Interview Dragon Age II Won't Be Dumbed Down

[deus101]

So are people that play Simulators, but you dont see their niches taken over by greedy space jews.

 

[Konjad]

"Bioware are simply not making games that pander to people who frequent this forum"

That's because tyhey don't need to. the Codex are hardcore RPG nerds so they're gonna buy pretty much anything remotely RPGish no matter how much they rant about how x game sucking.

In case of some members this is true. And sad. Very sad.

Seriously, if someone from this forum will buy DA2, his head shall roll.

 

[Reptilian Shapeshifter]

So are people that play Simulators, but you dont see their niches taken over by greedy space jews draconians.

Fixed for accuracy.

 

[Stainless Veteran]

"Bioware are simply not making games that pander to people who frequent this forum"

That's because tyhey don't need to. the Codex are hardcore RPG nerds so they're gonna buy pretty much anything remotely RPGish no matter how much they rant about how x game sucking.

Codex? Buy?

 

[jiujitsu]

So, Medal of Honor and Grand Theft Auto are RPGs? Honestly, these guys should just stop calling their games RPGs. They are action games.

The reason they call them RPGs is to drag along the hardcore fanbase by giving them hope that they will get something they like.

The most infuriating thing is that they won't just be honest about it. They remove aspects from the RPG formula, so that they can appeal to a wider audience and thus make more money.

No, instead they drag us along. Disappointment after disappointment. It's like they forgot that the hardcore fan base was there from the beginning when no one else gave a shit.

I really hate the game industry. Why can't these guys just be fucking poor and make sweet ass games for other poor people based on principle?

 

[Naked Ninja]

Take Diablo 2, for example. I know it's an action RPG, but the game doesn't make any attempts to ease people into the stats and skills thing. Sold 1 mil in the first 2 weeks (looking very dated), 4 mil in about a year, over 10 mil by 2010. The fucking thing still keeps selling and was on top 10 charts last year.

Dude.

You're a bro and all but you're so wrong here it's ironic. Blizzard had the exact same philosophy in D2, I think I even remember one of the designers stating it in an interview.

You start D2 by picking a name, a class and then jumping right into play. No stat allocation, no picking skills and no understanding mechanics. When you pick a class you get a short description, no numerical information at all. You get a default skill for your class, always the exact same one.

The initial few levels are all quick but they serve to space out your initial build choices into small doses. And in the end you have a system that has more varied build paths than most RPGs.

They do the same thing with WoW. In the end you have a giant array of skills and variables to track but you start off with a class and race and 2 default skills. You only really get to start customizing your class at level 10, after about an hour or two of learning to play and gaining a 1-2 new skills every level (the core skills of your class).

Blizzard is a champion of this mindset, these designs weren't accidental, they were done with the same philosophy as Laidlow espouses here. And honestly there isn't anything wrong with this kind of incremental teaching approach. Even the best of us have restarted RPGs because we had no idea we were making poor build choices until a while into the game. I restarted my mage character in MW because, silly me, I didn't realize the mage star sign wasn't a great choice for a pure mage, the apprentice was. I kept running out of mana in MW.

 

[Xor]

I think the main difference between Blizzard games and Bioware is that Blizzard is actually competent.

On the surface Diablo 2 has a very simple skill system, but it's actually complex enough that I can still have fun coming up with character builds 11 years after the game came out. Blizzard has always been about "easy to learn, tough to master", which they themselves often attribute to why they've been so successful.

Bioware (and other developers), on the other hand, seem to forget the "tough to master" part and just make their games as easy as possible. Easy games might be fun for a while, but they're never fun for very long.

I got bored with DAO around the 10 hour mark when I realized the enemy placements weren't going to get any harder. Diablo 2 is still fun; I still don't feel like I've completely mastered it.

 

[Rogue]

Well fuck daunting and fuck all the little sissies. I play games because I like a challenge. If I'm not constantly having to work hard I get bored. Where's the fun in playing if you know that there's no way for you to die except to completely fuck up?

 

[Naked Ninja]

Really? I felt like I mastered it on a single normal mode playthrough and all they did was make everything tougher and more resistant in later modes. It's not like the creatures suddenly started using different tactics in further difficulty levels. It was a cheap trick designed to string along the OCD crowd, not a miraculous or complex design.


But whatever, regardless of Bioware's competence, you can't hold D2 up as a counterexample to DA2 design choices when it had the exact same philosophy.

 

[Rogue]

Deus Ex did just that

Yeah, DX was ridiculously easy. I played it on hard the first time and it seemed ok. When playing the 2nd time I chose impossible or something and it didn't seem different at all. So before playing it further I made my own script to increase the game's difficulty. Basically I made all the enemies react better and faster, see farther; bosses had much more HP etc. That helped.
It was easy because there was so much stuff laying around and there were so many ways to do something. Where there was a locked door, there was also a keypad to crack, a computer to hack, a duct to crawl through, a TNT crate to blow up ...

 

[Naked Ninja]

I like Rogue. He plays RPGs on maximum difficulty and doesn't afraid of anything.

