Editorial Dragon Age 2 is Declining RPGs

[Jason]

Tags: BioWare; Dragon Age 2

<p>Time spent with the recent <a href="http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=56167" target="_blank">Dragon Age II demo</a> led Hooked Gamers to lament <a href="http://www.hookedgamers.com/editorials/2011/03/02/dragon_age_ii_the_decline_of_the_classic_rpg.html" target="_blank">The Decline of the Classic RPG</a>.</p>
<blockquote>What we see in Dragon Age 2 is a distinct loss of the necessity to plan attacks, you really can play it as an action-RPG. The demo made this immediately evident when we tried to adopt the pause-play style &ndash; it was just not practical. The reason for this is because combat is paced much faster and the only really viable way to play the game is to button mash. Any tactics like using the right spell at the right time are made obsolete due to the lack of friendly fire (apart from Nightmare mode) and spells that recharge almost in the blink of an eye. Don&rsquo;t get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with button mashing, I actually enjoy it, but this is simply not what I want from Dragon Age!</blockquote>
<p>You're playing the role of a button masher etc.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p><em>Thanks to Jaesun once again</em></p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>

 

[RainSong]

this article... this comments... we are not alone

aslo, copy pasted from their comment which copy pasted from Brent Knowles (lead designer of Dragon Age Origins(?) who resigned because he did not like the direction they were going with DA2) blog:

Discussion on Dragon Age 2 began around this time and looking ahead I knew that I wasn’t going to be satisfied with what Dragon Age 2 would be. Party control/tactical combat are huge factors in my enjoyment of a role-playing game as is adopting the role of the hero (i.e., customizing my character). I was fairly certain Dragon Age would transition towards more of a Mass Effect experience, which while enjoyable is not the type of role-playing game I play. Could I be the lead designer on such a title? Certainly… though if I were going to work on a game adopting a set-in-stone protagonist I’d rather work on something lighter, like a shooter.

Another part is lining up paid DLC's even before the general public has had a chance to purchase their game. Although that basically makes me hate EA and it wouldn't have prevented me from getting the game if it would be 'classic' enough.

 

[CrunchyHemorrhoids]

Did he quit the games industry? I thought they were too cowardly to ever badmouth anyone in the biz.

As far as the set-in-stone protagonist goes DA2's even worse than ME as Shepard's background is relatively a blank slate, Commander Hawke on the other hand actually has his family tag along for the adventure.

How did we go from the parents killed by orcs/amnesiac syndrome to this? Did some study show that casual gamers prefer being spectators on a pre-defined character's ride?

 

[Crooked Bee]

How did we go from the parents killed by orcs/amnesiac syndrome to this? Did some study show that casual gamers prefer being spectators on a pre-defined character's ride?

JRPGs?

 

[Fallin' daggers]

this article... this comments... we are not alone

aslo, copy pasted from their comment which copy pasted from Brent Knowles (lead designer of Dragon Age Origins(?) who resigned because he did not like the direction they were going with DA2) blog:

Discussion on Dragon Age 2 began around this time and looking ahead I knew that I wasn’t going to be satisfied with what Dragon Age 2 would be. Party control/tactical combat are huge factors in my enjoyment of a role-playing game as is adopting the role of the hero (i.e., customizing my character). I was fairly certain Dragon Age would transition towards more of a Mass Effect experience, which while enjoyable is not the type of role-playing game I play. Could I be the lead designer on such a title? Certainly… though if I were going to work on a game adopting a set-in-stone protagonist I’d rather work on something lighter, like a shooter.

Another part is lining up paid DLC's even before the general public has had a chance to purchase their game. Although that basically makes me hate EA and it wouldn't have prevented me from getting the game if it would be 'classic' enough.

well I'm glad someone said something, I bet on that god awful social network of theirs Biodrones are calling him a trollfor hating on their game. No honestly that's why they do, someone dislikes an element of DA2 he is a troll. Go on, go there, say something, I dare you.

 

[FaChoi]

Any tactics like using the right spell at the right time are made obsolete

Spells obsolete makes most abilities obsolete, aside from the passive +30 to attack stuff.

The abilities are mosty useless as well, was a struggle at times to pick something worthwhile every level and in many cases i just didn't bother and waited for another level up to decide.

