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Do elitist gamers have fun?

Vibalist

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Now, this is not meant as a trolling attempt on my part, but it's rather something I've thought about for a while. I reckon the following article raises some pretty good points on the issue of elitist gamers.

http://www.psxextreme.com/feature/327.html

The journalist does come across as a bit arrogant, but I can't really disagree with his main point. Is gaming really and truly worth getting worked up over? Bitching and moaning all day long about how Fallout 3 was not a true successor to Fallout 1 and 2 does seem to be more trouble than it's worth. For something that is meant to be a pastime and relaxing hobby, don't you pretty much kill whatever enjoyment you can deride from gaming by always being mad at it? I myself used to have all sorts of ideas and rules for what a good game is, to the point where I simply refused to play Mass Effect and Fallout 3 out of principle, despite not really knowing those games or giving them a fair chance. All that really changed when I put my expectations aside and took those games for what they are, namely fairly entertaining romps that certainly have a lot of good (mindless ;) ) fun to offer, even if the writing isn't good or the setting isn't consistant.

Maybe some people here could do with lowering their expectations a bit. If you find Mass Effect an unplayable mess and a bore, and simply cannot get into the story or the combat system despite trying your best, then by all means bash it and tell the world what you feel is wrong with it. But if your own pre-conceived ideas of what a good game is gets in the way of you having fun, why not put that shit aside and get some enjoyment out of your hobby instead?
 

Unkillable Cat

LEST WE FORGET
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Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
He can whine as much as he wants, it doesn't change the fact that gaming journalists need a journalist's background. They need to have integrity, a sense of neutrality and to check their facts before publishing them. Last but not least they need to be free of meddling publishers/editors that don't tell them what to write and/or say.

The gaming industry seems to be the only industry where these standards are not required nor enforced. Any one-celled organism with an opinion on games and able to write coherently is a viable candidate for a gaming journalist.

As for whether gaming is worth getting worked up over...what about the arty-farty people whom flat-out refuse to see the summer blockbusters that are released every year, because they automatically assume they're crap? What about the gigolos and bachelors that won't fuck fat and ugly chicks because...they're fat and ugly? And last, but not least, what about the religious people? Aren't they getting worked up over nothing?!?

The guy isn't being arrogant as much as he is being a hypocrite. He's just one bedsheet away from being on a disturbing YouTube video, crying his eyes out going "LEAVE GAMING JOURNALISTS ALONE!!!".
 

Vibalist

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Unkillable Cat said:
As for whether gaming is worth getting worked up over...what about the arty-farty people whom flat-out refuse to see the summer blockbusters that are released every year, because they automatically assume they're crap? What about the gigolos and bachelors that won't fuck fat and ugly chicks because...they're fat and ugly? And last, but not least, what about the religious people? Aren't they getting worked up over nothing?!?

Religion is not what I'd qualify as a hobby and thus cannot really be compared to the example I put forth. When I say getting worked up over nothing, I don't mean a religious man getting worked up during a debate on God, but rather a gamer getting worked up over something that is supposed to be fun and relaxing.
 

Gragt

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Duh. I consider myself a man of good taste and high standards, it didn't prevent me to have fun when playing mediocrities like KotOR or Jade Empire. And I find discussions about video games fun and relaxing, else why would I read them or even take part in them?
 

MLMarkland

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This part was good:

Aristotle outlined the concept of virtue vs. vice, where the vices were on either side of the virtue, which occupied the exact middle. In other words, while courage is a virtue, rashness and cowardice are its vices.

Unfortunately, he then proceeds to engage in several rhetorical and journalistic vices himself.

He engages in argumentum ad hominem ("gamers who don't have fun, "elitists irritate me," "The elitists have zero social graces - and certainly no social status to speak of", etc.).

He falls into the trap of affirming the consequent; he engages in the fallacy of composition and the fallacy of reduction; he overgeneralizes in his arguments. ("Using this formula, fanboys and elitists are the vices while only the true gamers sit firmly in the middle," etc.).

