Game News Divinity: Original Sin Kickstarter Update #66: Hardcore Mode Overview

[Gregz]

It is more than a little disturbing seeing fundamental elements, like story, being altered after release.

This kind of thing never used to happen. Once the master disk was pressed, that was the game. Sure there were bug patches, but the content was largely untouched.

If you love a particular book, would you want the author to refine it because it was successful? I'm not saying the story in D:OS was its strongest point, it wasn't, but anything can be made worse far more easily than made better.

Lucas did this with the original Star Wars Trilogy and it was a complete disaster.

There was a time when George Lucas could do no wrong (barring the holiday special), now he can't do a single thing right...so how can we trust the original artist? Sometimes everything just 'clicks' and a masterpiece is born. The designers shouldn't take full credit for that. There's a lot of luck involved. I hope this kind of version alteration doesn't lead us down the wrong path...ultimately it should be the community who decides which version of the game is best, and all versions should be available for purchase. Even that solution leads to compatibility debacles and incongruity issues however.

There's a disconcerting element to all of this...gameplay shifting under our feet from one version to the next...for instance I enjoyed being able to power play and buy skill books every level, so now I have two separate versions of D:OS. One that is current, and one that allows me to purchase skill books on level up (which has since been patched out of the game).

Kickstarter has solved many problems, but seems to have introduced others...how awful would it be to see Bloodlines rewritten by CCP Games, and then have the CCP version permanently replace Troika's version on Steam, GoG and all other outlets? The games we love and treasure could hypothetically be lost forever, a casualty of IP laws. No more annual replays of our beloved classics. Great games erased from history, or bastardized into some watered down abomination.

This is exactly what George Lucas did, and it was criminal. It is now impossible to purchase a stand-alone copy of the theatrical versions of Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, or Return of the Jedi. Will this happen to the kinds of classic games that are born from crowdfunding? All of this worries me quite a bit...

 

[Sranchammer]

They basically confirmed the game sucked

 

[Perkel]

Yeah this looks like EE edition by CDPR just more fun to play

Larian did it first.

http://www.larian.com/dragonknightsaga.php

You forgot that EE edition first came for TW1 which was released in 2007 and then EE like year after it.

 

[Perkel]

It is more than a little disturbing seeing fundamental elements, like story, being altered after release.

This kind of thing never used to happen. Once the master disk was pressed, that was the game. Sure there were bug patches, but the content was largely untouched.

If story was great in first place then yes it would be disturbing.

But they didn't show how they will change it. I saw there intro like animation creation so i guess it will have nice little animation like intro after each chapter to bang people over their head with story, rework of companions dialogs which now should talk with each other more than few lines. I guess additional quests here and there. + General rewrite of shitty parts.

It's amazing how lack of VA allows you to do it without problems.

 

[Infinitron]

There's a disconcerting element to all of this...gameplay shifting under our feet from one version to the next...for instance I enjoyed being able to power play and buy skill books every level, so now I have two separate versions of D:OS. One that is current, and one that allows me to purchase skill books on level up (which has since been patched out of the game).

Kickstarter has solved many problems, but seems to have introduced others...how awful would it be to see Bloodlines rewritten by CCP Games, and then have the CCP version permanently replace Troika's version on Steam, GoG and all other outlets? The games we love and treasure could hypothetically be lost forever, a casualty of IP laws. No more annual replays of our beloved classics. Great games erased from history, or bastardized into some watered down abomination.

I don't see what Kickstarter has to do with this? It's digital distribution that enabled this and it was inevitable.

In any case, you're being hysterical. Lucas updated his movies over 15 years after he released them. This Hardcore Mode/Enhanced Edition is being done by the same team that never stopped working on D:OS.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Although the update seems at first to be mostly about the game's recent rewards

Awards, innit?

 

[Roguey]

There's a disconcerting element to all of this...gameplay shifting under our feet from one version to the next...for instance I enjoyed being able to power play and buy skill books every level, so now I have two separate versions of D:OS. One that is current, and one that allows me to purchase skill books on level up (which has since been patched out of the game).

