Dragon Age Dragon Age: The Veilguard - coming October 31st

[Elttharion]

What I also got away from Busche is that she sounds like a snob and that she doesn't seem to have it in her to write something bolt, intricate and gripping.

Why do you refer to this man as a "she"?

 

[PunchYouInTheFace]

A recent headline:

The person who wrote this article also think Skyrim and Dragon Age Inquisition is "Best RPGs on PC", and he doesn't even list DAO.

I don't know, the combat in Veilguard does lean a bit heavily to Action and Mass Effect-esque system, but I am willing to compromise if the differential in the game actually matters not just mentioned in passing (DAO), doesn't exist (DA2) or give you occasionally inconsequential options (DAI).

 

[Modron]

I don't know, the combat in Veilguard does lean a bit heavily to Action and Mass Effect-esque system, but I am willing to compromise if the differential in the game actually matters not just mentioned in passing (DAO), doesn't exist (DA2) or give you occasionally inconsequential options (DAI).

It's a safe bet that the combat system will lean towards action because Mass Effect 3 multiplayer was surprisingly successful and EA/Bioware have been trying to replicate that ever since.

 

[Cael]

The main thing that stood out to me was them not so subtly shitting all over the stories, companions and combat of all the previous Dragon Age games.

A recent headline:

View attachment 52522

This is really classless shit. Not only does saying stuff like this makes you look like a clown, it also disrespects everyone that worked on the previous games, and the IP as a whole. If you, the developer, say shit like "yeah well, now we're making a good game," it reeks of desperation.

Not to mention that when it comes out and combat is bad, people are going to roast you.

Modern day marketers man, the second they realize they can't twitter bot their way to success they just flail wildly.

they're like protestants

I protest that statement!

Wait...

 

[Space Satan]

Veilguard is marvellously following steps of other AAA masterpieces.
- Hey, CEO Shlomo Pedoshtein, they\xir, you heared how extraction shooters are popular nowdays among teenagers?
- Sure does, CEO Shmuley Incestsman, she\him, kids nowdays also seem to adore shooters like overwatch and valorant
- Shareholders would be DELIGHTED knwoing we are doint the most curren thing with our game!

Hyeanas, Concord and a plethora other dead on arrival crap setted so perectly with veilguard. Absolutely forgettable companions, shovelware models, battle sponge combat. The amount of how talentless they are is fantastical.

Ah, I remember how fun it was when DAI biodrones fearfully awaited Witcher 3 release, because at that time it became obvious how shallow and shitty DAI was. It is the same with Baldur's Gate 3 but now it is an abyss and biowhores are content with "But we have much much much more fagoots and men dresed as women!".
My shadenfreude demands to be fed! Can't wait for autumn.
Main discussion board does not disappoint as well:

 

[Elttharion]

Interesting, not sure if this is news

 

[Tyranicon]

Interesting, not sure if this is news

So... not wannabe romance novelists?

I'm also not sure when was the last time BioWare had "good writing," at best they were charming shlock, leading to a period of not charming shlock, leading to really bad corporate-headed nonsense.

So this really isn't the flex they think it is.

Yeah, dunk on them, Chris.

 

[Space Satan]

They had a good plots and stories for motivations. Like in BG2 you are motivated to pursue Sarevok no matter what alignment you had. In Mass Effect and Dragon Age: Origins you had existential threat. Later on it all became a cringefest, culminating in a spanish shame inducing Inquisition song.

 

[Tyranicon]

They had a good plots and stories for motivations. Like in BG2 you are motivated to pursue Sarevok no matter what alignment you had. In Mass Effect and Dragon Age: Origins you had existential threat. Later on it all became a cringefest, culminating in a spanish shame inducing Inquisition song.

For me, saying a style of writing is "beneath" you implies a high level of elitism and superiority that BioWare has absolutely not earned, even with their best work, which is thoroughly workhorse "entertainment product" level stuff. They are not "in it for the art" and they have never presented themselves that way.

Of course, I have no idea what Avellone means here since the tweet is super vague. Seems like he's just throwing more shit at BioWare, which I approve. Maybe his recent troubles and the fact that few very people stood by his side, made him realize that the entire industry is clout-chasing idiots led by corporate suits.

