Diablo IV

[Cryomancer]

With that said, I do think GD upon my second honest try with it is probably my preferred Diablo-like of the current era by far. The music is really nice, the gameplay systems are fine, it has some pretty good atmosphere in certain places and the environment can feel quite forlorn and desolate which I like in my dark fantasy games. I'm glad I revisited it, it's a very solid game even if it doesn't exactly try to set the world on fire with something innovative.

I still prefer PoE.

IMO : PoE > GD > D3.

Exactly because D3 is the most contaminated by mmo BS, Grim Dawn the second most contained

Yeah, no idea why some Diablo-likes have gone down this WoW cooldown route

SP games are having this mmo BS too.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

The one thing that really gets me HEATED when it comes to SP-MMO shit is having frequent balance patches. Yeah, balance patches for an SP game. And it's not balance patches that makes things viable or fixes how some skills work, it's fixes that buff and nerf like you'd expect in an MMO game. I can understand fixing stuff that was way stronger than intended that it breaks the game, but having these MMO patch notes for a game that you're playing offline about things being better and worse one month then the next month something else moves to the forefront and so on is so annoying.

GD is also guilty of this practice from what I can see. If you're going to play MMO developer, can you at least provide some way of playing the game in a previous state? I consider that shit to be fake on-going support. It's done to make it seem like you're still there paying attention to the game but you're just changing numbers after you woke up one night at 4 AM. Fuck that.

 

[Cryomancer]

Only i found some Jay Wilson's meme funny as hell?

Nobody elses managed to decline a game franchise more than this guy. Even Tod Haward din't dumbed down so much in a single opportunity. He needed many interactions to do that.

 

[Storyfag]

Nobody elses managed to decline a game franchise more than this guy. Even Tod Haward din't dumbed down so much in a single opportunity. He needed many interactions to do that.

Did you ever hear the legend of Electronig Arts the Greedy? It killed Command and Conquer in its sleep.

 

[abija]

Nobody elses managed to decline a game franchise more than this guy. Even Tod Haward din't dumbed down so much in a single opportunity. He needed many interactions to do that.

If you spend that much time hating, maybe you should focus on the guys above him, like Rob Pardo. Atm you are the steoretypical NPC hater.

Or better yet spend sime time on your school duties and learn some math.

 

[Cryomancer]

If you spend that much time hating, maybe you should focus on the guys above him, like Rob Pardo. Atm you are the steoretypical NPC hater.

According to wikipedia, Rob Pardo also was a designer on D2 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Pardo ) and he was a lead designer on The Burning Crusade, one of the most successful WoW expansion. I don't like wow, but TBC was one of the most popular WoW expansions. Jay Wilson i other hands...

Did you ever hear the legend of Electronig Arts the Greedy? It killed Command and Conquer in its sleep.

Yes, you are right.

 

[Cryomancer]

Amazing video



To me, Diablo 3 is a cooldown generator with wow graphics. Nailed it.

 

[luj1]

Diablo 4 Devs "agree," will "add more depth and complexity;"

Doesn't mean shit though, because you'll still have two attributes which is abysmal decline lol

They're even talking about having 'infinite levels'

 

[Cryomancer]

Doesn't mean shit though, because you'll still have two attributes which is abysmal decline lol

They're even talking about having 'infinite levels'

Diablo never had good attributes(
D1 - The less awful attribute system of the franchise
D2 - Min STR to war gear + rest into VIT except if you wanna max block or is a energy shield sorc. Energy doesn't buff magic damage of some spells like MAg on first game and gear/charms can give ludicrous buff to attributes.
D3 - MAinstat, every lv 70 necro has the same IQ without gear and his IQ is 100% determined by the boots that he is wearing
D4 - The DEVS says that everything is passive to change. The Blizzcon D4 is a decline. The final Diablo, who knows?

