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Baldur's Gate Did Baldur's Gate 2 have "crafting"?

NJClaw

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JarlFrank

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Exactly what about OG BG2 would be frowned upon?

Romances and crafting, to name a couple.

BG2 had crafting?
You could craft the Flail of Ages.
Also you could craft different artefact weapons and armours from dragon scales.

That's not what "crafting" usually refers to, though.

You're picking up broken pieces of unique weapons and then reassemble them. There's the flail of ages, there's the dragon scale armors crafted from the scales of the few dragons that exist in the game, there's some other broken weapons that can be reassembled.

But there's no "crafting" as a system where you collect generic materials in order to forge generic equipment out of them.
Crafting systems mean you collect 100 pieces of iron ore so you can make a generic iron sword +1 or something.

BG2 does not have that.
 

Atlantico

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That's not what "crafting" usually refers to, though.

You're picking up broken pieces of unique weapons and then reassemble them. There's the flail of ages, there's the dragon scale armors crafted from the scales of the few dragons that exist in the game, there's some other broken weapons that can be reassembled.

But there's no "crafting" as a system where you collect generic materials in order to forge generic equipment out of them.
Crafting systems mean you collect 100 pieces of iron ore so you can make a generic iron sword +1 or something.

BG2 does not have that.

That's the most autistic interpretation of "crafting" I've read.

This is crafting, not ifs or buts about it:

CROMWELL'S SMITHY

Location: At 19 in the Docks District in Athkatla.

Cromwell can forge a number of very powerful items for you. All you need to do is bring him the necessary components – and a large sum of gold!

Ankheg Plate Mail

Components:

Properties:

  • Armor Class: 1.
  • Weight: 25.
  • Requires: 8 Strength.
  • Not usable by: Bards, Druids, Mages, and Thieves.
Crom Faeyr

Components:

Properties:

  • Proficiency Type: War Hammer.
  • Grants 25 Strength.
  • Kills Stone Golems, Clay Golems, Ettins, and Trolls.
  • THAC0: +5.
  • Damage: 2D4 + 3.
  • Weight: 4.
  • Speed Factor: 1.
  • Not usable by: Druids, Mages, and Thieves.
Halberd +4: Wave

Components:

Properties:

  • Proficiency Type: Halberd.
  • 15% chance of draining victim of water (+15 damage).
  • Slays Fire Elementals, Efreeti, Salamanders (no save).
  • THAC0: +4.
  • Damage: 1D10 + 4.
  • Weight: 12.
  • Speed Factor: 5.
  • Requires: 13 Strength.
  • Not Usable By Monks, Druids, Clerics, Mages, and Thieves.
Mace of Disruption +2

Components:

Properties:

  • Wearer is immune to Level Drain.
  • Versus Undead: 2-12 + 4 damage, plus they must make a saving throw vs. Death (-4 penalty) or be utterly destroyed.
  • THAC0: +2.
  • Damage: 1D6 + 3.
  • Weight: 8.
  • Speed Factor: 6.
  • Requires: 10 Strength.
  • No usable by: Druids, Mages, and Thieves.
Red Dragon Armor

Components:

Properties:

  • +50% resistance to Fire.
  • Armor Class: -1.
  • Weight: 30.
  • Requires: 8 Strength.
  • Not usable by: Bards, Mages, and Thieves.
Shadow Dragon Armor

Components:

Properties:

  • +50% resistance to Acid.
  • Armor Class: 1.
  • Weight: 10.
  • Requires: 6 Strength.
  • Not usable by: Mages.
Short Bow of Gesen

Components:

Properties:

  • Proficiency Type: Short Bow.
  • THAC0: +4.
  • Damage: 2 Piercing, 1-8 Electrical.
  • Grants user 20% resistance to Electricity.
  • Weight: 2.
  • Speed Factor: 4.
  • Not usable by Druids, Clerics, and Mages.
Silver Sword

Components:

Properties:

  • Proficiency: Two-handed Sword.
  • 25% chance each hit that target must make a saving throw vs. death (-2 penalty).
  • THAC0: +3.
  • Damage: 1D10 + 3.
  • Weight: 15.
  • Speed Factor: 10.
  • Requires: 14 Strength.
  • Not usable by: Druids, Clerics, Mages, and Thieves.
The Equalizer

