Game News Divinity: Original Sin Kickstarter Update #66: Hardcore Mode Overview

[otsego]

the thing with Divinity is that they're not just patching broken shit -- they patch in new content as well.
so there's a completionist aspect to it as well, not just being afraid of bugs. it's like waiting for the LOTR extended before watching them or whatever. it's common and normal.

that said, it is probably bullshit what people are saying about playing it later. you'd play it now if you really wanted to.

Both DOS and W2 can be played right now and enjoyed immensely.

But you're right... we aren't waiting for Larian to fix their shit before giving it a go... they're actively improving their game right now to make it one that will be played annually.
Wasteland2 right now is relying on bug fixes and completion with each patch to be what it should be. Regardless it's a fantastic play and I'm very happy to have contributed so much money to its existence. The distinction is there. however.

I'm very forgiving of this "late" hardcore mode that Larian is implementing. Both companies went out on a limb and put out a product on limited funds (which were fundraised no less) and marketability. I appreciate all of the post-release shit that we're getting, even if it seems it should have been in the original release or on their plates to begin with.

 

[Xenich]

snip...

/em hands you a rock.

There, enjoy arguing with it. /shrug

 

[Morality Games]

Larian is a business and businesses like money. If they can actually successfully port this game for consoles (and given the way it plays, I don't see why not) then that opens up more markets. I hate console gaming, but more power to them if it helps them stay solvent.

... it always starts that way, and then suddenly there are a million more people complaining the console interface doesn't support such elaborate progression and combat and then ... WHAM. Everything is shit.

 

[Roguey]

What was wrong with the story in New Vegas?

I'm saying Larian's writers are amateurs because Obsidian delivered while given similar constraints.

 

[Darkzone]

I'm saying Larian's writers are amateurs because Obsidian delivered while given similar constraints.

Amateurs is such a hard word, and especially wrong in the meaning of non-professional (a person who does not make a profession out his 'hobby'). I don't know about the constraints, and certainly NV was not the best rpg story, but some of the DLC's were better.
On the other hand we shall see how the rest (beyond the first act) will be after the update.

Edit: I think that Sven should make playing PnP RPG's and being the DM or GM an obligation for the Larian writers.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I'm saying Larian's writers are amateurs because Obsidian delivered while given similar constraints.

Like that bit where you're supposed to get on with the game even if you kill everyone, because you can't kill Yes Man?

 

[Morality Games]

Like that bit where you're supposed to get on with the game even if you kill everyone, because you can't kill Yes Man?

Eh well not all games can have a bunch of stones lying around and picking them up flags the end game.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Eh well not all games can have a bunch of stones lying around and picking them up flags the end game.

True.

 

[Roguey]

Like that bit where you're supposed to get on with the game even if you kill everyone, because you can't kill Yes Man?

Yes Man's immortality makes sense given the setting. And though D:OS gives you the option to kill Arhu, he doesn't actually die considering he appears in the other games, and that also makes sense given the setting.

 

[set]

I'm saying Larian's writers are amateurs because Obsidian delivered while given similar constraints.

There's nothing spectacular about NV's story - you have an amnesiac protag who is told, "Go to new vegas!" Upon arriving in New Vegas, you can side with one of several factions after (optionally) meeting them all. You do a few missions for that faction and then the game ends in a final mission which varies based on your faction choice.

The rest of the game is not only optional, but has no bearing upon the game's outcome. Helping the Legion might block you off from a few quests, I forget, but it's not like helping the Legion suddenly makes the game different.

Because of the loose structure of the game, you're allowed to kill almost anyone. D:OS is more linear, A-to-B world design, even if there are a few forks in each road. Hence, the story can't quite be as adaptable.

D:OS is not a sandbox game, so I don't see how you can call the writers there "amateurs". Sure, not the greatest story ever, but no need to be so harsh when it's undeserved.

 

[Duellist_D]

I would have played through the game without the Hardcore mode, but now i am keeping it on hold.

