Divinity: Original Sin 2 Early Access Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[DraQ]

Wouldn't that be schizophrenic though? Kinda like playing chess with yourself. You would know everyone's motivations and plans; when you enact them you'll already know the reaction of some other character because it's you, while all the while knowing that this outcome was wanted by a third character with whom you orchestrated it. It's more like playing with a doll house than chess now that I think about it. Bashing figures into one another, screaming "look they are having sex!". Ugh, weird.

I agree, it was already weird in D:OS, taxing as well.

A good option would be being able to pre-configure other character's personality and then treat them like recruited NPC. But it would be hard to do and test.

 

[SniperHF]

A good option would be being able to pre-configure other character's personality and then treat them like recruited NPC. But it would be hard to do and test.

The configuration wasn't granular, but 1 did have ai personalities you could assign.

 

[SniperHF]

Torment 2:

74,405 backers
28,205 Steam owners


Hm.

I think there's validity to the usual idea that the story heavy game isn't going to have as many people interested in a beta. But they have lately single digit player counts. That's pretty alarming.

 

[Lacrymas]

I agree, it was already weird in D:OS, taxing as well.

A good option would be being able to pre-configure other character's personality and then treat them like recruited NPC. But it would be hard to do and test.

You can set pre-existing personalities to one or both the PCs in D:OS1 :p

 

[Black]

Guys please don't fight.

 

[Lucky]

I'm off the same opinion as Zombra on this. The player controls the set up and the ruleset of the game decides how it plays out. Adding competitive questing exponentially increases the number of possible ways for this to take place because you no longer have an avatar skewing the results in a particular direction, plus interlacing quests creating tension and conflict. Interpreting that as total control is pointlessly general and could be applied to pretty much any singleplayer game.

Guys please don't fight.

This Sandro guy looks trustworthy.

 

[Zarniwoop]

It's OK if you have fun playing an RPG party as a single brain with 12 arms that just wants to kill everything in sight

Better copyright this post pronto, or Bioware will definitely steal it for the next Ass Effect villain.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Every Divinity game has had this kind of item system, what makes you think they'd ever change it?

Maybe the realization that it was garbage.
Itemization was arguably the most criticized aspect of the first game.They are not just refusing to change it for some weird obsession on "sticking with their guns", but even ignoring to address its most blatant flaws, like the fact that items are re-rolled randomly every time you reload a save, factually encouraging (if not even rewarding) compulsive behavior.

Because some people learn from their mistakes?

Exactly.

 

[anus_pounder]

Was wondering, how much does the two tags you can add onto blank-slate characters change the game? Is it just adding some new tag related ways of saying 'continue conversation', 'yes', 'no' ?

 

[Roguey]

Itemization was arguably the most criticized aspect of the first game.They are not just refusing to change it for some weird obsession on "sticking with their guns", but even ignoring to address its most blatant flaws, like the fact that items are re-rolled randomly every time you reload a save, factually encouraging (if not even rewarding) compulsive behavior.

The way the RNG works in D:OS EE is pretty weird https://www.reddit.com/r/DivinityOriginalSin/comments/3zgsvu/how_loot_works_in_dosee/

You ultimately get the same items every time unless you open a different type of container.

 

[Lacrymas]

It's not only about save-scumming, where they could go in any number of ways to get around that, it's about the scaling items. This "overpopulation" of high quality items kills any sort of connection you have to them and invalidates any hand-placed unique items because you know that you'll replace them eventually with something "...of the Owl". Level restriction on items is also one accomplice in this sinful crime, levels-as-power is only MMO design and are nonsensical in single-player RPGs. The level is simply the numerical representation of your power growth, not the power itself which this level restriction turns it into. The way you restrict people from having access to more powerful items on level 1 (which would break the game) is by restricting money, so you can't buy them off vendors, or make it impossible (kinda, we all know the Advanced Power Armor in Fallout 2) for level 1s to have access to that kind of gear.

I feel like "modern" devs are implementing ridiculous solutions to imaginary problems. "Origin stories" instead of choices taking you on a different playthrough. Level restrictions instead of cutting access to more powerful items by design. "Crafting" instead of quests in the vein of BG2 where you collect items to craft powerful, *unique* items. Random loot to increase replayability while being oblivious to the fact that that cuts down replayability because you know it's all going to be random anyway and you can't look forward to getting that dagger you couldn't use on your mage for your rogue. Scaling gear/mobs so you can "play it your way" while neglecting that that destroys any sense of progression and works counter to the idea of "playing it your way", coupled with what I already said that in a proper RPG you can't have rats that are 20th lvl, that only happens when the level is power, instead of the other way around etc. etc.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Random loot to increase replayability while being oblivious to the fact that that cuts down replayability because you know it's all going to be random anyway and you can't look forward to getting that dagger you couldn't use on your mage for your rogue.