Components:

Properties:

  • Proficiency Type: Long Sword.
  • Always considered +3 when determining what it can hit.
  • THAC0 and Damage:
    • Vs. True Neutral: +0 to hit, +0 damage.
    • Vs. Lawful Neutral and Chaotic Neutral: +1 to hit, +2 damage.
    • Vs. Neutral Good and Neutral Evil: +2 to hit, +4 damage.
    • Vs. all other alignments: +3 to hit, +6 damage.
  • Equipped Abilities: Immune to Charm and Confusion.
  • Weight: 3.
  • Speed Factor: 3.
  • Requires: 6 Strength.
  • Not usable by Druids, Clerics, and Mages.
 

Parabalus

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Lumping Cromwell's smithy, with its unique, hand-placed items, together with e.g. Skyrim's crafting is plain retarded.
 

Atlantico

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Lumping Cromwell's smithy, with its unique, hand-placed items, together with e.g. Skyrim's crafting is plain retarded.

Defining crafting by using Skyrim as a gold standard is pure retardĂ­simo.

As if crafting started in Skyrim or is defined by fucking Skyrim. Here's a hint: it didn't and it doesn't.

When BG2 was released, that was crafting. Gather ingredients, use a recipe, build an item.

i.e. Crafting.
 

JarlFrank

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That's not what "crafting" usually refers to, though.

You're picking up broken pieces of unique weapons and then reassemble them. There's the flail of ages, there's the dragon scale armors crafted from the scales of the few dragons that exist in the game, there's some other broken weapons that can be reassembled.

But there's no "crafting" as a system where you collect generic materials in order to forge generic equipment out of them.
Crafting systems mean you collect 100 pieces of iron ore so you can make a generic iron sword +1 or something.

BG2 does not have that.

That's the most autistic interpretation of "crafting" I've read.

This is crafting, not ifs or buts about it:

CROMWELL'S SMITHY

Location: At 19 in the Docks District in Athkatla.

Cromwell can forge a number of very powerful items for you. All you need to do is bring him the necessary components – and a large sum of gold!

Ankheg Plate Mail

Components:

Properties:

  • Armor Class: 1.
  • Weight: 25.
  • Requires: 8 Strength.
  • Not usable by: Bards, Druids, Mages, and Thieves.
Crom Faeyr

Components:

Properties:

  • Proficiency Type: War Hammer.
  • Grants 25 Strength.
  • Kills Stone Golems, Clay Golems, Ettins, and Trolls.
  • THAC0: +5.
  • Damage: 2D4 + 3.
  • Weight: 4.
  • Speed Factor: 1.
  • Not usable by: Druids, Mages, and Thieves.
Halberd +4: Wave

Components:

Properties:

  • Proficiency Type: Halberd.
  • 15% chance of draining victim of water (+15 damage).
  • Slays Fire Elementals, Efreeti, Salamanders (no save).
  • THAC0: +4.
  • Damage: 1D10 + 4.
  • Weight: 12.
  • Speed Factor: 5.
  • Requires: 13 Strength.
  • Not Usable By Monks, Druids, Clerics, Mages, and Thieves.
Mace of Disruption +2

Components:

Properties:

  • Wearer is immune to Level Drain.
  • Versus Undead: 2-12 + 4 damage, plus they must make a saving throw vs. Death (-4 penalty) or be utterly destroyed.
  • THAC0: +2.
  • Damage: 1D6 + 3.
  • Weight: 8.
  • Speed Factor: 6.
  • Requires: 10 Strength.
  • No usable by: Druids, Mages, and Thieves.
Red Dragon Armor

Components:

Properties:

  • +50% resistance to Fire.
  • Armor Class: -1.
  • Weight: 30.
  • Requires: 8 Strength.
  • Not usable by: Bards, Mages, and Thieves.
Shadow Dragon Armor

Components:

Properties:

  • +50% resistance to Acid.
  • Armor Class: 1.
  • Weight: 10.
  • Requires: 6 Strength.
  • Not usable by: Mages.
Short Bow of Gesen

Components:

Properties:

  • Proficiency Type: Short Bow.
  • THAC0: +4.
  • Damage: 2 Piercing, 1-8 Electrical.
  • Grants user 20% resistance to Electricity.
  • Weight: 2.
  • Speed Factor: 4.
  • Not usable by Druids, Clerics, and Mages.
Silver Sword

