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Diablo 2 just turned 20

jackofshadows

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That's the new game+ feature. You can definitely exploit it, but that's not how the game is designed or balanced, and is basically cheating. That said, even if we count new game+ feature, it's still harder than D2.
I wouldn't call it exploit if let's say so happened that witch stubbornly won't sell spells you need/want. Or you play as a warrior and just can't drop/buy a decent weapon. Just reset until you get it, the game is heavily randomized in that regard and was designed with multiplayer in mind when you start over every session anyway. Moreover, untill you get to hell difficulty, you have to prepare your char and it's next to impossible by just playing through first two runs.
I would indeed consider the 'normal' difficulty the standard game. The other difficulties are just New Game + features.
Again, keep in mind multiplayer mode. Normal is piss easy for "classic" solo playthrough (although Duriel can beat unprepared players even there) but it can be scaled up to 8 players mode and it won't be nearly that easy.
 

Mastermind

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
with mage d1 was a cakewalk once I got a few decent spells. later in the game i would just buy apocalypse staves, use them + recharge until there were just 1/1 charges left, sell them, then use the money + money i picked up on the way to buy more apocalypse staves. use normal spells for small threats, apocalypse for everything else. i apocalypsed diablo to death when i got to him.
Most people struggle heavily with the mage, especially early on. You used the most over powered class, but even with him the game is tougher than D2.

D2 difficulty varies wildly with build. skeleton necro will cakewalk the whole game all the way to the end of hell with little trouble and no reliance on gear. a hammerdin (arguably strongest end game build) will have a much harder time if you don't have gear waiting for him as he levels.
 

octavius

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I like that D1 is actually reasonably challenging, rather than being a total cake walk like D2.

Huh?
Diablo 1, is a much more difficult game that Diablo 2. Hard to believe I need defend such a position. Diablo 2 is laughably easy, I was able to complete it without any problems as a 10 year old who didn't even know what he was doing.

Heh, I've completed both games on all difficulties with all classes, so I think I'm in a better position than you to judge.
D2 is far harder, at least on Nightmare and Hell. (SP, no grinding/farming/trading, only shared loot). There are some enemies you can't even defeat if they spawn with the right combo of abilities.
 
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I have never played this, but everyone fuckin circlejerks it, especially when talking about D3, might have to try it and waste even more money on things that don't enhance my life!

:despair:
 
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Mastermind That wasn’t my experience with summoner necromancer. The game was a gentle stroll until you fought anything meaningful, like an Act boss. Then you were just totally fucked.

D2 was definitely an addiction. I was gifted the game a day before we went on a week long road trip. I took the manual and read it like a bible, which is what my dad called it. It gave me my first thrill of Ironman/Hardcore mode where death was permanent. I remember leaving certain items out of my inventory on the ground in town during dangerous runs on some LAN parties. It’s funny to think of all the jobs lost and educations abandoned for this game.
 

Mastermind

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Mastermind That wasn’t my experience with summoner necromancer. The game was a gentle stroll until you fought anything meaningful, like an Act boss. Then you were just totally fucked.

D2 was definitely an addiction. I was gifted the game a day before we went on a week long road trip. I took the manual and read it like a bible, which is what my dad called it. It gave me my first thrill of Ironman/Hardcore mode where death was permanent. I remember leaving certain items out of my inventory on the ground in town during dangerous runs on some LAN parties. It’s funny to think of all the jobs lost and educations abandoned for this game.

MAYBE normal druiel would give you some trouble since you might not have decrepify yet and there are no other enemies for corpses you can exploit but clay golem + decrepify renders most bosses sitting ducks.

it might also depend on when you played it. skeletons were garbage when the game was first released and they only became good during one of the later patches.

might actually try to run a necro from normal to hell tomorrow just for the hell of it & to see if I've still got it
 
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Mastermind

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
clay golem + decrepify renders most bosses sitting ducks

Not on Hell

We'll see.

Got decent magic wand/shrunken head so far, lots of extra points to mastery and 1 or 2 to skeleton. gonna farm normal countess a bit for nadir/stength (for act 2 merc when I get him)/stealth runewords then move to normal andariel. should be level 20+ by then, underestimated how much xp you get on /players 8. i'm thinking normal might be easier than i remember it being.

edit: just went to andariel and killed her instead (lvl 18), didn't give me any trouble, worst thing that happened is that she killed the clay golem once. no decrepify either.
 
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DraQ

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I like that the enemies don't respawn so you can't just grind your way through the game. I prefer that you don't know what items and tomes you'll get, and have to adjust your build accordingly, rather than decide literally everything about your entire build/playthrough in the very beginning like in D2.
The only difference is that in D2 you can't actually save in a single mode. But you can start over in D1 with the same char any times you want and venture let's say in catacombs right away if you did unlock entrance before. Same way you can farm gold, buy any amount of books and learn your skills up to 15 etc.
That's a pretty fucking massive difference.

