Baldur's Gate Did Baldur's Gate 2 have "crafting"?

[rusty_shackleford]

collecting components and having a skilled craftsman forge an item from them sure sounds like crafting to me

 

[Nortar]

The irony.

The irony is that what passes for crafting in modern games is not about crafting, but about collecting.
When you have a recipe and collected enough ingredients, you just click "craft" and it's done.

And without an actual crafting process, without a bit of effort for success, and without a chance for failure,
there is no sense of achievement, no pride in a job well done. And this is especially glaring in all the survival shit and most MMOs.

The best crafting in a game I've ever seen was done in Everquest 2 back in the day, I have no idea if it's different now.
It was not just engaging and skill dependant, but also somewhat dangerous. Hilariously, the forgeat one point used to be among the top 10 causes of character's deaths, as failure to operate it properly caused some serious damage.
That was crafting.
Mine out 500 ore, chop down 500 trees, and click a single button to get a shiny new armor, is a time-sink wankery, not crafting.

 

[Poseidon00]

What kinda fuckin question is this

 

[Harthwain]

The irony is that what passes for crafting in modern games is not about crafting, but about collecting.
When you have a recipe and collected enough ingredients, you just click "craft" and it's done.

I liked forging weapons in Gothic. It wasn't complicated or dangerous, but - as you say - it was a whole process, which made it more engaging.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

I ain't even sure what is this discussion about. What BG2 has can technically be called crafting, but BG2 wasn't the first game to do it and it obviously has literally nothing to do with modern shit-tier crafting that serves to enforce the trash collecting aspect (as modern crpg are largely trash collecting simulators by almost default). It did inspire certain games (Wiz8 has an almost identical system, for example), but not modern console action rocket propelled grenades. BG2's cardinal sin is popularizing storyfaggotry and morrigan aerie approves, not crafting.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

BG2's cardinal sin is popularizing

rtwp

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Rtwp iso crpg as a thing died almost instantly after getting "popularized". Quirky funneh recruitable npcs with endless cringy dialogue and 12yo fan fiction romances, however...

 

[Mauman]

Less crafting and more like glorified fetch quests.

I find it hard to compare "Use 20 bear asses and 10 horse wieners to make the +2 dildo bat" and "bring me the hammerhead of chad and the rod of thunder for the hammer of Thunderous Chad".

They just don't feel even remotely the same.

 

[jackofshadows]

One of the most pointless, autistic and highly dangerous for one's mental health spontaneous threads I've seen so far.

As a general thread for crafting in RPGs is alright though, I suppose.

But fucking seriously are you that sensitive about how to call that stuff in BG2?

It also had castle-management by the way. Noooooooooooo it was just a quest! A quest with a few dialogues about it, shut the fuck up!

 

[rusty_shackleford]

It also had castle-management by the way

only if you were a fighter chad

 

[JarlFrank]

P.S. Grinding is unavoidable even if you're a thief class, in order to have high enough sneak/lockpick/pickpocket skills you need to steal a thousand common items or kill a thousand enemies in order to obtain necessary skill points.

Or you make a lot of money (not too hard when you know where to get some expensive items) and pay trainers to level up your relevant skills.

 

[nimateb]

Lol this thread, getting a weapon "assembled" in BG2 was cool as hell

 

[mondblut]

Less crafting and more like glorified fetch quests.

I find it hard to compare "Use 20 bear asses and 10 horse wieners to make the +2 dildo bat" and "bring me the hammerhead of chad and the rod of thunder for the hammer of Thunderous Chad".

They just don't feel even remotely the same.

Absolutely.

 

[ScrotumBroth]

Or you make a lot of money (not too hard when you know where to get some expensive items) and pay trainers to level up your relevant skills.

My statement was meant to encapsulate all RPGs, not just Morrowind. In Fallout 1/2 you get miniscule amounts for utilising skills and depend on farming slavers, bandits and other baddies for exp. Same with BG games. In a lot of RPGs you have to finish quests as primary source of experience and skill points.

So, one way or another, player is forced to "grind" in order to achieve mastery. You can meta cheat, but that defeats the purpose of this topic/argument.

 

[SharkClub]

Fallout 2 invented crafting because you can take 1 Xander Root and 1 Broc Flower to Hakunin to make 1 Healing Powder, so Fallout 2 is the harbinger of decline and all things crafting in modern games can be blamed on it.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

You can take a flint and a spear to one of the village warriors and get a sharpened spear, which makes it proto-BG2.

