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Diablo 2 just turned 20

luj1

You're all shills
Vatnik
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
12,869
Location
Eastern block
2000 was a good year:

Deus Ex (Ion Storm)
Thief II: Metal Age (Looking Glass Studios)
Diablo II (Blizzard North)
Icewind Dale (Black Isle Studios)
Baldur's Gate 2 (BioWare)

Every year back then was a killer year.

It was truly a privilege to witness it first hand.
 
Self-Ejected

Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
5,274
Many of the best devs were at the top of their game, for sure. They had a good handle on the APIs, and their creativity was overflowing.
 
Joined
Dec 24, 2018
Messages
1,783
Never understood the appeal of this game and H&S genre itself. Fight countless trash mobs, click, click fast, collect countless loot, sell loot, repeat. It's like singleplayer MMORPG.

In Diablo 2's case it was mainly because it had superb atmosphere and tight gameplay, as well as a straightforward, simple, but well put together story. Nox as well, although Nox leaned more to the gameplay side, being essentially an isometric arena shooter. Most Diablo clones - and I include Diablo 3 as a clone rather than a proper series member since it was made by different devs trying to ape Condor's glory - tend to fuck up one or both of these elements. Typically the atmosphere isn't as good and doesn't really grip you the way Diablo 2 did, and similarly they tend not to have that fast-paced, clean, all around well done gameplay. The metagame of loot and grinding is auxiliary to Diablo 2's success, and if it had been mandatory for campaign completion the game might have had nowhere near the success that it did. As it was, people played Diablo 2 because from the moment you start it, the environment and music draw you in, the gameplay keeps things moving, and the loot system is there but it's not a requirement, it just expands the game. Likewise level grind is not a requirement. It helps sometimes, if you're underlevelled (I tend to run into this problem in late Act 2 when playing singleplayer), but is never an actual requirement; you can complete the Normal campaign without ever replaying an area, although it is more difficult.

Of course you bring up a good point as far as genre goes in that modern Diablo clones tend to misunderstand what made Diablo 2 such a massive success and think it's all about the items or the grind and try to make the "best grinding game" (Path of Exile is basically that); in the process they neglect most or all the stuff that made Diablo 2 good. They can succeed, but generally they're not really appealing to the middle of the Diablo fanbase but rather to a smaller subset of it who legitimately just played it for the grind.

Put another way if you want to make a successful Diablo 2 clone that hits the same core audience as Diablo 2 then your game should be compelling and fun with no item or levellng system at all, or a barebones Nox-style one. Then you can add those things after but they should never become intrusive against that core experience, only enhance it. Diablo 2 was a great game at its core, without all the loot stuff. That's the appeal. If you don't enjoy Diablo 2's atmosphere and/or basic gameplay then yeah you won't like the game.
 
Joined
Feb 19, 2005
Messages
4,565
Strap Yourselves In Codex+ Now Streaming!
The first act was really something else when it comes to mood and atmosphere. I always liked the other acts as well and never got what some people find so annoying about them, but the first act still gives me goosebumbs. The music, the colour palette, the monsters...perfect.

I completely agree that the cinematics were fantastic. Atmospheric and subtle, completely different from the vulgar „in your face“ cinematics from Diablo 3 or Starcraft 2.

I loved the Diablo 2 trailer which never made it into the game, but was featured on the Starcraft Disc:



It was a great time to be a video gamer.
 

Theldaran

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 10, 2015
Messages
1,772
There are plenty of games to enjoy today, though maybe not as fully-rounded and scene-changing as back then.

Still I'm sure you can find something to enjoy. I have a backlog of 170+.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Strap Yourselves In Codex+ Now Streaming!
There are plenty of games to enjoy today, though maybe not as fully-rounded and scene-changing as back then.

Still I'm sure you can find something to enjoy. I have a backlog of 170+.

Oh sure, I have a gigantic backlog, although most of it are classic games. But of course there are also new games worth playing, no argument here.

But the late 90‘s and early 2000‘s were something else, each year was PACKED with games that are now considered timeless classics. And we are talking proper, middle or big budget productions here, not indy type stuff. It was beautiful and you had to be there to really appreciate it.
 

Theldaran

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 10, 2015
Messages
1,772
There are plenty of games to enjoy today, though maybe not as fully-rounded and scene-changing as back then.

Still I'm sure you can find something to enjoy. I have a backlog of 170+.

Oh sure, I have a gigantic backlog, although most of it are classic games. But of course there are also new games worth playing, no argument here.

But the late 90‘s and early 2000‘s were something else, each year was PACKED with games that are now considered timeless classics. And we are talking proper, middle or big budget productions here, not indy type stuff. It was beautiful and you had to be there to really appreciate it.

I was there but being a kid I didn't have actual money to sink on it like I do now.

Back then I had an allowance shared with my older brother and it mostly went to buying comics, Magic cards (up to 2000), and D&D materials after.

Music also kept me alive through that difficult time (for me), so I started my record collection in 2000 too.

I wish I could have lived those times fuller. My first PC was in 1996, and I still got a good chunk of it: Mechwarrior 2, Mechwarrior Mercenaries, Privateer The Darkening, Warhammer Shadow of the Horned Rat, Rebel Assault, Baldur's Gate (the poor Pentium I @150 MHz coughed a lot), and more.

In that time I dabbled into a variety of different things, now I can do them more seriously.

My brother really was a bandwagoner with the popular games, such as The Darkening. Well, that time he got it right.

I think I only missed in the gaming department. 1997, 1998, and to a lesser degree 1999 were like the best years of my life. There have been really good years recently but not as legendary as those. I mean generally, not just in the gaming sense.
 