Components:

Properties:

  • Proficiency: Two-handed Sword.
  • 25% chance each hit that target must make a saving throw vs. death (-2 penalty).
  • THAC0: +3.
  • Damage: 1D10 + 3.
  • Weight: 15.
  • Speed Factor: 10.
  • Requires: 14 Strength.
  • Not usable by: Druids, Clerics, Mages, and Thieves.
The Equalizer

Components:

Properties:

  • Proficiency Type: Long Sword.
  • Always considered +3 when determining what it can hit.
  • THAC0 and Damage:
    • Vs. True Neutral: +0 to hit, +0 damage.
    • Vs. Lawful Neutral and Chaotic Neutral: +1 to hit, +2 damage.
    • Vs. Neutral Good and Neutral Evil: +2 to hit, +4 damage.
    • Vs. all other alignments: +3 to hit, +6 damage.
  • Equipped Abilities: Immune to Charm and Confusion.
  • Weight: 3.
  • Speed Factor: 3.
  • Requires: 6 Strength.
  • Not usable by Druids, Clerics, and Mages.

All of these are unique items either assembled from broken parts, or upgraded with very specific unique ingredients.

You can't farm 100 dragons to get enough dragon scales to equip your entire party in dragon scale armor.
The only item here that's even remotely similar to modern crafting systems is the ankheg shell armor. But even then, compared to modern crafting systems which usually require a dozen pieces of the ingredient to forge an armor from it, here it's... one shell = one armor.
Let's look at all the others:

Crom Faeyr: unique hammer + two rare strength increasing items + unique scroll that exists exactly once in the game = even better unique hammer.
Wave halberd: you find the shaft of the halberd and the blade of the halberd and you pay a blacksmith to put them back together. Unique weapon, exists exactly once in the game.
Mace of Disruption +2: unique mace that exists exactly once in the game + an ingredient that exists exactly once in the game
Red Dragon Armor: forged from red dragon scales; there is exactly one red dragon in the entire game
Shadow Dragon Armor: same as above, there is exactly one shadow dragon in the entire game
Short Bow of Gesen: like the Wave halberd, it's made from two separated pieces of a unique ancient artifact and you just pay a blacksmith to repair the thing
Silver Sword: like the Wave halberd and Bow of Gesen, it's made from two unique pieces that exist exactly once in the game; the blade is a quest reward and the hilt is acquired from a dude who demands the blade from you, if you decide not to hand it over and kill him
The Equalizer: same fucking case as all the above

Yes, it's technically crafting because it involves the act of taking separate pieces of a thing and forging them into a whole thing. That's what crafting is linguistically defined as.
But when we talk about game features, "crafting" is the thing you do in Minecraft or in Skyrim, or in any other game with systems inspired by those. When a game advertises a crafting system as part of its features, it usually means (and players who like that kind of stuff expect):
- grinding/farming for generic resources in order to turn these into useable items
- a broad availability of this generic resource: it's a crafting system if you can farm dragon scales and create full armor suits for your entire party out of it, but if there's only one dragon in the game and his scales are good for only one armor, fans of crafting systems will be hugely disappointed
- the system allows for the production of generic standard-tier equipment through the combination of aforementioned generic resources; collecting 50 mithril to create an awesome mithril broadsword is crafting, but finding the broken hilt and blade of a unique named mithril sword named The Headtaker and bringing them to a smith to fix them back together isn't crafting
 
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Gather ingredients, use a recipe, build an item.

Those aren't ingredients, they are broken artifact pieces. There is a big difference. Ingredient can be used in different recipes and has multiple copies in a game, artifact piece can only be used in a single recipe and there is only one copy of it in the entire game.
 

Parabalus

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Gather ingredients, use a recipe, build an item.

Those aren't ingredients, they are broken artifact pieces. There is a big difference. Ingredient can be used in different recipes and has multiple copies in a game, artifact piece can only be used in a single recipe and there is only one copy of it in the entire game.

Also conveniently ignores that Skyrim etc. have crafting systems, completely ignores the latter part.