But D2 modders manages to implement better attributes than Blizzard. Look to Path of Diablo. Invest into Energy worth for my bone necro... because buffs not only the damage but also the number of projectiles

My opinion? The final D4 will be a incline in relation to D3 and a decline in relation to D2.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

I don't see D4 ending up genuinely good, but it'll have a darker tone/palette so it'll fool some people but still remain with that nu-Blizzard/WoW stench.

I really don't think they have the talent to deliver a truly great game. What was the last Blizzard product to come out and get a ton of praise? Maybe WotLK from over ten years ago? It should speak volumes that Blizzard's biggest success right now is WoW Classic which is simply an emulation of a time when Blizzard did have some actual talent working for them and has nothing to do with their current crop.

The constant consulting with the community is also worrying. It's nice to take criticism, work on improving the experience, and doing what makes sense but you also need to have an actual vision for it instead of putting too many chefs in the kitchen. This has the risk of creating an ugly, disjointed jigsaw mess that doesn't fit together too well because you took into consideration too much from too many.

And again it comes down to the talent involved. Blizzard in the past ten years have released WoW expansions that are near globally agreed to be shittier than the previous, the most disappointing sequel to one of the most beloved PC franchises, a MOBA that nobody wanted, a card game that appeals to people that eat glue, and an FPS that popularized loot boxes.

If D4 doesn't suck donkey dick and is actually a good, solid, worthy entry into the Diablo franchise then I will swallow a glass of nails. Quote me on that.

 

[Swigen]

Diablo 4 is gonna be great! Picture this: you get back home after a hard days work, pop some ice cubes outta the tray, pour yourself some quality rum on the rocks. You’re tying on a nice buzz, feeling pretty good, exploring the north tunnels, not the bullshit caves past the barracks this time but the real north tunnels where Jonas lives. You put some more points into Dex also so you can kill the rathounds with yore pistol before they even get to you, you find Jonas’ watch on a dead one and you make your way through said tunnels powering up each outpost. It’s working now that you know to put the flux controller into the main generator. Suddenly you come across a squatter living in one of the outposts. He’s got two pet rathounds and he’s not gonna leave. There’s only one thing to do and that’s threaten him, run away, and blow his ass up with the exploding barrel a little ways from his pad. Now yore drunk as fuck. Time to look at PAWG porn and ponder a more efficient build.

Yeah. This gaem is gonna be great!

 

[Beastro]

I'd prefer mechanics like that were systemic. Although obviously it would mean re-working whole synergy thing again.

Synergies definitely lead to streamlined builds; with worst example being say javazon 20202020202020 into lightning skills then spam Fury.
I think a linking system where you could link 1-2 skills of your choice to another skill of your choice and that would produce different effects would have worked. Since all skills are separated due to class system (sometimes class systems have advantages, surprise) it would be easier to make and balance than in POE. Like link poison dagger to your skeletons, get more AR and poison damage in skeletons, that sort of thing.

Btw while killing meph I was listening to Diablo lore utub videos and

I admit Diablo lore is probably some of the most anime and unnecessary and crude things I have seen. The whole 2 gods fight make angels and demons, the duper lore dump about what was before Diablo 1, lilith and other shit, the awkward anime explanation of how angels rreproduce, it is all so

unnecessary

for games where lore is scarce and self contained and things like haven and hell are supposed to be at least a bit mysterious mebbe, it suffers from what I would call fake history order desire syndrome, where you explain things that in real world are just a string of chance and events and C&C; with shit like "well here's how nephelim were born, and then 1 nephelim made barbarians, and another made wizards, and" omg.
I do not recommend learning this "lore".

the desire of DMs to try and explain the WHOLE WORLD ORDER is strong in that one. as well as possible desire to sell some books and merch.
diablo 1/dark souls way of telling lore in ARPGs is just fine; I don't need to know what every angel thinks or uses as a weapon or whatever.

I ran into this going from Super Metroid to Metroid Fusion replaying them recently.

