Arkane Dishonored 2 - Emily and Corvo's Serkonan Vacation

[skacky]

Doesn't beat Thief 1 and 2 because the stealth mechanics in DH1/2 are primitive in comparison, but it is still a really stellar game nonetheless and lights years ahead of pretty much anything in the past years. Mission 8 is another excellent sneaker too.

 

[Great Deceiver]

I haven't played Dishonored 2, but to compare the first game's stealth to Thief is really not to understand anything about Thief. Stealth in Dishonored was an afterthought, the game is entirely trivial and there is no tension or consequence to being caught. The level design is primitive beyond belief and also gated behind loading times, similar to Deadly Shadows - a symptom of consolitis. Except even Deadly Shadows was a much better stealth game than Dishonored.

Unless they've pulled a true miracle of level design in the sequel, I don't see how it's possible to compare it with Thief, based on the mechanics alone.

 

[Siel]

How people still think Dishonored is a stealth game 4 years after it released is beyond me.

 

[Silva]

Forget everything about Dishonored 1 for stealth. Number 2 revamps the entire shit. Makes Thief and it's magical shadows obsolete.

Deman, stealth-wise, what Thief does that Dishinored 2 doesn't ?

 

[Darth Slaughter]

Forget everything about Dishonored 1 for stealth. Number 2 revamps the entire shit. Makes Thief and it's magical shadows obsolete.

Deman, stealth-wise, what Thief does that Dishinored 2 doesn't ?

Sound design, but it comes close... rope arrows. garret can reach everywhere. Corvo/Emily can too, but only with powers... Oh, and lock-piking. Oh, one thing that dishonored (1&2) does great in regards to tension is knocking down opponents is very similar to lockpoking mechanics from thief.

And dishonored could be an improvement over thief if it had a shadow system. Of course not in broad daylight, but in interiors it would be great.

 

[Siel]

Forget everything about Dishonored 1 for stealth. Number 2 revamps the entire shit. Makes Thief and it's magical shadows obsolete.

Deman, stealth-wise, what Thief does that Dishinored 2 doesn't ?

Sound.

 

[Darth Slaughter]

Forget everything about Dishonored 1 for stealth. Number 2 revamps the entire shit. Makes Thief and it's magical shadows obsolete.

Deman, stealth-wise, what Thief does that Dishinored 2 doesn't ?

Sound.

As I mentioned. And dishonored has the "magical crouching". In thief, sound would depend on ground type, distance from the AI, speed over that ground. You could run and be silent, or crouch and be noisy. If you crouch in dishonored, you're "inaudible". But you can't be silent by walking standing up. Thief 3 also had magical crouching, but you could walk and not be noticed.

 

[Crooked Bee]

For the DLC, I think they will go with Megan Foster story.

And for Dishonored 3 I have no idea.

I wonder if there's even going to be any proper DLC (or a sequel for that matter), unless that DLC is already done or won't cost them much to finish. I just had a look at Steamspy and it shows ~250,000 owners, which is pretty much a disaster sales-wise for a big Bethesda release.

But yeah, Meagan's story is one obvious potential DLC hook.

 

[Echo Mirage]

The Crown killer also has a lot of potential for a DLC.

 

[vortex]

I wonder if there's even going to be any proper DLC (or a sequel for that matter), unless that DLC is already done or won't cost them much to finish. I just had a look at Steamspy and it shows ~250,000 owners, which is pretty much a disaster sales-wise for a big Bethesda release.

But yeah, Meagan's story is one obvious potential DLC hook.

That's because of huge technical issues, I guess. Also, they should have keep the engine performance scalable to original Dishonored. They have cut this way some of the player base with budget PC specs.
I think it will reach it's intial success when they drop the price.

Altough, it has huge and rich levels, now it feels short in retrospective. Or is that just hunger for more of this world?

As Daud had his story as villain, maybe Jindosh could have his DLC. People liked that mission the most.

 

[Crooked Bee]

If there were to be a villain DLC, I'd like it to have Delilah as protagonist. She has the Outsider's powers (which would allow for Dishonored's usual playstyle) and has plenty of stories to tell; and while I haven't finished the game yet, the narrative does show her having her own side of the story and her own 'truth', however twisted, so it'd be nice to explore it some more.

 

[skacky]

And finished it. Low chaos, clean hands, flesh and steel, very hard with Corvo for Stephen Russell's sweet, sexy voice. What a game. WHAT A GAME!
Every mission in this game is fantastic. The level design is absolutely incredible. There is nothing to throw away. I've not been this giddy playing maps in a long, long while. Dishonored's level design was already very very good but this tramples everything released in the past decade in this domain, easily, including the original. Like I said above the stealth mechanics are much too simple to rival Thief (lack of sound propagation, no lights and shadows, enemies are sometimes really blind and really dumb, etc) but it feels absolutely fantastic if you play it like you're the fucking Batman, using your speed and agility to get the drop on people and pick them off one by one. Still, this proves that Arkane really are a huge step above pretty much all other studios at the moment. Their craft is remarkable. They make AAA games but with soul.

