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Diablo genre is decline

Duralux for Durabux

Guest
Yeah I mean it. Hack&slash games are games with every codes of the decline.
In Hack&Slash and diablo games:
-quests are mostly FedEx with no choice (only Grim Dawn is different)and consist in killing things and recolting an item in a dungeon/grotto/place full of monster. All H&S have WoW quest design. And maybe diablo helped to introduce WoW quest design.
- NPCs are uninteresting and have only 1 dialogue repeating over and over again
- Game starts really slow with the gameplay of literally using one button to win, and after that? Well the one-button gameplay loop becomes the 4-buttons gameplay loop at the end.
- There are multiples builds but most of them consist of repeating 4 buttons to win( only skills change and effects too).
- No C&C (except for grim dawn but bad C&C in GD)
-Multiples items in H&S and in diablo but most of them are useless because only dozens of items (out of hundreds)are usefull ( mostly unique items in adequation to the build and the rest are rare items for lower levels).
They are classified as RPGs and as such I analize them like other RPGs. And What do I find? Well they have everything codexers dislike.
Diablo was decline from the beginning and helped decline as well.
 

Daedalos

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>Talks about deep C&C, story and rpg mechanics in a hack n slash game
>in a hack n slash game
>in a hack n slash game
>in a hack n slash game
>in a hack n slash game
>in a hack n slash game
>in a hack n slash game

ok bro, cool.

click on monster, kill, collect loot, repeat.
kind of the point of a HACK N FUCKING SLASH GAME, wouldnt u agree?

Who cares about the rest, it's just flavor, and diablo did it great with 1+2.

You're a moron. I wish you the best man
 

Duralux for Durabux

Guest
>Talks about deep C&C, story and rpg mechanics in a hack n slash game
>in a hack n slash game
>in a hack n slash game
>in a hack n slash game
>in a hack n slash game
>in a hack n slash game
>in a hack n slash game

ok bro, cool.

click on monster, kill, collect loot, repeat.
kind of the point of a HACK N FUCKING SLASH GAME, wouldnt u agree?

Who cares about the rest, it's just flavor, and diablo did it great with 1+2.

You're a moron. I wish you the best man
They are classified as RPGs, I treat them like other RPGs.
No one obliges Hack&Slash genre to have 0 C&C, WoW quest design, 1 button gameplay loop, etc...
 

Duralux for Durabux

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Why everything(basic criterias for RPGs) is forgiven when it comes to Diablo and Hack&Slash?
 
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RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In
You omitted the biggest problem with the genre. It's the mother of all skinner boxes in video games. Fight the same boss over and over again just for another chance to break the demonic pinata and get another 0.005% chance of getting the item you want. Once you succeed upgrade your gear and start farming the next one.
I also have an issue with itemization, game throws at you tons of multi-colored items of different rarities, most of them are trash, most of them are almost idenitcal to one each other. One shield gives you negligent protection to poison, another is a bit sturdier. Both are trash because they have low rarity. It wouldn't be an issue if they remained in the HnS genre, but unfortunately the cancer infected games like Witcher 3 or Divinity.
 

Daedalos

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Hack N Slash games are basically Dopamine rushes sold.

Who doesn't like dopamine?

Yo brain sure does.
 

Duralux for Durabux

Guest
Hack N Slash games are basically Dopamine rushes sold.

Who doesn't like dopamine?

Yo brain sure does.
I do like dopamine but I like it along with C&C,Gameplay variability, Multiples dialogues and other things proprer to rpgs.
 

thesheeep

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Why everything(basic criterias for RPGs) is forgiven when it comes to Diablo and Hack&Slash?
The only basic criteria for RPG before you start drifting into sub-genres is that it is your character's skill, not your (physical) skill, that determines the outcome of an action (say, an attack) and that you have a strong influence on building/growing your character(s).
I'd say Diablo-likes fulfill that pretty well on average.

The only C&C you need to be an RPG is C&C relating to your character build.
Story C&C is fluff because story itself is fluff.
Same with quests.
Same with gameplay being "varied".
Same with pretty much all the other stuff you mentioned.

You are basically saying that Diablo-likes, since not being crpgs, are bad rpgs. Or that only crpgs are good.
I get that you don't like this particular genre, and you don't have to, but blaming a genre that clearly isn't aimed at you for not being aimed at you is more than just a little being an entitled bitch.

Repeat after me: I am not the center of the universe. I am not the center of the universe. I am not....
 

Shaewaroz

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Saying Diablo is a terrible RPG is like saying Solitaire is a terrible First Person Shooter.
 
Unwanted

Sweeper

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I do like dopamine but I like it along with C&C,Gameplay variability, Multiples dialogues and other things proprer to rpgs.
You need to realize that RPG is a pretty big umbrella term, which includes shit like JRPGs and ARPGs.
You're complaining that ARPGs aren't CRPGs.
Okay... so go play CRPGs...
fuck
You omitted the biggest problem with the genre. It's the mother of all skinner boxes in video games. Fight the same boss over and over again just for another chance to break the demonic pinata and get another 0.005% chance of getting the item you want. Once you succeed upgrade your gear and start farming the next one.
I also have an issue with itemization, game throws at you tons of multi-colored items of different rarities, most of them are trash, most of them are almost idenitcal to one each other. One shield gives you negligent protection to poison, another is a bit sturdier. Both are trash because they have low rarity. It wouldn't be an issue if they remained in the HnS genre, but unfortunately the cancer infected games like Witcher 3 or Divinity.
You don't realize how bad it is until you play Path of Exile.
Those New Zealand Jews have managed to create a game that's the equivalent of crack cocaine, and they designed it so that you basically have to play it as if it were a job and not a fucking vidya.
 

