Dragon Age: Inquisition Pre-Release Thread

[sea]

"If you're going to make an explicit sex scene in a game," don't.

That's not a real answer. I said "if it's going to happen, how would you do it?" You're dodging the question because you don't have an answer that doesn't make you look like a hypocrite.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaze#The_.22male_gaze.22_in_feminist_theory

I took 20 sociology classes in university and am a bigger feminist than most contemporary women, I think I know how the theory goes. You linking to Wikipedia does not explain what you feel in a sex scene would not qualify as "male gazey." See again: dodging the question.

Random observations from the internet: Most women who talk about games don't have a problem with Bethesda, Bioware, or Obsidian. A not-insignificant number do with CD Projekt. They should perhaps watch Gaider's GDC talk and take
to heart.

First of all, a lot of this I find tends to be mixed up with fanboyism. Since BioWare caters more directly towards female as well as LGBT audiences, they tend to be of the opinion that "BioWare can do no wrong" because they are one of the only companies who are serving them as a market - even though it's in a shallow, pathetic, disgusting way. The fact that they have mere acknowledgement is enough to make them feel that only BioWare can appreciate their needs and treat them "fairly."

Most of the hatred I see towards CD Projekt from this camp comes from (much-deserved) backlash over the first game's sex cards. When it comes to the sequel, things are much more mixed - usually critique I see boils down to "BioWare makes better games" and latent reactionary hatred without actually evaluating the game's sexual content in an objective way. Most people in that community outright dismiss CD Projekt because of their negative impressions of the first game, or they don't give the narrative and characters a chance because they're looking for something to attack them over.

Tell me, is any representation worthwhile, even negative representation? You should be very familiar with this question. Do you find it insulting that when we see transgendered characters in games, they're usually played up for laughs, or are put in roles like prostitution? What about when your "deep and meaningful romance" between two men or two women is basically soap opera schlock? Is that worth cheering BioWare on over? To me, it's rather pathetic and exploitative, and I find it kind of sad and hilarious that anyone would latch onto that as "progressive."

 

[hiver]

"If you're going to make an explicit sex scene in a game," don't.

That's not a real answer. I said "if it's going to happen, how would you do it?" You're dodging the question because you don't have an answer that doesn't make you look like a hypocrite.

Actually, its the best answer.

 

[Angthoron]

Tell me, is any representation worthwhile, even negative representation? You should be very familiar with this question. Do you find it insulting that when we see transgendered characters in games, they're usually played up for laughs, or are put in roles like prostitution? What about when your "deep and meaningful romance" between two men or two women is basically soap opera schlock? Is that worth cheering BioWare on over? To me, it's rather pathetic and exploitative, and I find it kind of sad and hilarious that anyone would latch onto that as "progressive."

I wonder if they would cheer on blackface minstrel shows for representing the black population according to their otherwise warped logic on this, actually.

 

[DalekFlay]

Having a male target audience is a flaw now? What the hell?

Yeah.

One of my pet peeves this decade is how everything has to be okay for everyone. What happened to target markets? I posted about some whiny kotaku guy bitching his non-gamer sister wouldn't like Bioshock... so fucking what? And if a game is made for a male audience and indulges in some male-centric fantasy what's wrong with that? How is that any different from female-centric shit like Sex in the City or Girls?

Male focused != sexist.

 

[Valestein]

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...eralt-grows-a-beard.80281/page-7#post-2491895

As I said, I'm yet to see.

(...) it's not like every woman is vulgar and oversexualised. Aveline's armor design>Saskia's.

The exception proves the rule:

I like how the female character designs of the "progressive" Bioware are no different than what you see with Itagaki's material in Ninja Gaiden or Dead or Alive.

 

[Data4]

I want to see a realistic portrayal of sex in a game.

Man comes home after a long day at work. He's stressing over that goddamned financial report he's supposed to have on his boss's desk by 9 the next morning. Try as he might, he can't leave the anxiety at the office. Wife is all flustered because little Johnny got in a fight at school and she had to leave her receptionist job early to go to the school and straighten it out. But let's not tell Dad, no... he's already got too much shit to worry about. As a result, it's frozen pizza night, because damned if she feels like cooking a full-on meal after that bullshit. Family eats in silence, because everyone has their own shit to think about. Dad doesn't even bitch at Johnny for texting at the table. Johnny then retires to his room to spend the evening on Blops2, while dad flops on the couch and watches some program on the History Channel about Korea era war tech. Mom loads the dishwasher and retires to the bedroom to read a book. 2 hours later, dad wakes up from dozing on the couch and shuffles up to the bedroom, where he strips down to his tighty whiteys and slips into bed. Without a word, he puts a hand on wifey's thigh, which makes her sigh, roll her eyes, and set her book down. After an extremely passionless and mechanical 7 minutes of missionary, she rolls over on her side and falls asleep. He gets up, goes to take a shit, then heads downstairs to raid the fridge. Sandwich in hand, he sits down to Jay Leno and falls asleep 20 minutes later. The dog wanders over and polishes off the remainder of the sandwich.

