Dominions Decline 11: The Grimgrinch vs Christmas

[Dreaad]

Heh, sometimes the fear 5 saves it even then.

Edit: Also I guess I'll qualify that. If I take a snake, it almost always has 6-9 earth, which pushes it's prot to levels where it's highly unlikely that anything will make a dent. If I take a kraken.... I always take 8-9 death for extra fear (though mainly because invulnerability and soul vortex are awesome on a kraken). I guess it's possible I've just got really lucky and never hit an 80 shark knight province next to my capital. The most trolls I've ever seen is 10 with a kraken, that's not really enough to kill a 300 hp monster, it's possible of course, but generally you kill 1 a turn and they rout after 4-5 deaths.

 

[Grimwulf]

Edit: Also I guess I'll qualify that. If I take a snake, it almost always has 6-9 earth, which pushes it's prot to levels where it's highly unlikely that anything will make a dent. If I take a kraken.... I always take 8-9 death for extra fear (though mainly because invulnerability and soul vortex are awesome on a kraken). I guess it's possible I've just got really lucky and never hit an 80 shark knight province next to my capital. The most trolls I've ever seen is 10 with a kraken, that's not really enough to kill a 300 hp monster, it's possible of course, but generally you kill 1 a turn and they rout after 4-5 deaths.

You must be talking about disciple games. Awaken Pretender Kraken with D8-9 is just wow. Armour doesn't really matter if Serpent starts to bleed out. Even if he wins the battle, the bleeding doesn't stop. Sometimes it wears off before hp reaches zero, sometimes it doesn't.

And Kraken isn't suited to fight solo from the start at all. At the very least, he needs minimal buffs and preferably some weapon(s) equipped to lower the number of attacks per turn. I usually give him two Thorn Spears from Constr 0, and even then send him to fight only the weakest indy defenders.

 

[sqeecoo]

Ahhh, I still remember my Kraken fighting KoolNoodles' Asphodel freespawn in Decline 5. He fell asleep immediately and then just lie there regenerating until everyone eventually fled from his fear aura :D

 

[Malakal]

Kraken is rather limited with slots but at least makes for a good cheap rainbow. And an assassin, somehow.

Anyway earth snake dies to anything that can either punch thru his sky high prot or swarm him until he fatigues or routs.

 

[Dim]

That was 6 trolls a kraken and a mage. Can I attack Theredos? Is it ok? wont he die to dominion anyway? oops forgot to script banishment on my casters.

 

[Grimwulf]

Can I attack Theredos? Is it ok?

Yes, the world will be grateful.

oops forgot to script banishment on my casters.

You can redo and resend your turns anytime, as much as you need. Llamaserver only accepts the latest turn file sent from you. But once the turn is proceeded (new turn arrives), it's too late to change anything.

 

[Joined on the 4th of July]

oops forgot to script banishment on my casters.

Always run your expansion parties like your web browser. No script.

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Disclaimer: might not be the best advice.

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Although I do often like to run only partial scripts for my guys. "Cast this, cast that, then cast whatever you want for three turns, then do whatever" or "fire and keep distance" instead of "fire and keep distance closest"

Spoiler

That might be stupid too. Maybe teh pros around here will have an opinion.

 

[Malakal]

There isnt much to script at expansion phase, you dont have many tools available. Just position your troops to get the first attack in (that one is huge) and assess the indie threat correctly. And know what units to recruit to expand.

 

[Grimwulf]

There are some minor tricks you can use against indies every now and then. Like
- exploiting the barb chiefs who always attack your commanders, no matter where they stand;
- when fighting Bloodhenge Druids - place everything you got on the rearmost row with hold order - this way all druids will enter sabbath as masters, then all of them enter it again as slaves (they don't have any other spells that are usable at this range);
- when facing a shitload of archers place a single unit at the front row and script to guard commander, while placing the commander at the rearmost - then the archers will target the unit and chase him without actual shooting - very easy to engage them in melee that way;

But you know all that by now. We went through this during Decline 8.

 

[Dim]

I am not expanding I am just trying to end Theredos' suffering.

 

[Johannes]

- exploiting the barb chiefs who always attack your commanders, no matter where they stand;

Not true, they attack the closest enemy always - on a given turn. So while the troops get locked on to the target that's the closest on the first round, the chiefs re-assess their target each turn. That's my impression at least of the exact mechanics, but if your take was correct the basic anti-barb script (someone on guard commander at front, commander in the opposite corner, and the real army behind the guy who's on guard commander) wouldn't work.

Overall there's a lot of things you can do to improve your perfomance. Depends on what you're using though, a band of Vanheres or White Centaurs is p. optimized just on straight up attacking the enemy (though an archer decoy is always nice), when you mix and match different troops - archers, lineholders, hard hitters, elephants... You have more room to make improve with some creativity.

 

[Dayyālu]

I am not expanding I am just trying to end Theredos' suffering.

Seriously, this build is shit and I would suggest myself to Oceania to off me: SC God, and a 15k province nearby can give a nice boost. Plus manpower to siege it quickly can be levied, and I can't do a thing as my bless is subpar to fight underwater. Plus nuking a domkill nation.