People can have high standards for movies and still enjoy great movies, games aren't any different. There's no need to lower standards for content. It's hard to have fun with bad games and the vast majority of major releases in the past two years have been atrocious.

Alternatively, we should raise standards for the discussion. There is a need to engage in more refined rhetoric and less attention-whoring and trolling, but it's the internet so that need will never be fulfilled.

Case in point being Skyway's response to this thread which engages in the same ad hominem-style attack that inspired his ire in the first place.

Until the discussion is elevated, the discussion is useless.
 

Vibalist

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MetalCraze said:
Well you don't watch Paris Hilton comedies that supposed to be fun and relaxing, do you?

There's a difference in attempting to find enjoyment in something that's truly atrocious and shitty and in something that might not be the greatest movie or game ever, but still has good features. Mass Effect is an example I love to use. Compared to some shit out there it's a mighty fine game. Is it on the level of Planescape? No, but I'll be damned if I can't get some good fun out of it nonetheless. Why shouldn't I? C&C, good writing and consistent setting, which it lacks, are not absolutely necesarry for a game to be good, and thus I put my need for those things aside when playing that particular game, and enjoy the fun gameplay, the athmosphere and extreme renegade options instead. It's a nice alternative to getting pissed at every game which doesn't have every last feature I look for, which is what I think some elitist gamers do, and which ruins the fun you could have if you just chilled out a bit.
 

Gay-Lussac

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Vibalist said:
Now, this is not meant as a trolling attempt on my part, but it's rather something I've thought about for a while. I reckon the following article raises some pretty good points on the issue of elitist gamers.

http://www.psxextreme.com/feature/327.html

The journalist does come across as a bit arrogant, but I can't really disagree with his main point. Is gaming really and truly worth getting worked up over? Bitching and moaning all day long about how Fallout 3 was not a true successor to Fallout 1 and 2 does seem to be more trouble than it's worth. For something that is meant to be a pastime and relaxing hobby, don't you pretty much kill whatever enjoyment you can deride from gaming by always being mad at it? I myself used to have all sorts of ideas and rules for what a good game is, to the point where I simply refused to play Mass Effect and Fallout 3 out of principle, despite not really knowing those games or giving them a fair chance. All that really changed when I put my expectations aside and took those games for what they are, namely fairly entertaining romps that certainly have a lot of good (mindless ;) ) fun to offer, even if the writing isn't good or the setting isn't consistant.

Maybe some people here could do with lowering their expectations a bit. If you find Mass Effect an unplayable mess and a bore, and simply cannot get into the story or the combat system despite trying your best, then by all means bash it and tell the world what you feel is wrong with it. But if your own pre-conceived ideas of what a good game is gets in the way of you having fun, why not put that shit aside and get some enjoyment out of your hobby instead?

Trust me you're wasting your time. You can't change someone unless they want to be changed and most of the "elitists" here are perfectly comfortable being bitchy and whiny children.
 

Vibalist

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MLMarkland said:
People can have high standards for movies and still enjoy great movies, games aren't any different. There's no need to lower standards for content. It's hard to have fun with bad games and the vast majority of major releases in the past two years have been atrocious.

Atrocious? The word atrocious is something which I associate with unplayable shite, and while many mainstrean games are mediocre, I don't think many major releases have been downright atrocious. Give me 5 minutes and I could easily name 20 games of the last couple years that I've found fun.
 

bhlaab

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I loved Fallout 1 and 2 and have no reason to bitch about them. So yeah, if I'm not bitching about a game that means I either haven't played it or did have fun with it.

I feel as though my bitching, as part of a larger bitching dynamic, could eventually cause Bethesda to give us some sort of minor concession, eventually. And once they've given us an inch, we can push for that mile. And inch by inch we might be able to bitch them into a corner and make talented designers out of them!
 

Zomg

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The cultural window has slapped shut on the path for games to be anything but a distraction shit mill. Leave the field to these guys.
 

bhlaab

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What's this? We're at war with Vietnam? Well, the US has been good to me in the past, I see no reason to raise a ruckus, everyone else seems to think it's a good idea, I'm sure they'll burn down less villages in the next war...