Spoiler

I was very afraid Dunwall Tower would feel like a rehash of the Lord Regent mission but I was pleasantly surprised. First by the completely bizarre atmosphere of doom with the empty streets, and second by the state of utter disrepair of the palace itself which made for some interesting layout changes. This mission was pretty hard and I had to conserve my tools as much as possible. The kitchen area in particular was rather tough. The painting world was rather cool but it felt a bit disappointing to re-use pretty much the same setup as in the last mission of the Brigmore Witches.

Looking forward to playing as Emily with powers this time.

 

[Darth Slaughter]

And finished it. Low chaos, clean hands, flesh and steel, very hard with Corvo for Stephen Russell's sweet, sexy voice. What a game. WHAT A GAME!
Every mission in this game is fantastic. The level design is absolutely incredible. There is nothing to throw away. I've not been this giddy playing maps in a long, long while. Dishonored's level design was already very very good but this tramples everything released in the past decade in this domain, easily, including the original. Like I said above the stealth mechanics are much too simple to rival Thief (lack of sound propagation, no lights and shadows, enemies are sometimes really blind and really dumb, etc) but it feels absolutely fantastic if you play it like you're the fucking Batman, using your speed and agility to get the drop on people and pick them off one by one. Stiil, this proves that Arkane really are a huge step above pretty much all other studios at the moment. Their craft is remarkable. They make AAA games but with soul.

Spoiler

I was very afraid Dunwall Tower would feel like a rehash of the Lord Regent mission but I was pleasantly surprised. First by the completely bizarre atmosphere of doom with the empty streets, and second by the state of utter disrepair of the palace itself which made for some interesting layout changes. This mission was pretty hard and I had to conserve my tools as much as possible. The kitchen area in particular was rather tough. The painting world was rather cool but it felt a bit disappointing to re-use pretty much the same setup as in the last mission of the Brigmore Witches.

Looking forward to playing as Emily with powers this time.

I'm glad to hear this, as it looks like an inspiration for upcoming thief maps/FM from you.

 

[toro]

Fuck mission 4

Edit: Morgoth of course I'm butt-hurt

The entire mission is a fiasco from a game design point of view cause the immersion factor was thrown out the window for this mission. There is no immersion for a stealth approach. Except if you like pretending.

Just think for one second: How do you feel ghosting a level when the villain sees and taunts your every move !? The answer is simple: retarded

The Clockwork Mansion level design is amazing but the level is ruined by the bullshit above.

 

[Morgoth]

Finished it yesterday night. Hard, No-kill, Low Chaos, all Optional missions, all runes, almost all bone charms.

Wow. I feel drained. That's some of the most brilliant level design I've seen for a really long time. That kind of authorship and creativity that went into the missions is unequaled in this day and age, as each mission bears a distinguishable fingerprint of ingenuity and tireless work from the level-designer/architect duo inside. A kind of design ethos only reminiscent of the old Thief and Deus Ex days.

I'm not even trying to write down the myriad of things that were improved upon D1 (almost everything, especially the AI), or go into each mission and it's themes speciafically, so I'll cut to the chase about some minor critique:

-Powers. Domino + Shadow Walk is essentially cheating. Only the alertness and aggressiveness of the AI can sometimes spoil an otherwise perfectly devised assault on a flock of Grand Guards. I hate if things go messy, so quickload spamming was the order of the day. Eventually, I just resorted going back to my usual gameplay style: Stealth + Far Reach + Choking, with the occassianl Domino when applicable. Shadow Walk was truly useful though when I needed to bybass the gravehounds in the Dunwall tower. I also found Doppelgänger to be more detrimental than useful. Often times the AI would in all the ensuing mayhem spot me rather than get distracted by the decoy.
-Lacking sense of dread from non-humanoid AIs: The "Clankers" (Clockwork soldiers) aren't really dangerous at all. Drop jumping on them is a child's play, otherwise just lure them into a small room and toss two grenades at them. The Tall Men in D1 were a more formidable enemy. Also the bloodflies: First time I came near a nest I thought "oh-oh", but turns out evading them isn't worth the effort. I just slash my way through like a maniac with the sword while barely sustaining any damage. The nestkeepers later can spice things up a little bit, but overall the bloodflies don't require the heed and respect that rat swarms in D1 required.
-Story: Didn't really carry the same weight as D1. The ending felt anticlimatic, and they could have developed Meagan a bit more, but this isn't exactly a storyfag game. The actual highlight here was reading the countless notes and diaries and love letters you find along the way. I thought the little incident with Emily and Alexi in the carriage was especially touching.
-The Outsider's new voice: WTF is this shit???

Overall, Arkane really outdid themselves with this, and I hope the game makes enough coin to warrant another sequel. Spoiled whiners and game journos be damned, as I think the early performance issues have cost the game quite some sales.

9/10 would will play again.

 

[toro]

Fuck mission 4

Yesterday I wrote a big rant about the game and then I've deleted it because I wanted to be sure that I'm not ranting for no reason (which happens more often than I like to admit).