In D1 you need to explicitly restart the game with that character at which point you know you're no longer playing the game normally. OTOH in D2 you physically cannot avoid playing it this way. Whenever you have to take any sort of break, everything resets.

Then there is the fact that unless you're playing hardcore, you don't really die in D2, you just respawn.

This lack of persistency makes the gameplay in both fundamentally different - finding specific things in D1 is a matter of if, in D2 a matter of when.

And finally, D1 capitalizes on that by drawing deeper from its roguelike inspirations - quests are random, enemy roster is random. Even on subsequent playthroughs you feel like you're doing something new, while in D2 you're just going through the motions.
 

jackofshadows

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I like that the enemies don't respawn so you can't just grind your way through the game. I prefer that you don't know what items and tomes you'll get, and have to adjust your build accordingly, rather than decide literally everything about your entire build/playthrough in the very beginning like in D2.
The only difference is that in D2 you can't actually save in a single mode. But you can start over in D1 with the same char any times you want and venture let's say in catacombs right away if you did unlock entrance before. Same way you can farm gold, buy any amount of books and learn your skills up to 15 etc.
That's a pretty fucking massive difference.

In D1 you need to explicitly restart the game with that character at which point you know you're no longer playing the game normally. OTOH in D2 you physically cannot avoid playing it this way. Whenever you have to take any sort of break, everything resets.

Then there is the fact that unless you're playing hardcore, you don't really die in D2, you just respawn.

This lack of persistency makes the gameplay in both fundamentally different - finding specific things in D1 is a matter of if, in D2 a matter of when.

And finally, D1 capitalizes on that by drawing deeper from its roguelike inspirations - quests are random, enemy roster is random. Even on subsequent playthroughs you feel like you're doing something new, while in D2 you're just going through the motions.
You don't have to play games in order to discuss them but you better have.
 

Mastermind

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
thought i'd have to retreat but duriel is now dead with /players 8 enabled on first try. 1 skeleton and merc survived, first time i had to feed the merc pots to keep him alive. dropped a nokozan relic, 50% fire resist will come in handy vs diablo's fire nova
 
Self-Ejected

Lilura

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Not on Hell

Agreed. I've written extensively on Hell mode as it pertains to Summonmancers. It's not as easy as the Bethes'tard is trying to make out.

Mastermind

Not sure why you are being cocky about beating Act I and Act II bosses on Normal mode, 20 years after the game came out?

Tag me when you get to Hell mode. Didn't you say it'll only take you a day? Also, why not post screencaps of stats and gear when you get to Hell mode -- I'm up for a laugh.
 
Self-Ejected

Lilura

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skeleton necro will cakewalk the whole game all the way to the end of hell with little trouble and no reliance on gear

But then:

gonna farm normal countess a bit for nadir/stength (for act 2 merc when I get him)/stealth runewords then move to normal andariel. should be level 20+ by then

It's funny how you said skelemancer can "cakewalk whole game to end of Hell with little trouble and no reliance on gear", yet you farmed Countess for entry-level runewords before you had the balls to take on Act I Normal Andariel.

Reminder: You're not playing Hardcore mode, and you're rolling with the safest and easiest entry-level build possible.
 

Mastermind

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
skeleton necro will cakewalk the whole game all the way to the end of hell with little trouble and no reliance on gear

But then:

gonna farm normal countess a bit for nadir/stength (for act 2 merc when I get him)/stealth runewords then move to normal andariel. should be level 20+ by then

It's funny how you said skelemancer can "cakewalk whole game to end of Hell with little trouble and no reliance on gear", yet you farmed Countess for entry-level runewords before you had the balls to take on Act I Normal Andariel.

Reminder: You're not playing Hardcore mode, and you're rolling with the safest and easiest entry-level build possible.

hybrid zon is the safest and easiest entry-level build and I DIDN'T farm those runewords, like I said I went for Andariel instead.

I faced them on /players 8, that's the only reason why I wanted to farm the runewords (not worth farming for strength on normal countess anyway).
 
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Mastermind

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Not on Hell

Agreed. I've written extensively on Hell mode as it pertains to Summonmancers. It's not as easy as the Bethes'tard is trying to make out.

Mastermind

Not sure why you are being cocky about beating Act I and Act II bosses on Normal mode, 20 years after the game came out?

Tag me when you get to Hell mode. Didn't you say it'll only take you a day? Also, why not post screencaps of stats and gear when you get to Hell mode -- I'm up for a laugh.

i wanted to but it'll take me a lot more than a day because I have other work to do, i can't play all day.

but sure.
 
Self-Ejected

Lilura

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hybrid zon is the safest and easiest entry-level build

Says a Bethes'tard. 'Zon builds of any kind are gear-dependent from the get-go whereas Skelemancers are not heavily gear-dependent except in Hell. Skelemancers draw almost no aggro.