Again, this is all Dreaad's fault: if he got a standard map, Therodos would have probably ended up in one of the smaller lakes and that would have been awesome and good.

That was 6 trolls a kraken and a mage. Can I attack Theredos? Is it ok? wont he die to dominion anyway? oops forgot to script banishment on my casters.

No, the domspread is weak but it's there. You should park your Pret and your Prophet on my cap and stay there, a waste of precious turns in the early game. Go for a stock kill, faster methinks. Remember: I can't recruit a thing bar Sacreds UW, POOR AMPHIBIAN sacreds.

Even Starspawns or Atlantis would have been ded in this position: with Therodos and without a Awake Pret, it's a joke.

 

[Dreaad]

They told me to trust the map makers! The voices! The voices don't lie!

 

[Grimwulf]

Not true, they attack the closest enemy always - on a given turn. So while the troops get locked on to the target that's the closest on the first round, the chiefs re-assess their target each turn.

I was wrong on this one, although it doesn't mean you are right. So I Hellbinded some barb chiefs and barb lords just now - they all have simple "attack" script. IIRC, when you Hellbind a unit with "attack commander" script - it remains like that. (copy-pasting it to others is condiered minor cheating in certain communities, btw)

But I don't see how it's possible to "re-assess" targets each turn. Are you saying that barb chiefs charge at commader at turn 1, then somewhere during turn 3 they just change their minds and target somebody else? Obviously, they change targets if engaged in melee by somone. And also if berserk is triggered - pretty sure berserks always attack closest targets. But other than that, can't see how it's possible.

No, the domspread is weak but it's there. You should park your Pret and your Prophet on my cap and stay there, a waste of precious turns in the early game. Go for a stock kill, faster methinks. Remember: I can't recruit a thing bar Sacreds UW, POOR AMPHIBIAN sacreds.

mondblut will be so happy when he comes back.

 

[Johannes]

Not true, they attack the closest enemy always - on a given turn. So while the troops get locked on to the target that's the closest on the first round, the chiefs re-assess their target each turn.

I was wrong on this one, although it doesn't mean you are right. So I Hellbinded some barb chiefs and barb lords just now - they all have simple "attack" script. IIRC, when you Hellbind a unit with "attack commander" script - it remains like that. (copy-pasting it to others is condiered minor cheating in certain communities, btw)

But I don't see how it's possible to "re-assess" targets each turn. Are you saying that barb chiefs charge at commader at turn 1, then somewhere during turn 3 they just change their minds and target somebody else? Obviously, they change targets if engaged in melee by somone. And also if berserk is triggered - pretty sure berserks always attack closest targets. But other than that, can't see how it's possible.

Where have you gotten the idea that the barbs specifically target commanders at any point ever? All I know for 100% certain is that they target targets that aren't closest to them, either they switch the target (maybe their script is like (attack)(attack)(attack)(attack)(attack)-> attack) or pick their initial target with some weird method not used anywhere else commonplace.



IIRC you cant copy-paste bogus's commands to others anymore, that's a Dom3 thing. But I could be wrong I haven't tested it.

 

[Grimwulf]

Where have you gotten the idea that the barbs specifically target commanders at any point ever? All I know for 100% certain is that they target targets that aren't closest to them

Ok, after some more testing seems like you're right after all. The only pattern is indeed attacking anything, except for the closest target. Some go for commanders, some for other squads of units. Conans are fucked up.

IIRC you cant copy-paste bogus's commands to others anymore, that's a Dom3 thing. But I could be wrong I haven't tested it.

Maybe, I'm not sure either. The rule is still listed in dom3mods, tho.

 

[Dreaad]

Meanwhile.

Isiloon: Do you mind postponing by an hour or two, I am just about to go home and will do my turn immediately.

And so it begins.

 

[Grimwulf]

First blood, men! Lanka officially begins the stalefest!

 

[Dreaad]

Wait a minute!! He made it with 25 mins to go!

 

[Grimwulf]

I see three heroes of Therodos in HoF. What the fuck happened? Don't tell me that Oceania's assault failed.

 

[Dreaad]

Well if only the snake attacked it probably would have failed .

 

[Grimwulf]

Well if only the snake attacked it probably would have failed .

No, look at the merc screen. Oсeania recruited a merc band last turn - where is it?

Don't get me wrong, I'm just genuinely surprised about HOW COULD POSSIBLY Therodos win a full-scale attack of Oceania's starting band + mercs + Earth Serpent.

 

[Isiloon]

Fuck that was a hectic weekend, bidirectional first time parents meeting with gf and driving out of town, sleeping in a tent and fucking not searching for enough magic sites.

Barely made it back in time and I had the best time coming home to a chop bong and reading this massive shit fest from you scoundrels.

TLDR Lanka was too busy eating coconuts, then they see its the end of the month approaching and they haven't done shit so they got their A into G

 

[Isiloon]

aaaand they got completely spanked by the indies.

 

[Dayyālu]

Don't get me wrong, I'm just genuinely surprised about HOW COULD POSSIBLY Therodos win a full-scale attack of Oceania's starting band + mercs + Earth Serpent.

Not the only one. LAST STAND OF THE GHOSTIES