Game News Divinity: Original Sin Kickstarter Update #66: Hardcore Mode Overview

[GloomFrost]

The devs are giving you extra dialogues, quests, performance improvements, ets for FREE in the age of countless DLCs and season passes and yet people still complain about something lol.

It's not "free" though. You have to buy the game. The game the devs are basically saying is shite and which multiple people in this thread have just declared is not worth playing until it gets patched:

I am guessing so. My friend and I were playing through and once we heard they were working on a hard mode, we scrapped the game and moved to something else to wait for it. Starting over will be exciting if it is as involved of a re-balancing as they mention.

So when we gonna get this revamped everything? I just started the game over again hoping to finish it this time, but now I'm just going to have to hold off again and wait. Especially if they spruce up the writing some. I just don't want to wait more than a month or two--I am impatient as fuck.

EDIT Srsly tho, Larian are kings among men.

Dang, right when I was going to start a first playthrough (I pre-ordered it), they announce an "enhanced edition" of sorts. I guess I will wait a few months.

Same here...

Dammit, another reason to start over.
I don't think I'll ever finish this game.

That's five people basically declaring that the game as it stands now, is not worth playing.

Yes, it's a different game, because the game's development never stopped. This is not a case of somebody with no clue revisiting something a decade later and fucking it up. You might as well complain that the game changed between Early Access and final release.

No, it's a case of somebody who originally had no clue and fucked it up in the first place promising to get a clue and fix the cluelessness that they put into the original.

And this is for a game that some people have declared has an uninteresting setting that Larian should abandon.

So in a sense it's much, much worse.

And what happens if this patch doesn't fix something or only introduces more mistakes / errors / problems?

Do we wait for the next one?

Well first of all even without this hardcore mode the game isn't shite, far from it. And second of all it came out ages ago, there was plenty of time to complete it at least once. People who want to play it again will get a completely different experience with a lot of new content, new comers will just get a polished and balanced game. Both witchers have enhanced editions, shadowrun dragonfall has a director's cut, deus ex hr has a director's cut, the list goes on. I just think people are slightly overreacting.

 

[Roguey]

Meanwhile, in the real world, D:OS is going to take the RPG Codex GOTY award without breaking a sweat. No Hardcore Mode necessary.

So did The Witcher (twice!), Dragon Age: Origins, and pre-EE Witcher 2.

 

[Zed]

Meanwhile, in the real world, D:OS is going to take the RPG Codex GOTY award without breaking a sweat. No Hardcore Mode necessary.

So did The Witcher (twice!), Dragon Age: Origins, and pre-EE Witcher 2.

at that time it was like winning the special olympics

 

[Roguey]

at that time it was like winning the special olympics

Pre-EE Witcher was released the same year as Mask of the Betrayer, DA:O was released the same year as that combat sim KotC.

 

[Zed]

at that time it was like winning the special olympics

Pre-EE Witcher was released the same year as Mask of the Betrayer, DA:O was released the same year as that combat sim KotC.

KotC is pretty niche even among the peeps at rpg codex, and MotB, while of course much better than the Shitcher, is still just an expansion pack, and an expansion pack to a pretty weak base game. MotB didn't really enjoy popularity until some time later.

Regardless, do you have links to said articles appointing these GOTYs?

 

[himmy]

The game the devs are basically saying is shite

It's these sort of reactions that make modesty a rare sight in the industry and turn every press release into violent autofellatio.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Well first of all even without this hardcore mode the game isn't shite, far from it. And second of all it came out ages ago, there was plenty of time to complete it at least once.

And yet 4 of the 5 people I quoted specifically stated that they haven't finished it. With two who haven't even started. If the game is worth playing GOTY A++, how come so many people haven't even finished playing it? And in fact willingly stop the minute an announcement like this is made.

People who want to play it again will get a completely different experience with a lot of new content, new comers will just get a polished and balanced game.