The stats are pretty much obsolete as well then;
IF warrior THEN strength and constitution, rouge- dexterity and cunnning, mage- mage stuff.

Why even give me the choice? So I can pretend it's an RPG?

 

[Vulee]

The article is shit.

Knights of the Old Republic took the classic cRPG formula and placed it within the vast Stars Wars universe

Granted, you can choose your own class, first name and the options for customisation of the character may be fairly detailed but the main character comes with its own, predetermined race, identity and history.

For someone claiming that KOTOR is a "classic cRPG", this is pretty hypocritical.
I couldn't bear to read two more pages.

We need smarter people to battle the .

 

[Yeesh]

One thing the article makes me wonder about is what the author's reaction would be to the release of the exact same game EXCEPT with a different title and marketed as an ARPG (in straight real time without the underwhelming "pause-play" mode). A lot of what's written is about the difference between expectations and results, which is very alien to us, isn't it? Since it is mantra here that Bioware only makes crap. Hard to fathom such disappointment.

 

[Vibalist]

Well, he calls Kotor a good game and Bioware the last bastion of real RPG's (up until now), so I can't wholly agree with him, but he's certainly spot on in his assessment of the RPG genre being turned into a shooter with light stats, and for that he deserves some credit. What other mainstream gaming site would even touch on this issue? Hookedgamers earn a from me, even if half the people here probably consider them popamole and shit.

 

[SlowLane]

Any tactics like using the right spell at the right time are made obsolete

Spells obsolete makes most abilities obsolete, aside from the passive +30 to attack stuff.

The abilities are mosty useless as well, was a struggle at times to pick something worthwhile every level and in many cases i just didn't bother and waited for another level up to decide.

The stats are pretty much obsolete as well then;
IF warrior THEN strength and constitution, rouge- dexterity and cunnning, mage- mage stuff.

Why even give me the choice? So I can pretend it's an RPG?

Sounds perfect, you can role play someone playing a RPG making the game a RPRPG...
Acronym looks awkward maybe RrPG would be better, not to be confused with ArrrrrRPG which is a game where you can play with pirates, RisenII for example.

Extreme !
Awesome !

BoiWare! Puts the EA in RPG!

(I'll leave it to the reader to actually put EA into RPG.
Had to get that joke out of my head, it's been bugging me for days)

 

[Dantus12]

Interesting article.

The Brent Knowles thing, is a old information. A man that refused to sacrifice His professional integrity, for the "benefit" of being part of the big casual group.

There is more to this actually , there are not many battles left one of them being Bioware vs Blizzard, and the second one that breaks on the backs of the "smaller," participants EA vs Activision.

It's not just Brent Knowles that left, one can try to claim that they left for the better professional opportunity, but that's somehow moot when dropping the name Bioware.

Kevin Martens, like Knowles leaves after being DAO's Senior Design Consultant IIRC, and joins Blizzard.
He's now with Troika's Leo Boyarsky on Diablo 3.

Dan Tudge leaves for a Disney job knowing that Disney is on a dying bed commercially, again after DAO's finished development, Director and Producer .

EA takes over full publishing rights over SWTOR leaving Lucas arts with minor development tidbits.

And then Gordon Walton leaves SWTORr together with two other leaders of the EA "casual" branch.

Looks like the of peoples favored genres has something to do with it.
Better go for a Farmville or Bigpoint like place, at least one knows what He's working at, then pretend that Your work has anything related to the path defining and trend setting things that once upon a time existed , at least on the paper.


____________________________

 

[Micmu]

The article is shit.

Knights of the Old Republic took the classic cRPG formula and placed it within the vast Stars Wars universe

Granted, you can choose your own class, first name and the options for customisation of the character may be fairly detailed but the main character comes with its own, predetermined race, identity and history.

For someone claiming that KOTOR is a "classic cRPG", this is pretty hypocritical.
I couldn't bear to read two more pages.

We need smarter people to battle the .

