Learned
Joined
Jun 18, 2024
Messages
596
Has anyone had Diablo 2 crash while playing? I can only recall one or two times when it crashed. (It was an illegal memory access, I think.)
 

octavius

Arcane
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Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
20,307
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Bjørgvin
Has anyone had Diablo 2 crash while playing? I can only recall one or two times when it crashed. (It was an illegal memory access, I think.)

Only once, when I was repeatedly switching back and forth between different resolutions in the Video Options menu. Never in actual play.
Must be the most stable game I ever played.
 

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