Not because its a bad game, but simply because i probably don't have the time to play two times through this behemoth of an RPG.
Played through Chapter one and this already feels like a full game.

 

[Roguey]

you have an amnesiac protag

Not true.

who is told, "Go to new vegas!" Upon arriving in New Vegas, you can side with one of several factions after (optionally) meeting them all. You do a few missions for that faction and then the game ends in a final mission which varies based on your faction choice.

The rest of the game is not only optional, but has no bearing upon the game's outcome. Helping the Legion might block you off from a few quests, I forget, but it's not like helping the Legion suddenly makes the game different.

Because of the loose structure of the game, you're allowed to kill almost anyone. D:OS is more linear, A-to-B world design, even if there are a few forks in each road. Hence, the story can't quite be as adaptable.

D:OS is not a sandbox game, so I don't see how you can call the writers there "amateurs". Sure, not the greatest story ever, but no need to be so harsh when it's undeserved.

The deal with New Vegas is that its dialogue entertained me and it consistently reinforced its themes. As far as I can tell, D:OS fails with the former when it isn't trying to be funny, and doesn't even bother with the latter.

 

[set]

You get shot in the head and I think it's assumed that you have lost your memory. Certainly, your character has no actual backstory other than being a courier - which means more or less nothing as nobody seems to know you anyway. Contrast this with VTMB's protagonist, which at least includes an obligatory event with a person from your past.

Face it, NV took an easy way out of a difficult problem. Sure, the writing is overall better, but I think the writing in D:OS was serviceable and not amateurish at all. It could be greatly improved, but you're not being fair.

 

[clemens]

As far as I can tell.

As far as I can tell, Roguey has been pulling shit from its ass since 2010.

But ok, pray tell : what are Fallout:NV's themes and how are they consistently reinforced through the whole game's dialogues ?

 

[tuluse]

There's nothing spectacular about NV's story - you have an amnesiac protag who is told, "Go to new vegas!" Upon arriving in New Vegas, you can side with one of several factions after (optionally) meeting them all. You do a few missions for that faction and then the game ends in a final mission which varies based on your faction choice.

The rest of the game is not only optional, but has no bearing upon the game's outcome. Helping the Legion might block you off from a few quests, I forget, but it's not like helping the Legion suddenly makes the game different.

Because of the loose structure of the game, you're allowed to kill almost anyone. D:OS is more linear, A-to-B world design, even if there are a few forks in each road. Hence, the story can't quite be as adaptable.

D:OS is not a sandbox game, so I don't see how you can call the writers there "amateurs". Sure, not the greatest story ever, but no need to be so harsh when it's undeserved.

The Larian devs made poor design decisions and made the task harder for themselves, give them a break!

 

[set]

Do their writers get much say in the game mechanics? I don't get who's supposed to be an amateur here. You're implicitly assuming writers can deign that an NPC is "Killable" or if it's a decision made by the game designer or the programmer behind handling that logic flow. It's a team effort, so if it's anyone's fault it's the collaboration that failed. That's assuming they set out to create that kind of game, which I guess they were trying to do, but I wasn't there so it's hard to say.

The game's "constraints" probably were decided from the on-set, or they should have been. And those constraints were likely not very similar, considering NV and DOS have very little in common. Those constraints could have simply been, "Make a linear RPG with some loose freedom for story and progression." Meanwhile NV I'm sure had the following constraints, "Make a Sandbox RPG where you start at some place, wind up at New Vegas, ultimately do something at the Dam, and then whatevertheufckwhocares just make quests who cares players will figure it all out."

DOS is much more structured, so I can't believe they had the same mission goals when they started the game Roguey, I don't even know how you can arrive at a comparison between it and NV, it's not even logical. Did Larian allege they were making the latest and greatest New Vegas during the kickstarter campaign or something?