 

[JarlFrank]

Or you make a lot of money (not too hard when you know where to get some expensive items) and pay trainers to level up your relevant skills.

My statement was meant to encapsulate all RPGs, not just Morrowind. In Fallout 1/2 you get miniscule amounts for utilising skills and depend on farming slavers, bandits and other baddies for exp. Same with BG games. In a lot of RPGs you have to finish quests as primary source of experience and skill points.

So, one way or another, player is forced to "grind" in order to achieve mastery. You can meta cheat, but that defeats the purpose of this topic/argument.

I thought you meant Morrowind specifically because there skills increase by use.

Most regular CRPGs with classic XP systems have a fast enough leveling speed that grind is unnecessary.

In Arcanum, for example, you will likely hit the level cap before the final boss even if you rush through the game. In Baldur's Gate 2, quests give so much experience I never felt like having to grind encounters to level up. Etc.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

Don't forget the old Might and Magic games. You could get jewel stones crafted for you into new equipment. Damn, I didn't realize it but that crafting decline sure goes way back.

 

[SerratedBiz]

Now I feel like playing BG2 just to play a dual-wielding Kensai with CRAFTED Flail all over again.

 

[d1r]

Now I feel like playing BG2 just to play a dual-wielding Kensai with CRAFTED Flail all over again.

Was the Kensai kit the harbringer of decline that brought us Easy modes for games? Baldur's Gate 2 truly changed gaming forever!

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Whatever the fuck you want to call BG2's way of doing it was the best way of doing it.

 

[ScrotumBroth]

I thought you meant Morrowind specifically because there skills increase by use.

Fair enough, Morrowind is an easy target due to repetitive nature of upskilling, but it does allow you to become that legendary craftsman who makes their own ultra items, instead of having to buy them or kill for. There's awesome payoff at the end. But you're not forced to do it, you can just swing your sword, upskill that alone and go through the game that way. It's greedy and lazy to expect the same payoff for less effort invested.

Most regular CRPGs with classic XP systems have a fast enough leveling speed that grind is unnecessary.
In Arcanum, for example, you will likely hit the level cap before the final boss even if you rush through the game. In Baldur's Gate 2, quests give so much experience I never felt like having to grind encounters to level up. Etc.

I think you might be forgetting about hand-placed unique encounters/enemies with epic loot. Most people will not be able to defeat Kagnaxx upon discovering its lair for the first time. Hell, they'll likely die from not being able to scan high level traps. Same with Shalandar. Even Firkhaag really, on the first playthrough. So you go back, kill your orcs/goblins etc. do some easier side quests that you wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole otherwise. You bring back gnome's slippers, dreaming of gains that exp will get you later.

Each RPG will make you pay with your time IF you want to experience everything worthwhile experiencing.
We can dance around wording semantics, but it's basically grind.

 

[JarlFrank]

Most regular CRPGs with classic XP systems have a fast enough leveling speed that grind is unnecessary.
In Arcanum, for example, you will likely hit the level cap before the final boss even if you rush through the game. In Baldur's Gate 2, quests give so much experience I never felt like having to grind encounters to level up. Etc.

I think you might be forgetting about hand-placed unique encounters/enemies with epic loot. Most people will not be able to defeat Kagnaxx upon discovering its lair for the first time. Hell, they'll likely die from not being able to scan high level traps. Same with Shalandar. Even Firkhaag really, on the first playthrough. So you go back, kill your orcs/goblins etc. do some easier side quests that you wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole otherwise. You bring back gnome's slippers, dreaming of gains that exp will get you later.

Each RPG will make you pay with your time IF you want to experience everything worthwhile experiencing.
We can dance around wording semantics, but it's basically grind.

Finding an enemy too tough for your current level and returning later is a staple of RPG gameplay, and it's fun.
It doesn't require grind as long as there are enough unique side quests and encounters to allow you to naturally level up to the point that you can face said enemy.

Grind is the act of farming repeated encounters in order to level up. Doing the exact same shit over and over again. Like resting in the same dangerous spot several times in a row to cause random rest interrupt encounters to spawn, or walking back and forth through the same stretch of wilderness to provoke random encounters, etc.

If you encounter only unique content throughout your game and don't deliberately farm repeatable encounters, you are not grinding. You are just playing an RPG normally.