Divinity: Original Sin 2 Early Access Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Zombra]

So the origin stories are just another "feat" (like Black Widow in Fallout) you can choose at the start and you can sometimes use it for dialogue options?

YES.

That's it? What if I don't ever choose any of the special options? What would be the difference between the characters then? Is there a difference at all?

Then you wasted your opportunity; or more specifically, you unlocked that content and then exercised your option not to see it. (Which is perfectly fine, if that's what you want to do.) This isn't the fault of the devs; it's on you for choosing a character you didn't actually want to play. I don't make a Dwarf and then get mad when I skip the Dwarf dialogue options.

And of course characters are still different; or again to be more specific, they have different potential. If you don't want to leverage a character's full potential, some, all, or none of it, it's your choice. No point in getting angry about it, because you have no one to blame but yourself.

I'm not raging at how other people play their characters, I'm raging that I'm not given a character at all, how is that so hard to grasp?

This is the problem. You want to be given a character instead of making one and properly playing it. You disavow responsibility for participating in the story - you just want to be told.

Turns out, as a wise man said about 30 times already in this thread,
RPGs are not books or movies.

 

[Lacrymas]

All of that seems absolutely pointless to me (in the context of origin stories, not in general), with no structure or meaning. That is not what either role-playing or writing is, it's masturbation.

 

[Lucky]

So the origin stories are just another "feat" (like Black Widow in Fallout) you can choose at the start and you can sometimes use it for dialogue options? That's it? What if I don't ever choose any of the special options? What would be the difference between the characters then? Is there a difference at all? What happens when you realize this and every playthrough is essentially the same?

I'm not raging at how other people play their characters, I'm raging that I'm not given a character at all, how is that so hard to grasp? Every one of them is a blank slate with an additional dialogue option popping here and there, which just seems to replace feats/skills from others games.

If you don't use their background options and consistently maintain this then you could play it as if that character pushed aside their past and started on a clean slate, which would make for a different character compared to if you were to play a regular character who makes the exact same choices. You don't need to, but it's a choice you can make and how you can use that origin as building piece even if you're never going to use the choices it offers.

As for the latter, that's the whole point of being both part of the audience and a participant. You can't just experience the character, you need to form it and make decisions about who they are and how they act. Making these decisions and having them play out is a fun, creative process.

EDIT:

All of that seems absolutely pointless to me (in the context of origin stories, not in general), with no structure or meaning. That is not what either role-playing or writing is, it's masturbation.

Out of curiosity, have you ever done theater?

 

[Lacrymas]

Yes, actually. Why?

 

[Zombra]

All of that seems absolutely pointless to me (in the context of origin stories, not in general), with no structure or meaning. That is not what writing is, it's masturbation.

Why not in general? If you hate the origin options, you should hate tagged dialogue options in general.

It's bizarre to me that you dislike the origin options more, as they can give a character more structure than a typical "blank slate" PC, when you are all about structure and rigidity.

And all single-player games can be characterized as masturbation. If you despise the one then I don't see how you can exalt the other. Again I am moved to observe that why you play RPGs at all is a mystery.

It's OK (and not surprising) if you can't see the point. It's sufficient that there are players who do.

 

[Lucky]

Yes, actually. Why?

Then do you recognise the joy of tinkering with the roles, the stage, the scenes and the lines? That's what we're doing with a torn apart script and a massive stage that you don't understand yet. It's similar, yet completely different and that's what makes it interesting.

 

[Lacrymas]

Zombra, because in general it is I who create the character, I don't have a character created for me, which the origin stories do. When I have a predefined character I want to see that character go somewhere and affect the plot. That is the main reason you have characters in the first place, to see how exactly their personalities and choices affect the narrative and how they change during that time. When there is no personality apart from dialogue tags it's just cheap and smells amateurish instead of liberating. Blank slate characters are exempt from this, because that's what they are - blank slates.

Lucky, tinkering with roles, stages, scenes and the lines can not change the way the plot unfolds and can not change the fundamental roles of the characters in that plot, if they do then it's no longer the same piece. Improvisation is also not what art is, art is organized and structured, it's logical and focused. If it's not that then it's a string of ideas without any coherency or thought, making it pointless.

 

[Lucky]

Zombra, because in general it is I who create the character, I don't have a character created for me, which the origin stories do. When I have a predefined character I want to see that character go somewhere and affect the plot. That is the main reason you have characters in the first place, to see how exactly their personalities and choices affect the narrative and how they change during that time. When there is no personality apart from dialogue tags it's just cheap and smells amateurish instead of liberating. Blank slate characters are exempt from this, because that's what they are - blank slates.

Lucky, tinkering with roles, stages, scenes and the lines can not change the way the plot unfolds and can not change the fundamental roles of the characters in that plot, if they do then it's no longer the same piece.

Sure you can, the play is your toybox and messing around with it is a time honoured tradition. You don't need to use everything that is in it or even in the way that it's labelled. Change a scene, switch a line, remove a character and so on. The same applies here. The game provides the tools, but you don't need to use all of them or even in the way it suggests you use them. Do you not enjoy this?

 

[Zombra]

Zombra, because in general it is I who create the character, I don't have a character created for me, which the origin stories do.