 

[tuluse]

If you want to make all NPCs killable, you should structure the game in a way to do it. Instead of just brute forcing alternate ways to get past all NPCs.

Black Isle did this twice (nearly), Troika did it, Obsidian has done it.

 

[set]

Obsidian has done it? What game?

 

[Athelas]

DOS is much more structured, so I can't believe they had the same mission goals when they started the game Roguey, I don't even know how you can arrive at a comparison between it and NV, it's not even logical. Did Larian allege they were making the latest and greatest New Vegas during the kickstarter campaign or something?

Uh, you realize you're supporting Roguey's argument now? The discussion was about quality of writing in a game with a lot of 'openness/freedom', if your argument is that D:OS is 'much more structured' than New Vegas, this would make its writing lapses even less 'forgivable'.

 

[Morality Games]

Obsidian has done it? What game?

Fallout: NV (except Yes Man).

 

[Name]

Fallout: NV (except Yes Man).

IIRC you can kill Yes Man, he'll even thank you for that. Then he simply download to another damn copy...

 

[Roguey]

You get shot in the head and I think it's assumed that you have lost your memory.

http://new.spring.me/#!/JESawyer/q/166960228892448468

Well, he's incorrect about the Courier; you absolutely do not have amnesia. There is no point at which you are unable to remember aspects of your past and, more importantly, outside of being a courier in the wrong place at the wrong time, your past is considered irrelevant to how you move forward in the story.

As far as I can tell, Roguey has been pulling shit from its ass since 2010.

But ok, pray tell : what are Fallout:NV's themes and how are they consistently reinforced through the whole game's dialogues ?

Recreating the new world in the image of the old. This is reinforced through NCR and their Republic, the Legion LARPing Romans, House's revitalized Vegas, the Kings imitating Elvis, and so on.

War never changes. Goes without saying. Every major location is touched in some way by the war.

Holding on to the past versus moving forward. Pretty much all the companion quests, many sidequests, the main conflict.

 

[Zeriel]

http://new.spring.me/#!/JESawyer/q/166960228892448468




Recreating the new world in the image of the old. This is reinforced through NCR and their Republic, the Legion LARPing Romans, House's revitalized Vegas, the Kings imitating Elvis, and so on.

War never changes. Goes without saying. Every major location is touched in some way by the war.

Holding on to the past versus moving forward. Pretty much all the companion quests, many sidequests, the main conflict.

NCR, Republic, and anything resembling US government of course makes total sense, but the Legion was one of those things that made me roll my eyes and be unable to take the entire setting seriously. Most people in the US now have no more understanding of the Romans than they do of the Illyrians or any other Classical-era people, the idea that this would be some rallying cry to base a civilization upon is pure insanity.

Josh is a history buff and he probably just wanted to throw it in there because Romans are cool and who cares, but as a goddamn history buff he really should have known better, it makes zero sense, and it's all sort of bizarre considering he applied historical perspectives and the way society evolves realistically to PoE's setting.

 

[Roguey]

NCR, Republic, and anything resembling US government of course makes total sense, but the Legion was one of those things that made me roll my eyes and be unable to take the entire setting seriously. Most people in the US now have no more understanding of the Romans than they do of the Illyrians or any other Classical-era people, the idea that this would be some rallying cry to base a civilization upon is pure insanity.

Did you read/listen to Caesar's reasoning? That was the point.

 

[clemens]

Recreating the new world in the image of the old. This is reinforced through NCR and their Republic, the Legion LARPing Romans, House's revitalized Vegas, the Kings imitating Elvis, and so on.

War never changes. Goes without saying. Every major location is touched in some way by the war.

Holding on to the past versus moving forward. Pretty much all the companion quests, many sidequests, the main conflict.

So pretty much the generic thematic stuff you would find in a post apocalyptic setting. While I also prefer F:NV's setting and encounters over D:OS, I feel Larian's writers were just as successful with their fantasy background. I don't see how they look amateurish compared to Obsidian's work with F:NV...