AoD for instance has both a crafting system and a few artifacts you craft, by piecing them together in dialogue through skill checks. Completely different.
 

jackofshadows

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I wonder how do you autists call Arcanum's system where you can craft both unique items (basically artefacts) and generic items like healing salves. It's called crafting. And BG2 also featured crafting. Didn't know that anyone was bothered by it thou, I think it was a cool addition.
 

Parabalus

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I wonder how do you autists call Arcanum's system where you can craft both unique items (basically artefacts) and generic items like healing salves. It's called crafting. And BG2 also featured crafting. Didn't know that anyone was bothered by it thou, I think it was a cool addition.

A great system.

UR also gets praise for its crafting, and it's as autistic as it gets.
 
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I wonder how do you autists call Arcanum's system where you can craft both unique items (basically artefacts) and generic items like healing salves. It's called crafting. And BG2 also featured crafting. Didn't know that anyone was bothered by it thou, I think it was a cool addition.

MMC

Mixed Martial Crafting
 

Atlantico

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Yes, it's technically crafting because it involves the act of taking separate pieces of a thing and forging them into a whole thing.

That's all you needed to say.

Your autistic drivel is just bizarre btw.

You have some dumbass idea about what defines "crafting" which is about as stupid as how to define an "RPG".

The game in question is 21 years old and it doesn't have the same "crafting" as modern titles? No shit.

What is your general problem dude?

Also conveniently ignores that Skyrim etc. have crafting systems, completely ignores the latter part.

Did I write crafting *systems*?

No I didn't.
 

Atlantico

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Those aren't ingredients, they are broken artifact pieces. There is a big difference. Ingredient can be used in different recipes and has multiple copies in a game, artifact piece can only be used in a single recipe and there is only one copy of it in the entire game.

Gold pieces, illithium, dragon scales, etc.

You are so wrong. It does contain generic items, some items are only made from money and dragon scales.

Nobody familiar with gaming systems and tropes would say BG2 has "crafting".

Nobody familiar with gaming systems and tropes would say BG2 has "romance". Where are the sex scenes?
 

NJClaw

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I think you guys are just arguing semantics here and don't even necessarily disagree on the topic.

Yes, Baldur's Gate 2 has "crafting" in the general sense that you have the option to craft certain items. However, the kind of crafting you have in BG2 is so different from the Standardized Crafting System™ that every videogame with (or without) RPG elements implements today that it almost feels strange to put them in the same category. Not because they aren't "crafting", but because the criticism that's usually valid for the Standardized Crafting System™ can't really be applied to what BG2 had.
 

Atlantico

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Yes, Baldur's Gate 2 has "crafting" in the general sense that you have the option to craft certain items. However, the kind of crafting you have in BG2 is so different from the Standardized Crafting System™ that every videogame with (or without) RPG elements implements today that it almost feels strange to put them in the same category. Not because they aren't "crafting", but because the criticism that's usually valid for the Standardized Crafting System™ can't really be applied to what BG2 had.

It's the beginning of the decline, not that it was equal to and exactly the same as Skyrim.

Should have been an uncontroversial observation.
 
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You are so wrong. It does contain generic items, some items are only made from money and dragon scales.

In BG2 dragon scales aren't generic items, it isn't Skyrim. There are only 3 dragons in the game, each with different model. Dragon are not generic mobs, but one of the most powerful bosses in the game.
 
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I would think the biggest sin of BG2 would be how abysmally linear the game becomes as soon as you set sail for Spellhold but crafting it is I suppose.
 

fork

Guest
In BG2 dragon scales aren't generic items, it isn't Skyrim.

Again, 100% autism. That there are only 3 dragons in the game doesn't make their scales "broken artifact pieces". They're literally crafting material.

You fucking mongoloid. One is fun, the other is not. That's enough of a distinction for me to call the latter crafting, but not the former. Especially since this distinction holds true for every example I can think of.
 

Atlantico

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I would think the biggest sin of BG2 would be how abysmally linear the game becomes as soon as you set sail for Spellhold but crafting it is I suppose.

Crafting and romance were just two examples, in no particular order.

Some people simply got triggered, that their holy cow was being accused of having such decline and degeneracy as crafting.

Everything about BG2 was a decline and the game itself a massive disappointment, after the (comparative) masterpiece that was BG1.

The linearity was also terrible, yes and it started right in Chateau Irenicus.
 

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