 

[Rogue]

Well, look, I can't have fun playing it safe in games, I'm not able to. I take care of my fleshy body in real life, you know play it safe so I don't die while crashing into a city bus at 200 mph, but I don't want to do that in games. I want excitement, thrill, danger and if I die trying so be it, I'll only come back with more fury. That's the beauty of games for me as your blood quickens knowing that mortal danger is near. It's much more comforting to me knowing that I'll probably never master a game on nightmare or impossible setting than playing a game on hardest setting while feeling like it's not that hard and there's no more challenges to be had ...

 

[Brotherman Bill]

the new gaming world, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the true cRPG genre.

I think this is where your plan breaks down.

keep wondering why people care so much

Because
Some people here actually like to play RPGs
therefore, they care about the quality of RPGs
Bioware is one of the most important RPG-makers around, what they do influences the genre significantly
Therefore, they care about what Bioware does.

 

[Punck_D]

So, Medal of Honor and Grand Theft Auto are RPGs? Honestly, these guys should just stop calling their games RPGs. They are action games.

The reason they call them RPGs is to drag along the hardcore fanbase by giving them hope that they will get something they like.

This. Where I can understand why people were blinded by games like BG1/2, ever since KotOR Bioware did nothing else than action games in disguise. Selling ME2 as a RPG was mind-boggling, but DA2 compared to its precedessor (which was Bio's best CRPG IMO) and the shameless and offensive abandoning of actual RPG-elements - well, that's a whole new level.

 

[Xor]

Really? I felt like I mastered it on a single normal mode playthrough and all they did was make everything tougher and more resistant in later modes. It's not like the creatures suddenly started using different tactics in further difficulty levels. It was a cheap trick designed to string along the OCD crowd, not a miraculous or complex design.


But whatever, regardless of Bioware's competence, you can't hold D2 up as a counterexample to DA2 design choices when it had the exact same philosophy.

My point is that they don't have the exact same philosophy. Bioware is making DA2 as easy as possible from beginning to end, while Blizzard makes their games initially easy with a difficulty curve that ramps up considerably toward the end (at least in theory).

Also, Diablo 2 was actually made more difficult with pretty much every patch until the most recent one, and enemies in hell are much more dangerous than in nightmare. Of course, I pretty much exclusively play hardcore games at this point. Enemies still feel dangerous and it's still fun.

 

[CrimsonAngel]

It is all fine and good to start out by making things simple and then adding depth and options as the game goes along.
There is all kind of short cuts and UI type things that can be done that will improve the ability to understand that is going on.

Like using specific colours to accent skills that will be more useful, pre-set builds, toggle auto lvling and so on.

Take Blazblue a fighting game for the consoles it has a EXTENSIVE tutorial and videos for you to learn the game through.
What ever you want to know you can learn EASY.

It is sad that for most RPG makers streamlining and making things more accessible dose not mean making it easier to udnerstand, instead it means that the game needs to be made stupider.

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

By the way... the fucking Japs are the only ones still making things remotely challenging in the RPG vein. Just let that sink in for a second.

 

[tehRPness]

I don't really get why people don't jake JRPGs seriously when you look at the shit we make over here. Even if they might not seem to evolve much, at least they're not declining into diluted versions of RPGs under some guise that they're actually evolving.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Sad but true.

 

[.Sigurd]

 

[IronicNeurotic]

What do you expect from a guy with a name like my laid (down) law?

A shitload more. He shares his name with this guy for fucks sake

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Laidlaw

 

[Rogue]

I guess he sure showed him.

 

[MetalCraze]

"Bioware are simply not making games that pander to people who frequent this forum"

That's because tyhey don't need to. the Codex are hardcore RPG nerds so they're gonna buy pretty much anything remotely RPGish no matter how much they rant about how x game sucking.

Codex? Buy?

You'd be surprised how many Codexers pay for their games (incl. me). Jaesun even has all horse armour packs for ME2 - but he's already a fag. And obviously there will be many who will buy DA2

 

[Risine]

Take Diablo 2, for example. I know it's an action RPG, but the game doesn't make any attempts to ease people into the stats and skills thing. Sold 1 mil in the first 2 weeks (looking very dated), 4 mil in about a year, over 10 mil by 2010. The fucking thing still keeps selling and was on top 10 charts last year.

Pretty easy to understand. They just want to make that in one year development, not ten years. EA Bioware don't give a fuck to the quality of this game, and that's a huge difference with blizzard, who :
_ keeps the best stuff of their games ( iso view for instance? ).
_Improves them in every possible way, and even if they fail on some points, they tried hard at least.
_ Listens to their players and take their opinion into account.
_ They won't throw the game to the players until they feel it's perfect ( from their point of view of course ).

 

[commie]

And obviously there will be many who will buy DA2

Speak for yourself faggot.




On topic, why does VoD keep posting such shit? He's like those fucking cunts that poke animals in cages just to get a snarling reaction! This shit just makes Laidlow, Gaydar, Mouldynews and the rest happy as they no doubt check out RPGCodex just to have a good laugh at seeing how well they trolled us without even meaning to!

 

[jiujitsu]

The moment that you stop caring is the moment that you have lost. And they have won. It is serious business. Codex is the lone beacon of light that shines through the darkness, the last bastion of true RPGayming. One place where the real meaning* of RPG has not been forgotten.