Vapid

Learned
Joined
Jan 18, 2017
Messages
72
It's funny that people have mentioned IWD in this thread, but no one seems to remember IWD was released on the very same day as Diablo 2. So yeah, we have a double anniversary today.
 

Turuko

Learned
Joined
Jun 12, 2019
Messages
352
Location
Verbobonc
Diablo 2 was the beginning of huge decline that continues to fester to this day, promoting clicking speed over character skill in a way that forever poisoned the fabric of CRPGs that followed. Happy 20th fucking anniversary, I guess...
it never even pretended to be an all caps RPG :?
 

Generic-Giant-Spider

Guest
Even though Diablo 1 is my preferred, it is no surprise that Diablo 2 is a classic all around... and the last time the "Diablolike" sub-genre saw much innovation since many games to this day try hard to copycat it. In this way, I both like and dislike D2. I like D2 if you look at it purely in its own shell, it's a fantastic game that has consumed hours upon hours of my livelihood but I dislike the effect it put on H&S games as a whole that were similar to it such as screen killing visual overload as the main offender. There are other things I'm not fond of in D2 such as a tonal shift from a more contained gothic horror atmosphere to a much more "epic" adventure, but it maintained its very gritty aesthetic well regardless.

Other games like it that try to be dark end up failing because their interpretation of darkness is too generic/safe and without much direction as well as obviously trying to reawaken Diablo vibes which ends up working against it. Every new Diablolike that tries to do this only ends up making me want to play the first two games again since they lack full commitment to the idea.

I loved a lot of the art for items in Diablo 2. You know it's good when you merely need to see the weapon/armor in a trade window and know right away what you're looking at. It also didn't go overboard in its presentation. No big popsicle sticks like in WoW, a Grandfather sword was a big ass zweihander that looked like it would split demons in half.
 

TemplarGR

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck Bethestard
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Let's be honest, Blizzard games were never special because they were the best games in their genres (well in Diablo II's case it actually was for a time, but that was an exception, not the rule). They had 2 special elements that made them great:

1) Extreme amounts of polish. Their games were optimized, well programmed and designed, and there were tons of attention to detail. Blizzard games were the exact opposite of rushed. The quality was palpable. You could actually feel it during gameplay.

2) Blizzard games had atmosphere and character. They were unmatched in this. For most game developers, even today, atmoshpere was an afterthought. Diablo II on the other hand was notorius for its atmosphere. It is still to this day one of the most memorable experiences. Its music was legendary (actually quality music has always added a lot of points to Blizzard games), its art was awesome and put you in the mood.

When i remember Diablo II, i don't remember the itemization, or the skills, or the character system, or anything like that. All i remember was the diabolic atmosphere, that feeling you were actually combating an ancient supreme evil and its minions in a dungeon crawling adventure. THAT was its hallmark. Diablo II has been surpassed as a video game, but its atmosphere is still top notch 20 years later.
 

TemplarGR

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck Bethestard
Joined
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Messages
5,815
Location
Cradle of Western Civilization
I got IWD by the end of 2000. Sparrow copy, of course.

I got Icewind Dale, original copy, in 2000. I actually preferred it to Diablo II. Yeah i know, i am odd. But Icewind Dale was far deeper than Diablo II and i liked its atmosphere even more. What i wrote about the atmosphere in Diablo II, its art, and its music, applies to Icewind Dale as well. It was an awesome experience but sadly people preferred the more action-y Diablo II over Icewind.
 

Theldaran

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 10, 2015
Messages
1,772
It's pretty smart to talk about Keanu Reeves when talking about 20 years ago, I'll give you that. Calling yourself immortal... eh.
 

Vapid

Learned
Joined
Jan 18, 2017
Messages
72
When i remember Diablo II, i don't remember the itemization, or the skills, or the character system, or anything like that. All i remember was the diabolic atmosphere, that feeling you were actually combating an ancient supreme evil and its minions in a dungeon crawling adventure. THAT was its hallmark. Diablo II has been surpassed as a video game, but its atmosphere is still top notch 20 years later.

My thoughts exactly. To this day I play Diablo 1/2 (as well as many other games) for their atmosphere. My first character in Diablo 2 was a paladin and, since I went into the game without reading any walkthroughs or guides, he was completely broken build-wise because I didn't know what the fuck I was doing with the skills (almost to the point of being unable to defeat Diablo). And yet I was having a blast. I think I still have the paladin's save files stashed somewhere (it was 2002-ish, I didn't have internet access back then so I played local single-player). Truth be told, had I and my friends had internet access during that era we would have ended as homeless bums without education, such was our commitment to D2. The only multiplayer we had was talking about our characters and their in-game progress. Fun times.
 

covr

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Sep 3, 2006
Messages
1,314
Location
Warszawa

Gregz

Arcane
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
8,510
Location
The Desert Wasteland
Best treasure grinder ever made

I spam this a lot, but Median XL 1.F9 for Diablo II is the best mod I have ever played.

If you like Diablo II at all, you must try this mod.

http://modsbylaz.vn.cz/
https://www.moddb.com/mods/median-xl/downloads/median-xl-1f9-latest-version


What's the diference between 1.F9 and this version https://www.median-xl.com/? The latter seems to the updated on regular basis.

Sigma is cancer. A "newer version" of something does not always mean it's better. In the case of Median, it certainly doesn't.

Median XL was originally built by Brother Laz, a genius. He was so good that Grinding Gear Games hired him to help with Path of Exile. Laz accepted the job and turned the mod over to Marco (a complete hack), and it's gone to shit ever since then. Sigma is a terrible bastardization of Laz's work. If you're going to play Median XL, please play an earlier version by Brother Laz. The version I linked (1.F9) is considered by many hardcore fans to be the best.
 
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