NO! I'm the one who is going to the airport and throwing trash at the veterans, because I bitch from the sidelines and make a difference. Damn it!
 

Zomg

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Vibalist said:
Distracting you from what?

From whatever marginally less entertaining thing you would be doing instead, I suppose? Modally I guess people trying not to think about their credit card debt, slow oil leaks and obesity.
 

Vibalist

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Zomg said:
Vibalist said:
Distracting you from what?

From whatever marginally less entertaining thing you would be doing instead, I suppose? Modally I guess people trying not to think about their credit card debt, slow oil leaks and obesity.

People need time away from that stuff at times. Nothing wrong with that. And besides, why would an intelligent game like Planescape be less of a distraction from those issues? Escapism is escapism.
 

MetalCraze

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Vibalist said:
There's a difference in attempting to find enjoyment in something that's truly atrocious and shitty and in something that might not be the greatest movie or game ever, but still has good features.
One or two good features won't save the game that has 100 of bad features. It is painful to endure boring gameplay for hours just to have 5 minutes of something that isn't even awesome. Like with Mass Effect and FO3.

Mass Effect is an example I love to use. Compared to some shit out there it's a mighty fine game.
And compared to some games from as early as mid-90s it is terrible. It is easier to turn your brain off and pretend that better games never happened. And by better I mean mid-late-90s mediocrity. Also what's the point in playing the exactly same Bioware game for which time?

C&C, good writing and consistent setting, which it lacks, are not absolutely necesarry for a game to be good, and thus I put my need for those things aside when playing that particular game, and enjoy the fun gameplay, the athmosphere and extreme renegade options instead.
So with what does it leave the game? A boring repetitive shooter for lazy who just like sitting in one place, taking shots at slow enemies, marked with red triangles to help retards who wonder whether that guy, who just put a whole clip up their butt is an enemy or not? All those look-a-like Doom clones from mid-90s were more fun than this.
Renegade options? During the game there is only like a pair of EXTREME options - so see the point at the top of the post.

It's a nice alternative to getting pissed at every game which doesn't have every last feature I look for, which is what I think some elitist gamers do, and which ruins the fun you could have if you just chilled out a bit.
It's hard to chill out when a game plays itself for you which is a current trend with games. With current games the only way to chill out is to either play older games that do have gameplay or watch a movie.

What also amazes me that today when it comes to games elitist means normal gamer, while non-elitist sounds more like moron. Demanding a game with a good gameplay and a genre besides akshun-shooter today is considered elitism. Scaling to the level of a modern juvenile crap just to have 2 minutes of fun? No thanks.
Older gamers didn't become more jaded, games just became shit - that's the point.
 

Zomg

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Vibalist said:
People need time away from that stuff at times. Nothing wrong with that. And besides, why would an intelligent game like Planescape be less of a distraction from those issues? Escapism is escapism.

I started to be :Lyric Suite: ish and make a rhetorical dichotomy between distraction and escape but it ain't flowin', Bioware is gay y'all peace.
 

Helton

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I have a tons of fun with the ~10 games which meet my standards for their genre.

edit: But then I'm not exactly elitist I don't care what you play.
 

Zomg

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The less fun way to address this in the context of the Codex is the obediah argument, which is that mainstream games used to be for clever nerds, even luxuriantly pandered-to subgroups of clever nerds, and are now basically for the median male. I'm always looking for ways to drape the full elitist attitude with some internal consistency but I think that's the core of it.
 

Data4

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Over there.
MetalCraze said:
Well you don't watch Paris Hilton comedies that supposed to be fun and relaxing, do you?

Just thought I'd add that I watch Paris Hilton comedies because despite all the negativity around her, I still wanna see her puss and wouldn't mind a notch-in-the-belt fuck with her.

Oh, you mean her theatrical releases? Eh, banal shit boring.
 

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