But isn't that the problem? You've just said it'll be two completely different experiences. Yet the second will replace the first. So is the first experience "worth it" or not? And if it's worth it, why the need to over-write it with something "completely different"?

Both witchers have enhanced editions, shadowrun dragonfall has a director's cut, deus ex hr has a director's cut, the list goes on. I just think people are slightly overreacting.

Yep. And would I play any of the original versions of those?

tl;dr: Why should I ever buy a game on release if the entire experience is going to be completely different (and ostensibly, "better") later, after it's been patched?

 

[Davaris]

Well first of all even without this hardcore mode the game isn't shite, far from it. And second of all it came out ages ago, there was plenty of time to complete it at least once.

And yet 4 of the 5 people I quoted specifically stated that they haven't finished it. With two who haven't even started. If the game is worth playing GOTY A++, how come so many people haven't even finished playing it? And in fact willingly stop the minute an announcement like this is made.

You can have too much of a good thing is something many developers do not understand.

 

[Invictus]

This is exactly what I was looking forward when they anounced the new games based on the engine; more optmimizations to make the game run on consolas and reworking game systems and encounters sounds like a good way to polish their skills with the current engine to come up with better content

 

[Roguey]

Regardless, do you have links to said articles appointing these GOTYs?

There were polls and I'm going by memory, since the move to xenforo wiped out all the results.

Both witchers have enhanced editions, shadowrun dragonfall has a director's cut, deus ex hr has a director's cut, the list goes on. I just think people are slightly overreacting.

Yep. And would I play any of the original versions of those?

tl;dr: Why should I ever buy a game on release if the entire experience is going to be completely different (and ostensibly, "better") later, after it's been patched?

Some might actually prefer the original version of DX:HR with all the DLC because the director's cut adds all kinds of bugs and glitches in exchange for better bosses and toned-down yellow filter. I don't regret my purchase of the original minus DLC since I don't care that much.

 

[GloomFrost]

Well first of all even without this hardcore mode the game isn't shite, far from it. And second of all it came out ages ago, there was plenty of time to complete it at least once.

And yet 4 of the 5 people I quoted specifically stated that they haven't finished it. With two who haven't even started. If the game is worth playing GOTY A++, how come so many people haven't even finished playing it? And in fact willingly stop the minute an announcement like this is made.

People who want to play it again will get a completely different experience with a lot of new content, new comers will just get a polished and balanced game.

But isn't that the problem? You've just said it'll be two completely different experiences. Yet the second will replace the first. So is the first experience "worth it" or not? And if it's worth it, why the need to over-write it with something "completely different"?

Both witchers have enhanced editions, shadowrun dragonfall has a director's cut, deus ex hr has a director's cut, the list goes on. I just think people are slightly overreacting.

Yep. And would I play any of the original versions of those?

tl;dr: Why should I ever buy a game on release if the entire experience is going to be completely different (and ostensibly, "better") later, after it's been patched?

I never said that the original sin is AAA goty, it does have a lot of serious problems. I just said that it is not complete shit and more then playable and enjoyable atm as it is. It is up to everyone individually whether to play it now or wait for the next patch. If those 5 other people would rather wait, then it is up to them. But I am sure that a lot more then 5 people even on this thread have completed it. Also big games like that will ALWAYS be glitchy at the beginning, they will ALWAYS be unbalanced, nothing can change that. For example have you heard about the KILLAP RESTOTATION PROJECT for fallout 2. The latest version of it came out like a year ago while the game itself came out in 1998!!!
And yeah NO ONE forces you to buy games the day they are released btw. A lot of people wait for months for a game to be properly patched, especially rpgs.

 

[Xenich]

I am guessing so. My friend and I were playing through and once we heard they were working on a hard mode, we scrapped the game and moved to something else to wait for it. Starting over will be exciting if it is as involved of a re-balancing as they mention.

That's five people basically declaring that the game as it stands now, is not worth playing.

