Did the Souls-like replace the Devil-May-Cry-like?

[Louis_Cypher]

With one prominent exception (Devil May Cry 5), they reached a saturation in 2010 then slowly abated. Demon's Souls appeared in 2009 and Dark Souls in 2011. Both sub-genres are where all the best mythological-themed games tend to be. They don't have a lot of difference in some ways, being essentially melee action, except how the previous had more focus on hit counters, move strings, rankings, and less RPG elements. Two notable companies have been an exponent of both: From Software (Otogi, Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, Bloodborne, Sekiro, Elden Ring), Team Ninja (Ninja Gaiden, Nioh, Wo Long).

Some prominent DMC-style action adventure games:

2001 - Onimusha 1
2002 - Onimusha 2
2004 - Onimusha 3
2001 - Devil May Cry 1
2003 - Devil May Cry 2
2005 - Devil May Cry 3
2008 - Devil May Cry 4
2019 - Devil May Cry 5
2002 - Otogi 1
2003 - Otogi 2
2003 - Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time
2010 - Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands
2004 - Prince of Persia: Warrior Within
2005 - Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones
2004 - Ninja Gaiden 1
2008 - Ninja Gaiden 2
2012 - Ninja Gaiden 3
2005 - God of War 1
2007 - God of War 2
2010 - God of War 3
2007 - Conan
2008 - Star Wars: The Force Unleashed 1
2010 - Star Wars: The Force Unleashed 2
2010 - Dante's Inferno
2010 - Castlevania: Lords of Shadow

Some prominent Souls-like action adventure games:

2009 - Demon's Souls
2011 - Dark Souls 1
2014 - Dark Souls 2
2016 - Dark Souls 3
2014 - Lords of the Fallen
2015 - Bloodborne
2016 - Necropolis
2017 - Nioh 1
2020 - Nioh 2
2018 - Ashen
2018 - Immortal Unchained
2019 - Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice
2019 - Star Wars: Jedi - Fallen Order
2023 - Star Wars: Jedi - Survivor
2020 - Mortal Shell
2022 - Elden Ring
???? - Wo Long: Fallen Dynasty
???? - Black Myth: Wukong

 

[Dadd]

They have been gradually merging to become a thing worse than either

 

[Chanel Oberlin]

Making soulslikes is easier and you can cultivate a cult following with one simple trick:

image too big

 

[Lokiamis]

Bayonetta 3 came out a few months ago.

 

[Artyoan]

I hope so.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

No
Because spectacle fighters still exist and their type of gameplay is clearly distinct to Souls-likes (so the latter can't replace the former)
Also I would say Sekiro, despite it's lite RPG elements, is due to it's combat mechanics more in line with the definition of spectacle fighters than From's previous games

 

[Elttharion]

Making soulslikes is easier and you can cultivate a cult following with one simple trick:

image too big

Sam Winkler
@ThatSamWinkler

Lead Writer: Tiny Tina’s Wonderlands | Prev: Borderlands 3 + DLCs | Senior Writer at
@gearboxofficial

 

[Chanel Oberlin]

Sam Winkler
@ThatSamWinkler

Lead Writer: Tiny Tina’s Wonderlands | Prev: Borderlands 3 + DLCs | Senior Writer at
@gearboxofficial

Broken clock and all that

 

[Louis_Cypher]

spectacle fighters

Spectacle fighters... thats not a bad name. What exactly is the official name of the Devil May Cry genre? I've never known all these years. I've heard them called 'Hack and Slash' or just 'Action Game' (which is way too broad).

I would rather both continued, but it seems like Souls has ascended in popularity, almost as if 'at the other's expense'.

 

[Dedicated_Dark]

spectacle fighters

Spectacle fighters... thats not a bad name. What exactly is the official name of the Devil May Cry genre? I've never known all these years. I've heard them called 'Hack and Slash' or just 'Action Game' (which is way too broad).

I would rather both continued, but it seems like Souls has ascended in popularity, almost as if 'at the other's expense'.

Hate that term spectacle fighters, it sounds demeaning to me. For example just because Ninja Gaiden is able do action better and make it look spectacular above most others, you imply it to be of style rather than substance while others are still crawling on the mud over there.