No, they don't. Stop thinking that way and all your problems will be solved. It's still your character, just a character with a specific backstory and new dialogue options. If you don't like that backstory of course, don't choose that option. And if you don't like a dialogue option for your character, don't choose that either. It's really really easy.

 

[Lacrymas]

Lucky, that would ruin the entire piece! What kind of plays are those where you can remove characters and the plot still makes sense? I do enjoy role-playing, but only when there's something meaningful behind it. If it's just there for me to choose nonsensical dialogue options that don't affect anything and some head-canon, I'd rather write a book instead.

Zombra, then why do I choose that backstory in char-gen? Why can't I choose it in dialogue options within the game itself? Even PoE had the option of telling what's-her-face what your backstory is, not that anything came out of it. I suspect nothing will come out of the origin stories as well, apart from Chris' one.

 

[Zombra]

Zombra, then why do I choose that backstory in char-gen? Why can't I choose it in dialogue options within the game itself?

Uh ... because the devs chose to front-load it as part of char-gen. Lots of games let you pick a background during char-gen (and as I've argued, picking any stats or skills during chargen already contributes to a personality and background). Speaking for myself, I think this is the far better option. As we've discussed, I am not a fan of the Skyrim (or POE) "WHO ARE YOU" beginning - I would much rather start the game with a character instead of a cipher. Remember - an RPG is not a book. Knowing who the character is before the game starts gives me a much better handle on playing him properly from the word go, and ensures I am immediately invested. YMMV.

 

[SniperHF]

Well the origins have specific side quests and parallel content that accompanies the main story. You can ignore them or tell them to fuck off but it's there.

 

[Lacrymas]

Zombra, I get where we diverge now. I want the origin stories to be more fundamentally meaningful, while you are fine with them being almost trivial. I suppose that's a problem only I have and nobody else.

 

[Zombra]

Zombra, I get where we diverge now. I want the origin stories to be more fundamentally meaningful, while you are fine with them being almost trivial.

Close. I understand that there is more to a spectrum than two end points. But close enough.

 

[Lucky]

Lucky, that would ruin the entire piece! What kind of plays are those where you can remove characters and the plot still makes sense? I do enjoy role-playing, but only when there's something meaningful behind it. If it's just there for me to choose nonsensical dialogue options that don't affect anything and some head-canon, I'd rather write a book instead.

Zombra, then why do I choose that backstory in char-gen? Why can't I choose it in dialogue options within the game itself? Even PoE had the option of telling what's-her-face what your backstory is, not that anything came out of it. I suspect nothing will come out of the origin stories as well, apart from Chris' one.

I guess that a no? It's really not all that weird, just recently I saw a bunch of different performances of Faustus that all messed around tons with the text. It's fine if you have don't like it that way, I only think it's a shame to miss out on something like this because of that.

Zombra, I get where we diverge now. I want the origin stories to be more fundamentally meaningful, while you are fine with them being almost trivial. I suppose that's a problem only I have and nobody else.

I'd say 'potentially trivial' would reflect the choice aspect better, but that's close enough.

 

[Efe]

Yes, I'll help
Yes, I'll help but tell me more
What is the reward, I'll help
No, I'll help.

holy shit. he wants another fallout?!

 

[Bubbles]

Torment 2:

74,405 backers
28,205 Steam owners

Original Sin 2:

42,713 backers
41,895 Steam owners

Hm.

Update:

Torment 2:

74,405 backers
28,800 Steam owners

Original Sin 2:

42,713 backers
59,585 Steam owners

People must really have a low opinion of D:OS 2's writing if they're willing to buy so many copies during Early Access.

 

[Seethe]

I am pondering upon refunding this after finding out that the third person text is not placehorder text.

 

[Fry]

Who knows, it might change. But no harm in refunding and waiting for release.

 

[Efe]

is it player character talking in 3rd person?

 

[Seethe]

is it player character talking in 3rd person?

It's more like terrible roleplay text you find on roleplaying iRC channels. Instead of your character saying "Meet your end, troublemaker", you get an *unsheathes katana, save m'lady* option to choose instead.

 

[Efe]

larian isnt known for its storytelling anyway. are meanings not clear or do you get surprise outcomes? whats causing this reaction in you

 

[Seethe]

It's not about how good it is, it's the way it's presented. It sucks, and it's frustrating to process. I don't feel like I'm playing my character.

 

[imweasel]

I am pondering upon refunding this after finding out that the third person text is not placehorder text.

You probably should if you don't like it. Swen is reluctant to change it because he thinks (hopes) that only a vocal minority hate it. Read the last interview.

larian isnt known for its storytelling anyway.

It isn't the writing of the player dialog but the style in which it is presented. To me it feels like I am just pulling the strings on a marionette instead of actually assuming a role.

No idea why Swen thinks it was a good idea to choose a style of writing that has been avoided by other developers for blatantly obvious reasons. I am starting to question his judgement, because even the new stat system isn't very hot either (streamlining, overbalancing/normalizing and removal of saving throws).

 

[Lacrymas]

I theorized that they did it because of the origin stories, i.e. they hyped up the origin stories, but didn't want to create custom dialogues for each one, so they wrote them in indirect speech to force you to characterize them and imagine what they are *actually* saying. I can't think of any other reason because it's obvious why it's kind of a bad idea on its own.