That is not what I was saying. The game IS worth playing, the game is a very good game. It has its problems, but it is a solid game right now. I am not the type of gamer that plays games over and over. Once I play through a game, it is very rare that I play through it again. So, it goes without saying that if they have a large amount of changes planned for the game as well as an increased difficultly, then it is certainly worth waiting for. Taking that to mean that we think the game is "not worth playing" is really stretching to support your point.

 

[Xenich]

Some might actually prefer the original version of DX:HR with all the DLC because the director's cut adds all kinds of bugs and glitches in exchange for better bosses and toned-down yellow filter. I don't regret my purchase of the original minus DLC since I don't care that much.

Bad example, the Director's Cut of that game is an example of sloppy addition and packaging specifically to market off the fad of "enhanced editions". This kind of gimmick is found all over the movie industry with their crap packaging of "director cut" movies. To imply that Larian is doing similar is blindly grasping at anything to make ones point seem valid.

 

[Xenich]

This is exactly what I was looking forward when they anounced the new games based on the engine; more optmimizations to make the game run on consolas and reworking game systems and encounters sounds like a good way to polish their skills with the current engine to come up with better content

I really don't want to see them run it on consoles. It almost always ends up with the company using the fucking tardsole as a template for the games design and limitations. So I am extremely leery of them paying any attention to the console market. Besides, nothing good for the game can come from catering to consoles. The current consoles are outdated hardware and attempting to attend to them will essentially tie the hands of improvements to the engine. It is going backwards.

That said, focusing on a released engine for polish and feature addition is EXACTLY what gaming companies should be doing. They should go back to the old expansion model. Not only does this allow them to tune the engine and press it to the limits of its abilities, but each game made with an already existing engine means all of the time spent is on content/polish, not bugs and the like. This means much bigger games, much more detail and attention to the content within the games. That is how you bring back the games of old. This current model of making an entirely new engine each time is pure idiocy. It is chasing the moronic fad market and it is the death of gaming.

 

[Athelas]

I really don't want to see them run it on consoles. It almost always ends up with the company using the fucking tardsole as a template for the games design and limitations. So I am extremely leery of them paying any attention to the console market. Besides, nothing good for the game can come from catering to consoles. The current consoles are outdated hardware and attempting to attend to them will essentially tie the hands of improvements to the engine. It is going backwards.

That said, focusing on a released engine for polish and feature addition is EXACTLY what gaming companies should be doing. They should go back to the old expansion model. Not only does this allow them to tune the engine and press it to the limits of its abilities, but each game made with an already existing engine means all of the time spent is on content/polish, not bugs and the like. This means much bigger games, much more detail and attention to the content within the games. That is how you bring back the games of old. This current model of making an entirely new engine each time is pure idiocy. It is chasing the moronic fad market and it is the death of gaming.

I'm not sure that's an accurate explanation of the Decline. For instance, Bioware and Bethesda have essentially been making the same game for 10+ years, using the same engine (the only exception being DA:I switching to Frostbite).

 

[Xenich]

I really don't want to see them run it on consoles. It almost always ends up with the company using the fucking tardsole as a template for the games design and limitations. So I am extremely leery of them paying any attention to the console market. Besides, nothing good for the game can come from catering to consoles. The current consoles are outdated hardware and attempting to attend to them will essentially tie the hands of improvements to the engine. It is going backwards.

That said, focusing on a released engine for polish and feature addition is EXACTLY what gaming companies should be doing. They should go back to the old expansion model. Not only does this allow them to tune the engine and press it to the limits of its abilities, but each game made with an already existing engine means all of the time spent is on content/polish, not bugs and the like. This means much bigger games, much more detail and attention to the content within the games. That is how you bring back the games of old. This current model of making an entirely new engine each time is pure idiocy. It is chasing the moronic fad market and it is the death of gaming.

I'm not sure that's an accurate explanation of the Decline. For instance, Bioware and Bethesda have essentially been making the same game for 10+ years, using the same engine (the only exception being DA:I switching to Frostbite).