Spectacle fighters feel like a term you should use for Dynasty Warriors mash fest, not pure unadulterated action games.

 

[Louis_Cypher]

Point taken. What should they be called in that case?

On replacing one another:

Take Nioh or Sekiro as an example... If it was developed in 2005, it would have certainly been a Devil May Cry / Ninja Gaiden type game. Now 3D Samurai or Ninja games have a much higher chance of being a Soulslike, than a DMC-like. Same goes for anything with stylish ideas, demon-related plots like Dante's Inferno or Devil May Cry, I think.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Spectacle fighters... thats not a bad name. What exactly is the official name of the Devil May Cry genre? I've never known all these years. I've heard them called 'Hack and Slash' or just 'Action Game' (which is way too broad).

I don't think there's any agreed upon definition...

From what I can tell, "Spectacle Fighters" is an old term used mainly by fans of these types of games
The industry at large just seems to call them "Action Games" (which I agree with you is way too broad a category since it encompass a whole host of videogame subgenres), or when they want to get more specific - "Hack 'n' Slash"/"Beat 'em Up"

Honestly, video game classification in general is a mess and seems to be something even people that like to analyse the medium don't really bother themselves trying to clear up
Personally I use to the term "Brawler" to describe any and all "Hack 'n' Slashes"+"Beat 'em Ups" - and then further distinguish that subdivision by "Spectacle fighters" and well... games that don't fit that definition.

 

[Dedicated_Dark]

Point taken. What should they be called in that case?

PS: Vanquish is an action game, RE6 is an action game. Feels like those will be kicked out when you sub-classify action.

 

[orcinator]

The rise and fall of beat em up trends is more like:
DMC clones -> God of War Clones -> Bamham clones -> Dark Souls Clones
with DMC and GoW clones being the only ones directly related to each other.

 

[Machocruz]

Point taken. What should they be called in that case?

"Character Action" is another I've heard used frequently for Devil May Cry and games designed with similar principles. But I think just calling them "games like _____" is more than adequate to get the point across for the purposes of the thread topic, unless a person doesn't know what _____ is like, then further description is required. But genre labels are supposed to be fairly general and thus inadequate for getting much information across about what a particular game, and it's descendants, are doing.

As far as one thing falling while another rises, this is natural and has always been. Everything has a season. Like anything else, the DMC legacy waxed and waned (but will probably never extinguish). Souls like games will also, then there will be another melee action game that dozens will use as their model

 

[Ezekiel]

"Character action" is so fucking cringey. Everyone on Giantbomb used it before I got banned from there years ago, just because one of the video commentators they worshipped used it. Was like a weird cult. Agree, just call Devil May Cry "action."

 

[Hammer Of The Heretics]

I've seen them referred to as "stylish action" games before.

 

[Wunderbar]

Apparently, the recently released Hi-Fi Rush is very good. It's a budget title made by The Evil Within devs, Microsoft just shadow-dropped it yesterday, with zero advertising. Costs $30.

Anyone played it yet? It looks like something that could've been made by Platinum or Clover back in the day.

 

[cretin]

I fucking detest the term "soulslike" because it implies there are actually many clones of souls to speak of. There isn't, and the action adventure genre would be a lot better off if there were actual shameless clones of DS.

8 of the games on your "soulslike" list are from the same developer, 5 of which are not soulslike, but actually literally souls (and yes, I am implying ER is dark souls IV, because it is).

Perhaps I'm being pedantic but I don't think so

 

[Vic]

???

These 2 genres are nothing alike.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

"Character action" is so fucking cringey. Everyone on Giantbomb used it before I got banned from there years ago, just because one of the video commentators they worshipped used it. Was like a weird cult. Agree, just call Devil May Cry "action."

kind of like how people on this site insist on using the term "blobber"

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

I wouldn’t say games imitating Dark Souls replaced games made in the style of Devil May Cry; because really, there weren’t all that many game trying to be like DMC, and what there was basically died down before Dark Souls ever came around.