Slay, summon, amplify, corpse explosion. Nothing safer or easier than that. Also facilitates early power progression and wealth acquisition though Magic Find (gear tailored to MF because doesn't need gear to survive/slay).

and I DIDN'T farm those runewords, like I said I went for Andariel instead..

I guess your English proficiency is lacking as much your knowledge of Diablo 2 is.

And I want to take the bosses on /players 8, that's the only reason why I wanted to farm the runewords.

Everyone knows /players 8 makes the game easier, not harder, because it results in increased power progression and loot drops. It's nothing to be cocky about until you've got a build that can take down /players 8 Hell mode (a Hell-proof build).
 

Mastermind

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
hybrid zon is the safest and easiest entry-level build

Says a Bethes'tard. 'Zon builds of any kind are gear-dependent from the get-go whereas Skelemancers are not heavily gear-dependent except in Hell. Skelemancers draw almost no aggro.

Slay, summon, amplify, corpse explosion. Nothing safer or easier than that. Also facilitates early power progression and wealth acquisition though Magic Find (gear tailored to MF because doesn't need gear to survive/slay).

and I DIDN'T farm those runewords, like I said I went for Andariel instead..

I guess your English proficiency is lacking as much your knowledge of Diablo 2 is.

And I want to take the bosses on /players 8, that's the only reason why I wanted to farm the runewords.

Everyone knows /players 8 makes the game easier, not harder, because it results in increased power progression and loot drops. It's nothing to be cocky about until you've got a build that can take down /players 8 Hell mode (a Hell-proof build).

shut the fuck up you retarded bitch

zon is easy as hell to start, charged strike shows up early and that alone can get you to hell. lightning fury is the best room cleaner in the game and nothing else comes close. easy to max block too since you'll be using the dex & unlike necro you won't be as vulnerable to being sniped by wisps or diablo/mephiso, you don't have to worry about your army being taken down, you have decoys and valkyrie in additon to merc to keep your own mini army around if necessary, slow missiles renders most ranged enemies trivial, etc.

i went to your retarded web site, your "extensive writing" on summon necro is you cheating with some mod which explains why you have no idea how to actually play the game. don't contradict me again.
 
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Mastermind

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
i forgot how tedious this game was, maybe i should have just played a zon after all
 
Self-Ejected

Lilura

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shut the fuck up you retarded bitch

You seem upset.

zon is easy as hell to start, charged strike shows up at level 6 and that alone can get you to hell.

So can plenty of first-tier skills, like Skelemancer summon. But SM isn't heavily gear dependent in Normal and Nightmare modes, whereas Javazons are. And Javs also draw aggro. Thus, they are not as safe and easy to play as skelemancers.

lightning fury is the best room cleaner in the game and nothing else comes close.

That killspeed is heavily item-dependent.

And wrong yet again, scrub. Multi-shot Bowazons clear zones best/fastest. Since Javs with perfect rainbow facets don't break through lightning immunity you have to opt for Conviction through Infinity, thereby incurring aura activation delay. You also lack control of battlefield because your inner circle is often breached, whereas Bowazon arrow-fan ensures your defenses never are.

easy to max block too since you'll be using the dex & unlike necro you won't be as vulnerable to being sniped by wisps or diablo/mephiso,

Like I said, skelemancer almost never draws aggro.


One Valkyrie doesn't make you as safe as 20 skeletons do.

i forgot how tedious this game was, maybe i should have just played a zon after all

I knew you'd give up on the skelemancer. The mere thought of Hell mode broke your will to go on. :smug:
 

luj1

You're all shills
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Javazon isn't safer than Skelemancer lol. He is right about it having the fastest clearing speed though.

Anyway, when you solo Hell on p8 you can consider your build Hell-proof.

Of course some things can still randomly wipe you such as Cursed Burning Souls.

The only truly invincible build is the Abbot (DR based staff charger).

Ubers are tricky for non-Smiters.
 
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Mastermind

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Javazon isn't safer than Skelemancer lol. He is right about it having the fastest clearing speed though.

Anyway, when you solo Hell on p8 you can consider your build Hell-proof.

Of course some things can still randomly wipe you such as Cursed Burning Souls.

The only truly invincible build is the Abbot (DR based staff charger).

Ubers are tricky for non-Smiters.

You guys need to stop adding nonsense conditions. I'm beating hell baal with it then going back to ignoring the game for another 5 years. No, you don't need to beat hell on /players8. :lol:
 
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Reinstalled with 1.12a and cannot get that PlugY shit to work, getting

"Error : Read access missing to patch memory at 6FB40162.
Please install a clean version of Lord of Destruction

You can avoid this error message by setting ActiveCkeckMemory=0 in PlugY.ini"

when trying to start. And setting ActiveCheckMemory=0 doesn't help. Might as well just settle for good old ATMA.
 

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