The main complain is this: no-powers ghosting is fucked up. For a couple of reasons: encounter design, AI and quick-load.
- At specific moments the game likes to put you against multiple enemies (usually 3 or 4). Well, this is bullshit because if you are out of sleep darts or mines then your have to fight (which means no ghosting).
- Some runes are not accessible without powers. I found such a case in the 3rd mission (probably it will be patched up at some point).
- AI is still dumb as a brick. I don't know what everybody else is raving about but you can still sit comfortably above the head of the guards. On the other hand, they can see you through obstacles: closed windows with shutters or chairs, sofas and other quite big objects. This has to be fixed.
- Quick-load bugs. You never know what happens after you reload a quick-save and you are fucked if you quick-save near a guard.
For some enemies the alert state is reset after quick-load -> if the enemy was near a deactivated light wall then he will get alerted again even if he was not alerted when you quick-saved.
For some enemies the alert state is never reset on quick-load -> you save, you do some mistake and then you reload -> enemy alert state is as it was before you loaded (and not in the state when you quick-saved).
As I said, you never know what will happen with guards alert state after reloading. This has to be fixed asap.

 

[toro]

Fuck mission 4

One more post about this:

My ghost run of Clockwork Mission was ruined because I accidentally killed an unconscious NPC when I robbed the black market. I wish the game would inform me about this shit.
Also at some point, in order to get a rune I had to take out 5 guards: 1 was static watching the path to the rune -> another one was static watching the 1st one -> 3 guards were wandering around -> the rune was in the middle of all of them.
Seriously, I've spent 30 minutes trying to get the rune without taking out the guards but is not possible without taking the first two guards at the same time. Distraction didn't work because one of them was almost guaranteed to spot you.
I fucking hate this thing. I would like to take out as few as possible guards but in this situation I had to take out all the guards on the level. Brilliant encounter design.

 

[His Majesty]

The game informs you about it: it's in the stats menu.

Fuck mission 4

- At specific moments the game likes to put you against multiple enemies (usually 3 or 4). Well, this is bullshit because if you are out of sleep darts or mines then your have to fight (which means no ghosting).

wow so you mean to say there are consequences for not properly preparing your ghost run

 

[skacky]

With careful planning, distraction and/or a bit of luck you can get rid of a vast majority of the opposition without having to use stun mines or sleep darts. There's a few occasions where you have to use these but they are few and far between.

 

[toro]

The game informs you about it: it's in the stats menu.

Fuck mission 4

- At specific moments the game likes to put you against multiple enemies (usually 3 or 4). Well, this is bullshit because if you are out of sleep darts or mines then your have to fight (which means no ghosting).

wow so you mean to say there are consequences for not properly preparing your ghost run

wow so edgy

 

[skacky]

The entire mission is a fiasco from a game design point of view cause the immersion factor was thrown out the window for this mission. There is no immersion for a stealth approach. Except if you like pretending.

Just think for one second: How do you feel ghosting a level when the villain sees and taunts your every move !? The answer is simple: retarded

Didn't see this, but you can finish the mission without Jindosh ever knowing you were there.

Spoiler

I went to his mansion by the broken bridge foundations, not by taking the carriage. Once you flip the first lever you need to get out of sight as fast as possible so that he doesn't see you and thinks it's a false positive. If you do it right and play the mission stealthily without arousing suspicion and without activating mechanisms or running around carelessly, the guy won't ever suspect you were there.

 

[Sodafish]

Didn't see this, but you can finish the mission without Jindosh ever knowing you were there.

Spoiler

I went to his mansion by the broken bridge foundations, not by taking the carriage. Once you flip the first lever you need to get out of sight as fast as possible so that he doesn't see you and thinks it's a false positive. If you do it right and play the mission stealthily without arousing suspicion and without activating mechanisms or running around carelessly, the guy won't ever suspect you were there.

Spoiler

You don't even need to flip the lever; you can smash the glass panels in the ceiling of that room and clumb up there to get behind the walls

 

[toro]

Didn't see this, but you can finish the mission without Jindosh ever knowing you were there.

Spoiler

I went to his mansion by the broken bridge foundations, not by taking the carriage. Once you flip the first lever you need to get out of sight as fast as possible so that he doesn't see you and thinks it's a false positive. If you do it right and play the mission stealthily without arousing suspicion and without activating mechanisms or running around carelessly, the guy won't ever suspect you were there.

Spoiler

You don't even need to flip the lever; you can smash the glass panels in the ceiling of that room and clumb up there to get behind the walls

Ok. It's good that the game allows this but :
- Whatever you said doesn't work without powers - you need Blink or Far Reach.
- In Arkane's opinion you get Ghostly even if you press the Configurations switches and he sees you.

Can we stop arguing about this bullshit?

Edit: I see lot of people saying that it can be done without powers but the things is: there is no way to jump so high for that glass ceiling. I did not test it but I'm quite sure of it.

 

[skacky]

I finished the game without powers.

 

[toro]

I finished the game without powers.

Good for you. I was referring to what Sodafish said.