[Discussion] M&M 3-5 style ranged combat

[Chris Koźmik]

People were asking me to introduce ranged combat in Legends of Amberland. They say it was done in M&M 3-5 so it's doable.
But, M&M 3-5 has a dark secret... monsters do not shoot at you if you do not see them (so the viable tactic is to turn around and move backwards approaching a ranged enemy, this allows you to ignore the enemy attacks). That's the trick that allowed them to implement such ranged combat system, without overburdening the UI (who shot at you at which direction, you ALWAYS see the enemy that targets you).

It was viable in the past, before the internet, but if I would try to do something like that nowadays, such exploit would be widely known and I would simply get bug reports about it...

Ideas how to approach this problem?

 

[manifest]

Make arrows to the back crit.

 

[Chris Koźmik]

BTW, Kordanor made an interesting quick video how it works in M&M X: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkMCv4m1oJQ

 

[Grauken]

People were asking me to introduce ranged combat in Legends of Amberland. They say it was done in M&M 3-5 so it's doable.
But, M&M 3-5 has a dark secret... monsters do not shoot at you if you do not see them (so the viable tactic is to turn around and move backwards approaching a ranged enemy, this allows you to ignore the enemy attacks). That's the trick that allowed them to implement such ranged combat system, without overburdening the UI (who shot at you at which direction, you ALWAYS see the enemy that targets you).

It was viable in the past, before the internet, but if I would try to do something like that nowadays, such exploit would be widely known and I would simply get bug reports about it...

Ideas how to approach this problem?

I never knew this but now that I know, damn it changes everything

 

[rusty_shackleford]

you already have a way to display this in your current game

the minimap, place a marker in the direction of where you last got hit if you can't see the target or something

perhaps consider an accessibility option to make being hit from behind/side more noticeable for deaf people beyond the UI damage splash over the character, I guess.

 

[Darth Canoli]

But, M&M 3-5 has a dark secret... monsters do not shoot at you if you do not see them (so the viable tactic is to turn around and move backwards approaching a ranged enemy, this allows you to ignore the enemy attacks). That's the trick that allowed them to implement such ranged combat system, without overburdening the UI (who shot at you at which direction, you ALWAYS see the enemy that targets you).

I never knew about this but I didn't use M&M 6+ switching combat modes exploit either.
If players want to cheat, they're only cheating themselves as it's a standalone game.

Just make the enemies visible on the map, blue for neutral, green for non-aggressive or the ones whom didn't spot your party, yellow for aggressive ones and red for the ones attacking, be it ranged or close combat.
Maybe add a range limit for spells and ranged weapons like 2/3 for spells and 3/4 for ranged weapons or just. 2 and 3.

In that case, the player always know which monsters attacked and you can't get attacked from too far away which would probably cause some problems.

Also, if you're not implementing caches like in early M&M or any other case sensitive things you can't spot if you don't walk on it, maybe you should increase the tiles clearing area from your current position to an aura of 1 or 2 tiles around the party.
It would help my autism making me walk every single tile to clear them all.

 

[vlzvl]

Why do you care if the opponent sees you or not?

I have implemented ranged combat in The Darkness Below, although it's only allowed when the monsters are in neighbor squares i.e. the squares where the turn based battle is initiated, directly in front, back, left or right side.

If a character in my party gets a hit, I don't care from whom the hit came from, I know it came from some monster in the squares around the party, and I only use those blood graphics and an appropriate animation attack, unless they're attacks that take time i.e. a fireball coming for far away; In this case, if my party is not facing the some monster, I just show the blood graphics instantly and be done with it, otherwise the battle wont be quick but annoying.