 

[tuluse]

Roguey you should see what else you can get people to defend just by calling it shit. Nightmare difficulty: Mass Effect 3 ending.

 

[Borelli]

Having her dress slutty is one thing but those ... "short swords" are a fucking disaster. Why are the realistic-weapons-people not being pandered to?

 

[~RAGING BONER~]

realistic weapons? how about something that doesn't float a few inches away from your body whenever you "sheathe" it?

 

[Carrion]

LGBT people want a game about your mom's body parts being used to stitch together a zombie?

I don't think we can pin a masterpiece of the surreal(ly bad) like Dragon Age 2 on minority groups.

I don't know about Canada's demographics, but I'm pretty sure BioWare employees are a minority there. Or at least they will be after DA3 flops.

I also haven't played DA2, I'm basing my opinion mainly on Origins which was the most politically correct take on medieval fantasy I've seen. Zombie mom sounds like something Hepler would come up when asked to write something really dark and mature.

What's funny about all that "HURR GAEM 4 WOMEN" shit is that the RPG-playing girls I know would probably prefer a conanesque sword and sorcery RPG to a tranny sex simulator with boring filler combat like DA2.

Yeah, I've got the same impression as well. I know a few girls who are into P&P games, and some of them like stuff like Conan and The Witcher a lot but no one gives a crap about Dragon Age as far as I know. Even girls prefer testosterone-filled action to limp-wristed faggotry. I also played through BG and BG2 with my girlfriend (who had also played some P&P and whose computer gaming experience was mostly limited to solitaire, HoMM3 and Civilization) a few years back, and she was mostly just interested in fighting and looting and just laughed her ass off in disbelief when Anomen started hitting on her character. About five seconds later she kicked him out of the party and continued to whack stuff with Korgan and company. BioWare's pandering seems to only attract casuals and exceptionally sad individuals.

 

[tuluse]

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, sales show Bioware games are more popular. There will always be more people with shit taste than not.

 

[DragoFireheart]

realistic weapons? how about something that doesn't float a few inches away from your body whenever you "sheathe" it?

Have you ever seen LARPERs? Those short swords look like foam swords.

 

[Roguey]

That's not a real answer. I said "if it's going to happen, how would you do it?" You're dodging the question because you don't have an answer that doesn't make you look like a hypocrite.

All right if one absolutely must have one, it must a) be absolutely relevant and b) not repel women.

One of Yahtzee's adventure games had a sex scene that had to happen because plot. He didn't actually show it in all its lurid detail and I wouldn't have seen the point in doing so.

I took 20 sociology classes in university and am a bigger feminist than most contemporary women, I think I know how the theory goes.

You're a man, you can't be a feminist.

You linking to Wikipedia does not explain what you feel in a sex scene would not qualify as "male gazey." See again: dodging the question.

There's porn for women. Copy that. Dragon Age: Origins did.

First of all, a lot of this I find tends to be mixed up with fanboyism. Since BioWare caters more directly towards female as well as LGBT audiences, they tend to be of the opinion that "BioWare can do no wrong" because they are one of the only companies who are serving them as a market - even though it's in a shallow, pathetic, disgusting way. The fact that they have mere acknowledgement is enough to make them feel that only BioWare can appreciate their needs and treat them "fairly."

I disagree, considering people like Lesi and tumblr. Gaider even recently had a discussion about poc representation in DA with a tumblr fan.

Also you're ignoring Bethesda and Obsidian.

Most of the hatred I see towards CD Projekt from this camp comes from (much-deserved) backlash over the first game's sex cards. When it comes to the sequel, things are much more mixed - usually critique I see boils down to "BioWare makes better games" and latent reactionary hatred without actually evaluating the game's sexual content in an objective way. Most people in that community outright dismiss CD Projekt because of their negative impressions of the first game, or they don't give the narrative and characters a chance because they're looking for something to attack them over.

Not looking well enough. See http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...eralt-grows-a-beard.80281/page-7#post-2491895 from someone who actually likes CD Projekt and hates Bioware.

Tell me, is any representation worthwhile, even negative representation? You should be very familiar with this question. Do you find it insulting that when we see transgendered characters in games, they're usually played up for laughs, or are put in roles like prostitution? What about when your "deep and meaningful romance" between two men or two women is basically soap opera schlock? Is that worth cheering BioWare on over? To me, it's rather pathetic and exploitative, and I find it kind of sad and hilarious that anyone would latch onto that as "progressive."

Bioware can be pretty fauxgressive or outright regressive at times. They still do okay sometimes and are better about it than most, even Lesi had to swallow and acknowledge this once:

I suppose Bioware’s remarkable in that it’s about the only developer who releases games that do give you options to be gay or chromatic rather than forced into a static Straight White Guy 100% of the time, though of course with the promo materials focusing on white dudes it’s a case of having their cake and eating it too. But even if they were totally sincere it still doesn’t take away their fails or the giant turd that is Jade Empire.
...

BioWare is ‘one of the most inclusive and minority-friendly’ developers in the video game industry. That’s what makes it so depressing.