Kickstarter has solved many problems, but seems to have introduced others...how awful would it be to see Bloodlines rewritten by CCP Games, and then have the CCP version permanently replace Troika's version on Steam, GoG and all other outlets? The games we love and treasure could hypothetically be lost forever, a casualty of IP laws. No more annual replays of our beloved classics. Great games erased from history, or bastardized into some watered down abomination.

I don't see what Kickstarter has to do with this? It's digital distribution that enabled this and it was inevitable.

In any case, you're being hysterical. Lucas updated his movies over 15 years after he released them. This Hardcore Mode/Enhanced Edition is being done by the same team that never stopped working on D:OS.

Reminder that CD Projekt's Witcher:EE boasted about "more than 5000 lines of dialogue re-written and re-recorded in English" "completely re-recorded German voice-over" "more than 200 new animations to improve quality of dialogue scenes" "greater variety of non-player characters" "streamlined inventory with new bag for alchemical ingredients" "auto-looting" and so on. There's no one who prefers the original over EE.

 

[GloomFrost]

The devs are giving you extra dialogues, quests, performance improvements, ets for FREE in the age of countless DLCs and season passes and yet people still complain about something lol.

 

[NotAGolfer]

He's not complaining, he's disturbed...
Or something.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Lucas did this with the original Star Wars Trilogy and it was a complete disaster.

There was a time when George Lucas could do no wrong (barring the holiday special)

Honestly I don't think there ever was a time when Lucas could do no wrong.
In fact even in the original trilogy most of what doesn't suck is probably the achievement of someone else, according to some horror stories from the sets. It's quite telling how even the best movie of the original trilogy wasn't directed by him.

 

[himmy]

.so how can we trust the original artist? Sometimes everything just 'clicks' and a masterpiece is born. The designers shouldn't take full credit for that. There's a lot of luck involved. I hope this kind of version alteration doesn't lead us down the wrong path...ultimately it should be the community who decides which version of the game is best, and all versions should be available for purchase. Even that solution leads to compatibility debacles and incongruity issues however.

ITT: Barthesian analysis of the death of the author.

 

[Tigranes]

.so how can we trust the original artist? Sometimes everything just 'clicks' and a masterpiece is born. The designers shouldn't take full credit for that. There's a lot of luck involved. I hope this kind of version alteration doesn't lead us down the wrong path...ultimately it should be the community who decides which version of the game is best, and all versions should be available for purchase. Even that solution leads to compatibility debacles and incongruity issues however.

ITT: Barthesian analysis of the death of the author.

RPG Codex, at the forefront of 50 year old theoretical advancements.

 

[Gregz]

Lucas did this with the original Star Wars Trilogy and it was a complete disaster.

There was a time when George Lucas could do no wrong (barring the holiday special)

Honestly I don't think there ever was a time when Lucas could do no wrong.
In fact even in the original trilogy most of what doesn't suck is probably the achievement of someone else, according to some horror stories from the sets. It's quite telling how even the best movie of the original trilogy wasn't directed by him.

I don't doubt it, in fact if you're right, it only strengthens my point that whatever makes something work usually doesn't get the credit, or the IP rights, for the product.

The devs are giving you extra dialogues, quests, performance improvements, ets for FREE in the age of countless DLCs and season passes and yet people still complain about something lol.

And that's great, really, but if it's permanently "sewn into" the product, and certain features end up making the game worse, how is a player supposed to revert to the version they fell in love with?

This was one of the benefits of traditional DLCs, you could uninstall them if you didn't like them.

Steam auto-patching takes all of this control away from the player and places it solely in the hands of the game distributor. You may wake up one morning and find your quirky party build has just been nerfed into the ground.

This Hardcore Mode/Enhanced Edition is being done by the same team that never stopped working on D:OS.