Gameplay-wise Fusion is a minor evolution on SM and that's all that's needed because of how perfect everything is designed.... but then you have all this unnecessary exposition shoved in that does nothing but drag the game down as some background details and a past relationship are shoved on the player in marked contrast to the complete lack of exposition in SM after the effective introduction.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

I ran into this going from Super Metroid to Metroid Fusion replaying them recently.

HEY

TELL THIS JABRONI HE OWES ME MONEY

https://metroid.fandom.com/wiki/Yakuza

 

[Sentinel]

https://us.diablo3.com/en/blog/23230076?linkId=100000009338616

System Design in Diablo IV (Part II)
David Kim 12/3/2019

In Part I, we addressed many of the open questions from the community about the Diablo IV game designs we revealed at BlizzCon. I recommend checking that out if you haven’t already.

Itemization is a huge core part of any Action RPG. We’re focusing specifically on itemization in this blog because it’s a complex and nuanced topic. Let’s start with two key principles that guide us as the Diablo IV development team.

First, we agree that adding depth and customization to your character through itemization is incredibly valuable and important to the game. This has been the most-discussed topic since we revealed Diablo IV. To be clear—we believe Diablo IV itemization should be deep and rewarding and that’s one of our highest priorities. Another important philosophy across the whole game for our team is the concept “Easy to learn, difficult to master.” This core philosophy helped many of us become the hardcore gamers we are today, and one we want to embrace throughout the Diablo IV development process.

Second, we agree with the feedback that Diablo IV shouldn’t just mimic the itemization in our previous Diablo games. Our plan is to take the best parts of previous games and improve upon them while introducing new elements to make Diablo IV unique. We don’t want to create an exact copy of Diablo II or Diablo III. It’s worth calling out that, on this subject, there was a lot of mixed feedback and differing opinions, and we acknowledge that means there’s no single approach that everyone in the community will agree on.

That said, thanks to your feedback, we have some potential changes we’re actively discussing internally regarding itemization that we’d like to share with you today. Again, we feel it’s important to stress that this is very early design, and we’re sharing this with the community far sooner than we ever have before. There will be problems with these ideas we’ll have to iterate through, and what’s presented below is almost certainly not final. The reason we’re sharing this so early is because we want to involve the community in our process and learn as much as we can from your feedback, as soon as possible.

Let’s get to it!

Affixes in Diablo IV

We went through so much great community discussion, including a fair amount of conflicting feedback, and we’ve had dozens of hours of discussion on this topic. We were left with two major takeaways. First, item affixes should be a meaningful part of character power. Second, they should create interesting choices when deciding which items to equip. Our previous focus was on making each affix geared toward specific builds, so that the “perfect item” would vary depending on the build you were pursuing. We still like this overall direction, but we understand it can also feel like your choices are limited because you end up chasing a list of “best-in-slot” items.

Here are the changes we’re considering:

• We’re increasing the total number of affixes on items, including Magic (Blue), Rare (Yellow), and Legendary (Orange). This should raise the overall importance of non-Legendary affixes on your character’s overall level of power.
• We are also introducing three new stats:
  • Angelic Power, which increases the duration of all beneficial effects (like self-buffs or healing)
  • Demonic Power, which increases the duration of all negative effects (like debuffs or damage over time)
  • Ancestral Power, which increases the chance of on-hit effects (aka increased proc chance)

These new stats can appear as affixes, such as +15 Angelic Power. In addition to providing the above-stated benefit, we want these new stats to also act as pre-requisites for empowering certain other affixes. If you don’t have enough of a specific power, you can still equip the item, but you may not benefit from an affix linked to that power.