Those aren't gaming companies, they are entertainment studios creating and pushing hype on the markets. Calling them game designers would be like calling a boy band musicians.

 

[shadow9d9]

Well first of all even without this hardcore mode the game isn't shite, far from it. And second of all it came out ages ago, there was plenty of time to complete it at least once.

And yet 4 of the 5 people I quoted specifically stated that they haven't finished it. With two who haven't even started. If the game is worth playing GOTY A++, how come so many people haven't even finished playing it? And in fact willingly stop the minute an announcement like this is made.

People who want to play it again will get a completely different experience with a lot of new content, new comers will just get a polished and balanced game.

But isn't that the problem? You've just said it'll be two completely different experiences. Yet the second will replace the first. So is the first experience "worth it" or not? And if it's worth it, why the need to over-write it with something "completely different"?

Both witchers have enhanced editions, shadowrun dragonfall has a director's cut, deus ex hr has a director's cut, the list goes on. I just think people are slightly overreacting.

Yep. And would I play any of the original versions of those?

tl;dr: Why should I ever buy a game on release if the entire experience is going to be completely different (and ostensibly, "better") later, after it's been patched?

I kickstarted DOS and bought 2 copies. I still haven't started it yet. I wait for games to be fully patched before playing and I am in no rush. I haven't started W2 either, which I kickstarted, or Xenonauts, which I kickstarted.

Additionally, the people you are quoting do not mean what you claim they mean. Not even close. There is no reason not to wait until something is improved and enhanced as much as possible.

" So is the first experience "worth it" or not? And if it's worth it, why the need to over-write it with something "completely different"?"

You act as though they are mutually exclusive. Far from it. You can enjoy something, and then when new things are added, enjoy the experience with the new additions. You realize that new content could be added to something indefinitely, right? This would not be evidence of an original release being sucky in any way, shape, or form.

 

[Roguey]

Bad example, the Director's Cut of that game is an example of sloppy addition and packaging specifically to market off the fad of "enhanced editions". This kind of gimmick is found all over the movie industry with their crap packaging of "director cut" movies. To imply that Larian is doing similar is blindly grasping at anything to make ones point seem valid.

That's too harsh a comparison. They put a lot of additional work into redoing those bosses, whereas "director's cuts" are movies with deleted scenes put back in without any artistic reason for doing so. The unfortunate thing about DX:HR DC is that they used an older build for some reason and Square Enix didn't want to pay to patch issues that had already been fixed before.

 

[Xenich]

Bad example, the Director's Cut of that game is an example of sloppy addition and packaging specifically to market off the fad of "enhanced editions". This kind of gimmick is found all over the movie industry with their crap packaging of "director cut" movies. To imply that Larian is doing similar is blindly grasping at anything to make ones point seem valid.

That's too harsh a comparison. They put a lot of additional work into redoing those bosses, whereas "director's cuts" are movies with deleted scenes put back in without any artistic reason for doing so. The unfortunate thing about DX:HR DC is that they used an older build for some reason and Square Enix didn't want to pay to patch issues that had already been fixed before.

So you are saying it is the result of incompetence? That truly is a travesty. At least if it was the idiot suits marketing crap, well... that at least we can understand, but for them to be fucking incompent by repairing an old build? That has "Seriously WHAT THE FUCK YOU IDIOTS!" written all over it.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

I never said that the original sin is AAA goty, it does have a lot of serious problems. I just said that it is not complete shit and more then playable and enjoyable atm as it is. It is up to everyone individually whether to play it now or wait for the next patch. If those 5 other people would rather wait, then it is up to them. But I am sure that a lot more then 5 people even on this thread have completed it.

Well those 5 who are posting, haven't.

Also big games like that will ALWAYS be glitchy at the beginning, they will ALWAYS be unbalanced, nothing can change that. For example have you heard about the KILLAP RESTOTATION PROJECT for fallout 2. The latest version of it came out like a year ago while the game itself came out in 1998!!!

You didn't just compare actual game developers to a fan-made mod project, did you?