Yep. The depressing part is why I’m not fond of falling all over myself to applaud Bioware as “doing it right” and being one of the “good ones,” because it isn’t doing it right, and it isn’t one of the good ones. It’s more a matter of being less shitty, but still shitty.

So charming.

 

[Jick Magger]

The funny thing is that one of Gaider's defences for the lack of interchangeable and visible armour in DA2 was because it was easier to cosplay when your characters only wear one costume.

 

[sea]

All right if one absolutely must have one, it must a) be absolutely relevant and b) not repel women.

a) What constitutes "absolutely relevant"?
b) What does "not repel women" mean? Are you asserting that women are a hivemind?

You're a man, you can't be a feminist.

You're a woman, you belong in the kitchen.

You're black, you belong in a field picking cotton.

You're old, you belong in a grave.

What a progressive attitude from such an enlightened individual as yourself.

There's porn for women. Copy that. Dragon Age: Origins did.

What makes something "porn for women"? Why is Dragon Age "porn for women"? Give specific examples and details. It's not "porn for women" just because you say it is; you have to provide arguments and evidence which sufficiently pertain to your point. If you don't, it's called "talking out of your ass."

Also you're ignoring Bethesda and Obsidian.

Obsidian feature little to no sex in their games. The closest they've got is Alpha Protocol. Bethesda has no sex except for a fade-to-black you can do with a prostitute in Fallout 3. How progressive.

So is your argument basically "games shouldn't have sex scenes because those resources could be better spent elsewhere"? Please, explain why that is the case. Why is sex not important but X or Y story elements or events are instead? Does this come down to the fact that you think sex in media is inherently voyeuristic or pornographic, or is it because nobody has simply been able to implement it very well yet?

 

[DalekFlay]

"Porn for women" 'cause all women think alike. They all like soft caresses and candlelight, yup. Not one of them likes ass slapping and rough fucking while they're bent over a counter, nope. That's just crazy talk.

 

[DragoFireheart]

"Porn for women" 'cause all women think alike. They all like soft caresses and candlelight, yup. Not one of them likes ass slapping and rough fucking while they're bent over a counter, nope. That's just crazy talk.

I was under the impression all women liked both of the above and the only difference is how well some of them can hide it.

 

[DalekFlay]

I was under the impression all women liked both of the above and the only difference is how well some of them can hide it.

In my random sex days I actually came across more women who hated the soft shit than I did the opposite. Yes though, overall I think everyone has varied tastes and both genders are insanely diverse in likes and dislikes. That's why "porn for women" is a stupid concept.

 

[evdk]

Have you ever seen LARPERs? Those short swords look like foam swords.
(a pic)

That's an Ork skull in the Omnissiah Cog. The hell?

 

[DragoFireheart]

I was under the impression all women liked both of the above and the only difference is how well some of them can hide it.

In my random sex days I actually came across more women who hated the soft shit than I did the opposite. Yes though, overall I think everyone has varied tastes and both genders are insanely diverse in likes and dislikes. That's why "porn for women" is a stupid concept.

How many women have you come across that don't like cuddling?

How many women like a romantic evening but like wild sex after the candles are blown out?

 

[Necroscope]

There's porn for women. Copy that. Dragon Age: Origins did.

I have a friend who laugh her ass off at this "porn for women". Her favourite ME character is TiM and Jack (that was before ME3, of course). Angelina Jolie scarified herself with a knife and once wallpapered her house with porn [for men] magazines.

I actually know a lot of women who loathe feminists due to shit like the above that they spread about all the other women.

 

[JarlFrank]

I actually know a lot of women who loathe feminists due to shit like the above that they spread about all the other women.

One girl I know from uni said she dislikes modern feminism because it's retarded. The point has always been to create equality but nowadays it's all about giving women positions they don't deserve just because they're women, like the infamous women's quota at workplaces. It's just fucking stupid.

But then again, she's a history student and those are mostly sane. For every one of these, there are at least two sociology and/or politology students... and the less said about those kinds of people the better.

 

[Data4]

I actually know a lot of women who loathe feminists due to shit like the above that they spread about all the other women.

One girl I know from uni said she dislikes modern feminism because it's retarded. The point has always been to create equality but nowadays it's all about giving women positions they don't deserve just because they're women, like the infamous women's quota at workplaces. It's just fucking stupid.

But then again, she's a history student and those are mostly sane. For every one of these, there are at least two sociology and/or politology students... and the less said about those kinds of people the better.

I've noticed that the more hardcore a feminist is, the less feminine they are. There's nothing like the dichotomy of a mullet sporting bulldyke preaching about the virtues of feminism.

 

[Tommy Wiseau]

The more radical a feminist is, the uglier I assume she is.

 

[DalekFlay]

One girl I know from uni said she dislikes modern feminism because it's retarded. The point has always been to create equality but nowadays it's all about giving women positions they don't deserve just because they're women, like the infamous women's quota at workplaces. It's just fucking stupid.

I would more say the point was equality but a lot of modern women twist "equality" meaning eradicating gender difference, which is 1) stupid, and 2) impossible.