I agree with your entire post in general, but you have no idea for how many years I've been arguing this very point across multiple games.

I can't genuinely understand what makes some people think that randomized, generic loot makes additional playthrough "more interesting" and diversified. It's always been the exact opposite to me.
It's never "Everything feels new and exciting every time"; rather "Everything feels same-y at any given moment".

 

[Neanderthal]

Some pretty good unique loot in Div Div if I remember right, Sword of Chaos hidden near Dwarf village were just about best weapon you could get, that Silver Breastplate, Holy Stuff yadda yadda. Pity they went other way.

 

[Infinitron]

"Origin stories" instead of choices taking you on a different playthrough.

This is silly. Origins don't preclude making choices in gameplay, and they allow you to define your character in a way that would be outside the scope of a normal RPG plot. It's like complaining that playing Geralt in The Witcher replaces the choice to become a Witcher in the game.

 

[Bubbles]

It's not only about save-scumming, where they could go in any number of ways to get around that, it's about the scaling items. This "overpopulation" of high quality items kills any sort of connection you have to them and invalidates any hand-placed unique items because you know that you'll replace them eventually with something "...of the Owl". Level restriction on items is also one accomplice in this sinful crime

Eh, the Spear of Braccus Rex served me well for a big chunk of the EA area, and you can get it immediately at level 1. Same with the teleportation gloves and the restoration ring (if I'd kept it). And none of them were level restricted the last time I checked. Did they change that in the latest patch?

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

It's not only about save-scumming, where they could go in any number of ways to get around that, it's about the scaling items. This "overpopulation" of high quality items kills any sort of connection you have to them and invalidates any hand-placed unique items because you know that you'll replace them eventually with something "...of the Owl". Level restriction on items is also one accomplice in this sinful crime

Eh, the Spear of Braccus Rex served me well for a big chunk of the EA area, and you can get it immediately at level 1. Same with the teleportation gloves and the restoration ring (if I'd kept it). And none of them were level restricted the last time I checked. Did they change that in the latest patch?

I think level restrictions are simply gone in this sequel. At least in the EA build.

About these three examples you are mentioning (there are few more) I think they just help to reinforce the idea that unique loot is more interesting than the randomized one.
The problem that remains is: the game still relies on randomization too much. There should be more of the former, less of the latter.

 

[Lacrymas]

Bubbles , I was talking about modern trends in general, not everything is in D:OS1/2.

Infinitron , you should've been able to pick your backstory in dialogue options, not in the char generation screen. Char-gen is *not* a replacement for in-narrative tools. If you want to tell a "story" with a specific character background, like in KotOR2, oh, I don't know, make it like KotOR2.

 

[Glaucon]

The problem is the increasing demand to make games larger, isn't it? Larger in the sense of larger maps, fewer loading screens, more content, fully open-world if possible. And all this content has to be made, but somehow it isnt affordable to make it all by hand. It needs to be randomized and, if possible, gameplay needs to be put in the hands of the player. Or, the player needs to be given a playground in which he can create gameplay--rather than the developer creating gameplay around which the player roleplays.

 

[Zombra]

Infinitron , you should've been able to pick your backstory in dialogue options, not in the char generation screen. Char-gen is *not* a replacement for in-narrative tools. If you want to tell a "story" with a specific character background, like in KotOR2, oh, I don't know, make it like KotOR2.

Nothing wrong with beginning the game already knowing some of a character's history. The amnesiac newborn shtick gets old.

 

[Lacrymas]

It's not ok knowing anything related to the narrative before you begin the game, that's out-of-plot information and is disconnected from it by extension. It's like reading a pamphlet to set up a book's setting. It's not about being an amnesiac, it's about the game telling you who/what you are in a logical way.

 

[Bubbles]

Lacrymas is sounding more and more like Roqua lately.

 

[aleph]

It's not ok knowing anything related to the narrative before you begin the game, that's out-of-plot information and is disconnected from it by extension. It's like reading a pamphlet to set up a book's setting. It's not about being an amnesiac, it's about the game telling you who/what you are in a logical way.

I disagree. I remember fondly the old days, when there were manuals which contained setting information, maybe even a (cloth) map and additional out-of-game documents. I really miss this stuff.

 

[Lacrymas]

Nostalgia =/= skillful presentation of the narrative. Not to mention that manuals which reveal the plot/setting were necessitated by early games because they didn't have enough space on the disc.

 

[Zombra]

It's not ok knowing anything related to the narrative before you begin the game, that's out-of-plot information and is disconnected from it by extension. It's like reading a pamphlet to set up a book's setting. It's not about being an amnesiac, it's about the game telling you who/what you are in a logical way.

By that logic, character generation shouldn't exist at all and every game should start like Skyrim. No thank you.

 

[Lacrymas]

No, because the stats of your character aren't part of the narrative, i.e. false analogy.