Duralux for Durabux

Guest
Saying Diablo is a terrible RPG is like saying Solitaire is a terrible First Person Shooter.
So you are saying Diablo 1-2 has nothing to do in the RPG genre and therefore the 101 RPGs list is wrong?
The only basic criteria for RPG before you start drifting into sub-genres is that it is your character's skill, not your (physical) skill, that determines the outcome of an action (say, an attack) and that you have a strong influence on building/growing your character(s).
I'd say Diablo-likes fulfill that pretty well on average.

The only C&C you need to be an RPG is C&C relating to your character build.
Story C&C is fluff because story itself is fluff.
Same with quests.
Same with gameplay being "varied".
Same with pretty much all the other stuff you mentioned.

You are basically saying that Diablo-likes, since not being crpgs, are bad rpgs. Or that only crpgs are good.
I get that you don't like this particular genre, and you don't have to, but blaming a genre that clearly isn't aimed at you for not being aimed at you is more than just a little being an entitled bitch.

Repeat after me: I am not the center of the universe. I am not the center of the universe. I am not....
No I'm saying Diablo and diablo clone brought decline to CRPGs and they are bad RPGs.
You need to realize that RPG is a pretty big umbrella term, which includes shit like JRPGs and ARPGs.
You're complaining that ARPGs aren't CRPGs.
Okay... so go play CRPGs...
fuck
I say Hack&Slash games and Diablo 1-2 could have been with many C&C,gameplay variability,etc... and it would work just like CRPGs.
 
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RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In
You don't realize how bad it is until you play Path of Exile.
Those New Zealand Jews have managed to create a game that's the equivalent of crack cocaine, and they designed it so that you basically have to play it as if it were a job and not a fucking vidya.

I actually tried to play it a few times, but dropped it since all the characters were so ugly and uninteresting. Thanks for the warning.
 

Shaewaroz

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Curratum

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I guess having a Stalker avatar pic doesn't automatically save you from being a hopeless retard.
 

Duralux for Durabux

Guest
I guess having a Stalker avatar pic doesn't automatically save you from being a hopeless retard.
I prefer being a hopeless retard in your mind than being an absolute cretin who thinks Witcher 3 and its dlcs are better than anything else. You are such a pathetic casual with absolute no taste, you shouldn't have the right to critisize me.
 

Duralux for Durabux

Guest
No one understands that Diablo with his quest design was one of the precursor of WoW quest design(same company btw), that if Diablo was made with C&C focus, gameplay variability and other things in mind, it would have work well and it would have actually been a good CRPG along with bringing a new genre which would have been a RPG genre and not a dopamine shitfest genre.
 

JarlFrank

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I always wondered why nobody ever combined Diablo combat gameplay with proper RPG quests and shit.

I guess we have Sacred which has an open non-linear world to explore.

And Divine Divinity is often compared to Diablo because it's Diablo's combat and char development + proper quests and shit, so I guess there's one game like that.

But other than that...
 
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RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In
I always wondered why nobody ever combined Diablo combat gameplay with proper RPG quests and shit.
Wasn't there Kult:Heretic Kingdom? For me the Diablo combat is just not really fun to play, at least at a casual level. Spam right click to win, if your build is good you mow throguh everything, if not just run around and chug mana potions. Why not make a proper action game instead? Even with limited budget I don't think going for Diablo combat insteady of trying to copy something like Ys or Zelda would be a good idea.
 

Wunderbar

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I always wondered why nobody ever combined Diablo combat gameplay with proper RPG quests and shit.
adding story and quests into Diablo is pointless since Diablo players are interested in loot and numbers crunching.
adding Diablo elements into story/quest-focused RPG will just piss off normal players who don't like grinding or randomized loot.
 

thesheeep

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No I'm saying Diablo and diablo clone brought decline to CRPGs and they are bad RPGs.
How can a game that's not even in a genre bring decline to the genre?
You are not making any sense.

I always wondered why nobody ever combined Diablo combat gameplay with proper RPG quests and shit.
adding story and quests into Diablo is pointless since Diablo players are interested in loot and numbers crunching.
adding Diablo elements into story/quest-focused RPG will just piss off normal players who don't like grinding or randomized loot.
Hmm... I could see it working on a small scale, some indie project.
But for the "mass" market? Yeah, I don't think these two audiences have a big enough overlap to justify a large investment.
 

TT1

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Diablo and hack slash are pure incline.

I'm so tired these days... I think I've never work so much in my life. Most of my days, when I finish my shift I am just exhausted. When I play diablo I dont need to think or to read or anything, its just click and kill. Its the only kinda genre I can play and feel somehow happy. Its a blessing we have games like this.
 
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Before these types of games were established with their own tropes and norms - i.e. before they turned into mindless gear mills (Diablo 2), there was a lot of potential.

Diablo 1 still stands as one of the best and most atmospheric games of all time, and straddles the line really well between roguelike improvisation (tome drops, etc) and mindless grinding. There is minimal storytelling but your imagination fills in the blanks, there is not a lot of item variety but there's enough, and some items are very powerful.

I would have preferred if the genre as a whole had taken a different turn before being codified into what it is now - namely, a theme park of spergy explosions and AWESOME BUTTANZ where 99% of drops are shit and players are kept hooked via a mindless endgame grind that varies only slightly across different titles.

Just think of how great it would be if we could get a high-value production Diablo-style game with the mechanical richness and variety of, say, Dungeon Crawl. In my old age, I can't stomach diablo clickers anymore, but I play DCSS all the time.

The prefix-suffix item lottery and thousand-hour grinds are boring to me, I just fall asleep playing these games now - quite literally.
 

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