Here are a couple of work-in-progress examples to better illustrate what these affixes do (again, none of this is final and could change considerably):





Each of the three Powers will have a list of affixes that are attuned to it, so depending on which stats you care about, you might want to focus on Angelic, Demonic, or Ancestral Power. In the examples above, you would need 50 Demonic Power to get an additional rank in the Devastation skill, 55 Demonic Power for 25% Fire Resistance, or 60 Demonic power for an additional 2 ranks in the Char to Ash skill. If you wanted to build around Crushing Blow, you’d need to stack at least 55 Ancestral Power instead, while 40 Angelic Power would be required to gain 25% Cold Resistance.

We think these changes will address those two main takeaways pretty well. Legendary powers should no longer completely dwarf the strength of your affixes, and the affixes themselves provide more interesting choices because their strength depends on how much of the relevant Powers you’ve accumulated on the rest of your gear. You might find an amulet with the perfect stats for your build, but some of its Affixes may require Demonic Power when you’ve previously focused on Ancestral. Maybe your current amulet is the primary source of your Ancestral Power, so equipping a new amulet would mean potentially making sacrifices elsewhere.

With this system, it will be easy to identify items with good stats, but it will take some thought and planning to decide whether the item is good for your build. The best items for your character will really depend on what you currently have and how you’ve built that character, making it more difficult to just look up the right answer online.

At the same time, we think this system keeps items approachable, even if you make suboptimal itemization decisions. You may be weaker, but doing so won’t completely break your character. We can also introduce this mechanic gradually and naturally as you level, rather than making it a requirement to understand at the beginning.

Attack/Defense Changes

Based on your feedback, we’ve changed Attack to only be found on weapons, Defense to being only on armor, and we’ve removed both Attack and Defense from jewelry entirely. The goal here is to better embrace the fantasy of each type of item.

We like the Attack and Defense stats as a way to convey power progression on items. A core part of any ARPG is the quest for more power. Just as we have skill ranks, talent trees, character levels, and so forth, Attack and Defense allows us to reflect your power growth in items as well.

To be clear, Attack/Defense is not the end of the story of an item’s power, but it does fulfill the “easy to learn, difficult to master” design philosophy by giving players a broad sense of whether the item is an upgrade. Players who are optimizing their character will still need to take the additional affixes on an item into account, as their benefit to your build can outweigh the raw Attack or Defense of an item. Solely picking your items based on Attack and Defense will almost never be the optimal way to play, but it does provide a good starting point for newer players.

It’s important to reiterate here that items are just one part of a character’s overall power. Our goal is to spread out power across different sources, including skill ranks, your character’s level, talent trees, items, and the endgame character progression system (which, like everything else, is still in development).

Ancient Legendary Replacement

In our last post, we mentioned that we were looking at some potential changes to Ancient items based on your feedback. We are going to remove Ancient Legendaries from the game in their current form entirely.

Our newest proposal hits a couple different feedback points: addressing the usefulness of Rare (Yellow) items as well as increasing the depth and complexity of player gear choices in the endgame.

We will be introducing a new type of consumable item (which we haven’t yet named). This item would be earned by killing monsters, just like other items. It would have one random Legendary affix on it, drops only in the late endgame, and can be used to apply that affix to any non-Legendary item.

This means a few things:

• We create an “elective mode for items” that is experienced after players have had time to experience Rare and Legendary items normally, as well as familiarized themselves with a variety of affixes
• This adds a way to introduce new methods of play without adding even more power to endgame items
• Rare items with the best affixes on them are always useful and retain value

More Feedback

We want to remind you one last time for good measure that none of this is final—we haven’t even tried most of this in a working build yet! We’d love to get some constructive feedback on these approaches, as well as the general direction we’re headed for itemization. We’ve never shared this level of detail this early before, but we look forward to reading what you have to say.

Thanks,

David Kim
Lead Systems Designer

 

[abija]

Why do these read like a mod/expansion to D3 changes?

 

[Shadenuat]

Gamism to hide overall casualisation of system where stats are meh. Really this angelic demonic stuff looks like some slapped on crude way to replace prerequisites for stats/items.

But at least only weapons give attack.