Almost none of the games the OP list I’d even say are trying to be like DMC, let alone actually similar. God of War is a DMC ripoff, but it’s also an extremely simplified one that doesn’t really feel like DMC. Ninja Gaiden, Otogi, the Prince of Persia games, Force Unleashed...none of these game even kind of play like DMC. That in and of itself isn’t a knock on any of those games either, like Ninja Gaiden and Ninja Gaiden 2 are two of the best action games ever made, but they’re also very different from the DMC games.

I wouldn’t even say Onimusha is similar to Devil May Cry, and they’ve both got a point of origin in Resident Evil. Although Devil May Cry is probably why you don’t get Onimusha games from Capcom anymore. Seems Capcom may be working on a new Onimusha going off that leak list.

 

[Louis_Cypher]

I'm not gonna take definitions to extremes; we know DMC and Otogi have different mechanics. So do two different Fords but both are Fords.

For example: Resident Evil 1 and Fatal Frame 1 have some pretty major differences, but both would be described as 'survival horror' by most sources, probably because they have similar camera perspectives, and are horror games. Their combat and item management differ considerably. As someone said here recently, actually 'survival horror' is a marketing term invented in the 1990s to sell things, and they are both 'adventure games'. The 'adventure game' being the general primordial game mechanics term for any game in which you collect keys to open new areas. Exploring locations for keys/puzzles, to go farther, opening new areas, is adventure games foundational mechanic.

So by that standard, Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden, God of War, are all 'action games', which is the primordial game mechanical name for any game with action in. It's a definition so broad that it includes pretty much everything. So we must narrow it down. However, arguing that Devil May Cry is nothing alike Ninja Gaiden would be clearly wrong. They are both "games where you hit shit until orbs spew out like a pinata". NG, GOW, etc, were also without a doubt influenced by Devil May Cry, because essentially every post-DMC action game with swords was influenced by DMC. Health bar in top corner, combos, weapons, clearing rooms of enemies, orbs for spending, set-piece bosses.

They don't have to be identical. Anyway, in practice most games listed so far are 'action adventure', a super-broad catagory again, which has key items and action. Everything from Metroid to Tomb Raider to Zelda is an 'action adventure'. So in practice we break them into stuff like adventure shooters, Metroidvania, DMC-like, etc, etc, etc. Game genres are a mess! I realised from the discussion in the Dino Crisis thread.

I knew before even making the thread that people would complain some of them don't deserve to be in the same list. It was just a friendly way of illustrating how 'mythical pinata action games' about ninjas, demons, etc, tend to now be developed as Soulslikes first, when a developer gets an idea. It was just meant to trigger some discussion, not be a final pronouncement on whether Prince of Persia is DMC-like enough.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

The Force Unleashed is not a "DMC-like". Might as well include Epic Mickey on your list, has about as much to do with DMC. Same for Prince of Persia.

All this argument about genre titles is gay. You know what's a good genre name? Rogue-like. If that bitch is like Rogue, then it's a fucking Rogue-like. Should just use that same convention for everything. "Immersive sim"? Call it a System Shock-like, or a Shock-like. "Survival horror"? Call it an RE-like, or an Alone in the Dark-like if you want to be anal about it. This is all genres are for, anyway. "Do you like this game? Then you'll like this one!"
Immersive sim, survival horror, character action... all these are just phrases used to refer to extremely specific types of games, which are at the end of the day just derivative of the big titles of that "genre". People shit on the term "metroidvania", and though I agree it's pretty overused and often misused (people arguing that System Shock is a metroidvania, lol), it's descriptive and accomplishes its goal. "Do you like Metroid or the exploration-heavy Castlevania games? Then you'll like this game!" It should really just be called "Metroid-like" (Metroid being the first game to combine side-scrolling platforming with adventure-game style non-linear exploration, to my knowledge), but whatever. Maybe the people coming up with these genre nicknames just want to add some variety.

As for the OP's thesis statement, it's just game devs following trends. Something vaguely approximating DMC was the most popular style of melee combat, so when a game was going for melee combat, it'd often be derivative of DMC in some way. Now Dark Souls is the big trendy game for melee combat, so they copy that instead. I haven't played many "souls-likes", but I bet most of them have little to do with Dark Souls besides some dodge rolls and parries.

 

[Louis_Cypher]

I'm sticking with "mythical pinata-em-up hack-and-slash action-adventure". MPEUHASAA.