The Hardcore mode isn't the problem, it's great they are doing that. It's a feature that can be enabled or disabled on character creation or perhaps mid-game. Altering major story and game play elements is the potential problem. This is a game I had planned on replaying in a few months, from the looks of it I'll be playing a different game. Maybe it will be better, but maybe it won't. If it isn't, I won't have the ability to go back and play, what I may consider to be, the superior original. As you said digital distribution makes all of this easier to do, but that doesn't mean it's neccesarily the right thing to do.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Dammit, another reason to start over.
I don't think I'll ever finish this game.

 

[Achiman]

I will personally kickstart for Sven to get a pair of normal jeans. Skinny jeans on guys is this generations version of 80's rock hair. Ugh. Apart from that good to see they are adding more to the game. Walking the talk as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Infinitron]

This Hardcore Mode/Enhanced Edition is being done by the same team that never stopped working on D:OS.

The Hardcore mode isn't the problem, it's great they are doing that. It's a feature that can be enabled or disabled on character creation or perhaps mid-game. Altering major story and game play elements is the potential problem. This is a game I had planned on replaying in a few months, from the looks of it I'll be playing a different game. Maybe it will be better, but maybe it won't. If it isn't, I won't have the ability to go back and play, what I may consider to be, the superior original. As you said digital distribution makes all of this easier to do, but that doesn't mean it's neccesarily the right thing to do.

Way to dodge my point.

Yes, it's a different game, because the game's development never stopped. This is not a case of somebody with no clue revisiting something a decade later and fucking it up. You might as well complain that the game changed between Early Access and final release.

Anyway, what Roguey said.

 

[GloomFrost]

Lucas did this with the original Star Wars Trilogy and it was a complete disaster.

There was a time when George Lucas could do no wrong (barring the holiday special)

Honestly I don't think there ever was a time when Lucas could do no wrong.
In fact even in the original trilogy most of what doesn't suck is probably the achievement of someone else, according to some horror stories from the sets. It's quite telling how even the best movie of the original trilogy wasn't directed by him.

I don't doubt it, in fact if you're right, it only strengthens my point that whatever makes something work usually doesn't get the credit, or the IP rights, for the product.

The devs are giving you extra dialogues, quests, performance improvements, ets for FREE in the age of countless DLCs and season passes and yet people still complain about something lol.

And that's great, really, but if it's permanently "sewn into" the product, and certain features end up making the game worse, how is a player supposed to revert to the version they fell in love with?

This was one of the benefits of traditional DLCs, you could uninstall them if you didn't like them.

Steam auto-patching takes all of this control away from the player and places it solely in the hands of the game distributor. You may wake up one morning and find your quirky party build has just been nerfed into the ground.

This Hardcore Mode/Enhanced Edition is being done by the same team that never stopped working on D:OS.

The Hardcore mode isn't the problem, it's great they are doing that. It's a feature that can be enabled or disabled on character creation or perhaps mid-game. Altering major story and game play elements is the potential problem. This is a game I had planned on replaying in a few months, from the looks of it I'll be playing a different game. Maybe it will be better, but maybe it won't. If it isn't, I won't have the ability to go back and play, what I may consider to be, the superior original. As you said digital distribution makes all of this easier to do, but that doesn't mean it's neccesarily the right thing to do.

Actually I see your point cos it already happened with the original sin. Patch number 2 or 3 made some significant changes in balance and the way some perks work which made certain builds absolutely unplayable. There was a shit storm on forums, people spent like 60 hours playing and couldn't finish the game coz of it.
As for not having control over steam well that is another matter all together. I v always been saying that DRM is pure evil, simple as. Thatcher I always try to buy games on GOG if possible. But it is not Larian or kickstarter s fault.
Btw you can actually disable auto patching on steam lol.

 

[Gregz]

Way to dodge my point.

Yes, it's a different game, because the game's development never stopped. This is not a case of somebody with no clue revisiting something a decade later and fucking it up. You might as well complain that the game changed between Early Access and final release.

Anyway, what Roguey said.

Not really here to argue or anything, but I do think my concerns are valid. Roguey is right, there are cases where it works, but I believe they are in the minority. Bug fixes, performance enhancements, hardcore mode, multi-core support, dividing the client/server, Linux support. All of this stuff is great and I have no reservations whatsoever, Larian is doing good work with that.