I think it would still be a shitty system. "Quest for power" is bad position to design world of horror. "we use attack and defence cause arpgs are quest for power" is basically admitting "we want these cause people like numbers growing".
And it's not like it's completely wrong for people to like bigger numbers in their arpg; but it's just it is the basics of the game, not the end and all in itself, and it is a lot more interesting when you exchange numbers than just grow them as well and have things interacting with each other - thins like block chance, and block speed in frames, where some players just drop shields because they can lock them in stunblock, or exchanging some resists for others or mf or cast rate etc.

I do find it ironic that even in a game like this though, they still backtrack to old games and realism (no attack on boots and jewelry). You'd think this shit doesn't matter, just like Might > all damage in PoE, yet seems like player responses were so massively negative to this that they had to go back to realism as it breaks players immersion too much. In an ARPG. Yeah, as you see, clicking loot and growing numbers is not enough to hold a DIABLO game together. Players want things to make fucking sense.

Yet designers seem to be more preoccupied with their own ideas of whats balanced or easy to learn or works best without any interest in what actually makes players invested and immersed in the game. U d think if u r AWESOME designer you can make a system where weapons give attack, or might gives melee damage, and still keep it both reasonably easy to grasp AND balanced; but no, they just forcibly vomit this designs onto the world and then wonder why do people prefer more basic and reasonable thing.

 

[Cryomancer]

As for itemization and stats on the article, again as expected. Better than D3, worse than D2/D1... Anyone really was expecting a 90s/earlier 00s style of Diablo? Lets be real, any company bigger than OwlCat games or Piranha Bytes will decline his games. Mainly if the company is in Americas. The unique reason that D4 will be better than D3 is that is impossible to dumb down more D3.

 

[Nathir]

Why do these read like a mod/expansion to D3 changes?

Because the developers probably only played D3 from the series.

 

[Grotesque]

Who to believe...
a guy on utube with around 17 000 hours of Diablo 2 played or?

 

[Shadenuat]

hell rakanishu.

i already used 2 socket quests

mission: get to hell ch 5 to socket shako for hork barb

or maybe stop here. i used a ssf 2 axe wielding barb to hork a shako. any other achievement by any class pales in comparison.

i also got titans from nm andy and herald of zakarum from eldritch and thundergod from random scrub stupid barb

yet i cannot for fuck find a decent weapon for myself so i use upgradedgarbag like this

which at least provides me with over 9000 attack rating.

update

the ride never ends

this is at same time luckiest and unluckiest barb ever.

I ALSO FOUND GULL
GAME BROKEN I GIVE UP I AM NOT MF SORC WTF

 

[Cryomancer]

Some armor design for D4

Sorc
https://twitter.com/Diablo/status/1197177317761658881/photo/3

Druid
https://twitter.com/Diablo/status/1197595549509332994/photo/3

Barb
https://twitter.com/Diablo/status/1196505619139874816/photo/3

IMO is better htan D3, but still too much ""flamboistic""...

Among the action RPG's, Gothic and Dark Souls has the best armor design.

 

[Shadenuat]

it's not "flamboistic" just nonsensical, random shapeless stuff drawn over character bodies.

 

[luj1]

Looks mundane tbh

 

[Cryomancer]

it's not "flamboistic" just nonsensical, random shapeless stuff drawn over character bodies.

Yep. But why Blizzard South loves this carnival-like "armors' so much???

Gothic 1 has IMO the best armor of 00s games.

 

[Jedi Exile]

Some armor design for D4

Sorc
https://twitter.com/Diablo/status/1197177317761658881/photo/3

Druid
https://twitter.com/Diablo/status/1197595549509332994/photo/3

Barb
https://twitter.com/Diablo/status/1196505619139874816/photo/3

IMO is better htan D3, but still too much ""flamboistic""...

Among the action RPG's, Gothic and Dark Souls has the best armor design.

Druid looks cool.