Incidentally, I've completed Fallout 2 several times, with multiple different play-throughs. I didn't "stop" 5 hours in and wait for the patch. That's how you can tell a game is worth playing. Because, you know, you actually play it.

And yeah NO ONE forces you to buy games the day they are released btw. A lot of people wait for months for a game to be properly patched, especially rpgs.

I'm not saying anyone is forcing me. What I'm trying to work out is: is this game worth playing? And by playing I mean finishing. From start to finish. All the way through. Not some "Oh, I only got 5 hours in and it was great and I haven't touched it since". That's not playing a game. And I don't trust reviewers who don't finish games.

Certainly not an RPG anyway. We used to hate reviewers who did that. Play 5 hours, rave about the game, completely miss that the last half was assed and full of game-breaking bugs. But AAA+ GOTY buy now 5 stars!

I kickstarted DOS and bought 2 copies. I still haven't started it yet. I wait for games to be fully patched before playing and I am in no rush. I haven't started W2 either, which I kickstarted, or Xenonauts, which I kickstarted.

So you don't know if the game is worth playing either.

That is not what I was saying. The game IS worth playing, the game is a very good game. It has its problems, but it is a solid game right now.

But you haven't played it yet, so how would you know?

I am not the type of gamer that plays games over and over. Once I play through a game, it is very rare that I play through it again. So, it goes without saying that if they have a large amount of changes planned for the game as well as an increased difficultly, then it is certainly worth waiting for. Taking that to mean that we think the game is "not worth playing" is really stretching to support your point.

Protip™: If it was worth playing, you'd be playing it.

You just said, you haven't even finished it yet. I mean, if it's worth playing, how come you haven't played it? I mean, right through to the end that is.

That's like saying this bagel I'm eating is a really sweet and awesome bagel! Totally worth eating! And then not taking another bite.

At best I could say it sounds like you're saying it's only worth playing once... and only once. And that doesn't sound like a good RPG to me.

But then again, you haven't played it, so you also wouldn't know.

 

[Rivmusique]

"director's cuts" are movies with deleted scenes put back in without any artistic reason for doing so.

 

[Haba]

RPGCodex: Trolls bitching about games they haven't played, while others are busy playing.

We had this nice thread, with people posting their impressions as they were playing the game. And you know, completing it too. But naaaah, let's take random one-liners as evidence instead.

I reckon, if you've spent 100 hours playing the game, you won't have much need to come to those threads to speculate any more.

D:OS is GOTY 2014, it was perfectly good at release. In fact, it was good enough that I am willing to do a second play-through in co-op. Can't remember the last time that happened... Fallout 2 maybe?

And said Fallout 2 also being a horribly buggy and apparently broken at release, yet I still completed it for the first time without any patches... I bet some of you are still waiting for the game to be finished before playing it, amirite?

 

[FeelTheRads]

Now, buggy is a thing. But today when games are released half-done and the rest is added through "patches" it seems like the best is to wait, no?
Sure, if the game is really good even in its released state that it might be worth re-playing that would be a point, but even then, why not play it and replay it in its finished state?

Take a look at W2 for example: right after the "totally final release honest to god" they announced they'll do big balance changes and add extra stuff to the game.

Yeah, I'm not dying to play games, I can wait. Terrible, "amirite"?

 

[Haba]

I have tons of games I am not playing because I don't feel like it. I don't however go shitting all over them on forums, when I have no fucking clue on about what kind of an experience they can deliver. And I wouldn't appreciate it if someone would for example use the fact that I haven't finished Banner Saga as evidence for that game being crap.

W2 I quit halfway through. Patches can probably help, but they won't make the core game any more fun. The same with Fallout or PST or whichever of the many many options - if you don't like the core game, chances are you won't appreciate it any more even after ten years of patching.

 

[Roguey]

blade runner pic

I put "director's cut" in quotes to try to differentiate it from actual director's cuts.

Though Josh and I both agree that making something that was implied explicit is a mistake.