It's the very vocal lunatic fringe on the forums that worries me...who knows what they may convince developers to adopt or abandon? Changing the story? Dramatically altering the gameplay mechanics across several years? A slippery slope. Imo that stuff should be kept inside the modding community. Design by committee has been shown time and again to be a recipe for disaster.

 

[IDtenT]

The most enjoyable part of CKII, and what has made me play 100s of hours of it, is that every few months the mechanics change. This is to be celebrated.

However, I agree that earlier versions should be accessible in some way.

 

[Roguey]

Maybe it will be better, but maybe it won't. If it isn't, I won't have the ability to go back and play, what I may consider to be, the superior original. As you said digital distribution makes all of this easier to do, but that doesn't mean it's neccesarily the right thing to do.

Make a backup copy now then. You don't need to open Steam to play it.

 

[Gregz]

Maybe it will be better, but maybe it won't. If it isn't, I won't have the ability to go back and play, what I may consider to be, the superior original. As you said digital distribution makes all of this easier to do, but that doesn't mean it's neccesarily the right thing to do.

Make a backup copy now then. You don't need to open Steam to play it.

Well, in fact I already have, and it looks like I may need to do it a 3rd time. But, are we really living in a world were we need to read patch notes first, and then back up our existing version if, on balance, we don't think the changes make for a net improvement? I can imagine accumulating 6 versions of D:OS or WL2...strange times.

 

[Roguey]

Well, in fact I already have, and it looks like I may need to do it a 3rd time. But, are we really living in a world were we need to read patch notes first, and then back up our existing version if, on balance, we don't think the changes make for a net improvement? I can imagine accumulating 6 versions of D:OS or WL2...strange times.

With Steam patching, yes.

Just delete old ones if a newer version is good enough.

 

[himmy]

Well, in fact I already have, and it looks like I may need to do it a 3rd time. But, are we really living in a world were we need to read patch notes first, and then back up our existing version if, on balance, we don't think the changes make for a net improvement? I can imagine accumulating 6 versions of D:OS or WL2...strange times.

ITT: Stockpiling vanilla becomes a thing.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

The devs are giving you extra dialogues, quests, performance improvements, ets for FREE in the age of countless DLCs and season passes and yet people still complain about something lol.

It's not "free" though. You have to buy the game. The game the devs are basically saying is shite and which multiple people in this thread have just declared is not worth playing until it gets patched:

I am guessing so. My friend and I were playing through and once we heard they were working on a hard mode, we scrapped the game and moved to something else to wait for it. Starting over will be exciting if it is as involved of a re-balancing as they mention.

So when we gonna get this revamped everything? I just started the game over again hoping to finish it this time, but now I'm just going to have to hold off again and wait. Especially if they spruce up the writing some. I just don't want to wait more than a month or two--I am impatient as fuck.

EDIT Srsly tho, Larian are kings among men.

Dang, right when I was going to start a first playthrough (I pre-ordered it), they announce an "enhanced edition" of sorts. I guess I will wait a few months.

Same here...

Dammit, another reason to start over.
I don't think I'll ever finish this game.

That's five people basically declaring that the game as it stands now, is not worth playing.

Yes, it's a different game, because the game's development never stopped. This is not a case of somebody with no clue revisiting something a decade later and fucking it up. You might as well complain that the game changed between Early Access and final release.

No, it's a case of somebody who originally had no clue and fucked it up in the first place promising to get a clue and fix the cluelessness that they put into the original.

And this is for a game that some people have declared has an uninteresting setting that Larian should abandon.

So in a sense it's much, much worse.

And what happens if this patch doesn't fix something or only introduces more mistakes / errors / problems?

Do we wait for the next one?

 

[Infinitron]

That's five people basically declaring that the game as it stands now, is not worth playing.

at the revisionism in this thread.

Meanwhile, in the real world, D:OS is going to take the RPG Codex GOTY award without breaking a sweat. No Hardcore Mode necessary.