Well... at least it tells you how much EAware's excrements have declined. Not even xboxers like that aren't recognizing them as RPGs anymore.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

One thing the article makes me wonder about is what the author's reaction would be to the release of the exact same game EXCEPT with a different title and marketed as an ARPG (in straight real time without the underwhelming "pause-play" mode). A lot of what's written is about the difference between expectations and results, which is very alien to us, isn't it? Since it is mantra here that Bioware only makes crap. Hard to fathom such disappointment.

Except that its just as bad if not worse by ARPG standards. Bioware cannot into good combat.

 

[DoomIhlVaria]

rpgsus, rpgsi, rpgso, rpgsum, rpgso, (rpgse) / rpgsi, rpgsorum, rpgsis, rpgsos, rpgsis
or
rpgsr, rpgs, rpgsi, rpgss / rpgsar, rpgsa, rpgsum, rpgsa?

 

[Johannes]

One thing the article makes me wonder about is what the author's reaction would be to the release of the exact same game EXCEPT with a different title and marketed as an ARPG (in straight real time without the underwhelming "pause-play" mode). A lot of what's written is about the difference between expectations and results, which is very alien to us, isn't it? Since it is mantra here that Bioware only makes crap. Hard to fathom such disappointment.

Except that its just as bad if not worse by ARPG standards. Bioware cannot into good combat.

Maybe, but if it's shit does it matter how much it smells? It's still shit and not worth playing either way.

 

[J_C]

The market has always been driven by sales, but nowadays the publishers and producers are sacrificing genres in order to make more money.

This.

If Bioware wouldn't be a greedy fuck, they would make a normal cRPG. Possibly it wouldn't sell as good as this shitty DA2, but it would sell enough to make lots of money. But no, Bioware is not satisfied with 2 milion copies, they want 3 million. Other developers would kill even for 1 million, but the guys at Bioware need a new yakuzzi.

 

[Rogue]

I don't think that DA2 will sell good at all.

 

[RPGMaster]

The market has always been driven by sales, but nowadays the publishers and producers are sacrificing genres in order to make more money.

This.

If Bioware wouldn't be a greedy fuck, they would make a normal cRPG. Possibly it wouldn't sell as good as this shitty DA2, but it would sell enough to make lots of money. But no, Bioware is not satisfied with 2 milion copies, they want 3 million. Other developers would kill even for 1 million, but the guys at Bioware need a new yakuzzi.

10 million actually. http://social.bioware.com/=http:/social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/141/index/3267335/1

 

[Ogg]

Any tactics like using the right spell at the right time are made obsolete

Spells obsolete makes most abilities obsolete, aside from the passive +30 to attack stuff.

The abilities are mosty useless as well, was a struggle at times to pick something worthwhile every level and in many cases i just didn't bother and waited for another level up to decide.

The stats are pretty much obsolete as well then;
IF warrior THEN strength and constitution, rouge- dexterity and cunnning, mage- mage stuff.

Why even give me the choice? So I can pretend it's an RPG?

You can play the role of a man who plays an RPG. Ain't that awesome?

 

[sgc_meltdown]

BIOWARE IS MAKING TWILIGHT GAMES FOR MEN

 

[Stainless Veteran]

Somewhat relevant:

 

[sgc_meltdown]

now make the dwarf one

 

[Overweight Manatee]

The market has always been driven by sales, but nowadays the publishers and producers are sacrificing genres in order to make more money.

This.

If Bioware wouldn't be a greedy fuck, they would make a normal cRPG. Possibly it wouldn't sell as good as this shitty DA2, but it would sell enough to make lots of money. But no, Bioware is not satisfied with 2 milion copies, they want 3 million. Other developers would kill even for 1 million, but the guys at Bioware need a new yakuzzi.

They can't help it since they became EA's lapdog. Its impossible to go to work every day doing something you don't believe in. Either you quit or you have to convince yourself that being a greedy cockmongler all along was what it was about.

 

[RPGMaster]

Somewhat relevant:

 

[Hobo Elf]

One thing the article makes me wonder about is what the author's reaction would be to the release of the exact same game EXCEPT with a different title and marketed as an ARPG (in straight real time without the underwhelming "pause-play" mode). A lot of what's written is about the difference between expectations and results, which is very alien to us, isn't it? Since it is mantra here that Bioware only makes crap. Hard to fathom such disappointment.

It's still poor even as an ARPG. But at least it wouldn't be lying about the genre.