 

[Aarwolf]

I'm also not sure when was the last time BioWare had "good writing," at best they were charming shlock, leading to a period of not charming shlock, leading to really bad corporate-headed nonsense.

There are traces of good writing in Mass Effect (genophage conundrum for example), but mostly stories were perfectly serviceable and good for what they were - adventures in a land far far away. It ended sometime in late 2000s.

 

[PunchYouInTheFace]

"beneath"

Let's not to take anything that Chris' wrote as truth just because it's aligned with what you've already believed in.

BG2

Mass Effect

BG2 was a great because BG1 was such a low bar to exceed. Especially in late 90s/Early 00s - it's a Dark Age, people were hitting sticks and rocks to make their brain neurons flares up.

Main discussion

You know that it's profitable to rage bait on steam right?

 

[Heroic Liberator]

BG2 was a great because BG1 was such a low bar to exceed.

I personally prefer BG1 for its low level adventure coziness. BG2 is decent too for what it is, but the game feels a bit disjointed imho and Irenicus is somewhat overrated of an antagonist (not to say that Sarevok in BG1 is more interesting of a character, but he serves his narrative purpose of being a simple villain for a simple story).

 

[Wulfric Pinewood]

I wonder who the fuck is still in Bioware since Baldur's Gate 1 or 2 ? It looks like it was taken by band of cunts and youtubers.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

I wonder who the fuck is still in Bioware since Baldur's Gate 1 or 2 ? It looks like it was taken by band of cunts and youtubers.

You can look through the credits here.

 

[PunchYouInTheFace]

I personally prefer BG1 for its low level adventure coziness. BG2 is decent too for what it is, but the game feels a bit disjointed imho and Irenicus is somewhat overrated of an antagonist (not to say that Sarevok in BG1 is more interesting of a character, but he serves his narrative purpose of being a simple villain for a simple story).

I don't because it's... barebones. I don't mind simple (low level etc.), I like simple, I like Fallout more than Fallout 2, but BG1 is less than simple to me, it's barebones.

If I had to chose I'd pick Amelyssan over Irenicus, maybe I just enjoy ToB more than SoA a little bit more. But between Irenicus and Sarevok, for me it's clear, Irenicus clears Sarevok by a mile, I don't even understand what Sarevok wants from what the game tells me except that he is planning a coup.

 

[Tyranicon]

Irenicus is somewhat overrated of an antagonist

I would assume that most of the appeal of Irenicus is his bad ass voice. Voice actors can elevate characters far above their qualities otherwise.

 

[PunchYouInTheFace]

cunts and youtubers

credits

This: https://www.mobygames.com/game/2465/baldurs-gate-ii-shadows-of-amn/

Ray Muzyka - not a developer more of a management guy. Left in 2012.
Greg Zeschuk - left in 2012
James Ohlen - left in 2021
David Gaider - Left in 2016
Brent Knowles - Left in 2019
Lukas Kristjanson - Left in 2023 (part of the last lay off, worked on Dreadwolf/Veilguard)
John Winski - Left in 2012
Rob Bartel - Left in 2012 (currently employed by the Government of Alberta lol)
John Gallagher - Left in late 2000s (probably)
Mark Darrah - Left in 2021 (still involved in Dreadwold/Veilguard).

So, to answer your question: BioWare has always been "cunt and youtubers".

 

[Heroic Liberator]

I personally prefer BG1 for its low level adventure coziness. BG2 is decent too for what it is, but the game feels a bit disjointed imho and Irenicus is somewhat overrated of an antagonist (not to say that Sarevok in BG1 is more interesting of a character, but he serves his narrative purpose of being a simple villain for a simple story).

I don't because it's... barebones. I don't mind simple (low level etc.), I like simple, I like Fallout more than Fallout 2, but BG1 is less than simple to me, it's barebones.

If I had to chose I'd pick Amelyssan over Irenicus, maybe I just enjoy ToB more than SoA a little bit more. But between Irenicus and Sarevok, for me it's clear, Irenicus clears Sarevok by a mile, I don't even understand what Sarevok wants from what the game tells me except that he is planning a coup.

Dunno, perhaps I'm being nostalgic since I haven't replayed those games in a very long time. Should probably revisit the series to see if perhaps my views on the matter have changed, but for now I still hold that BG1 > BG2 > ToB. ToB felt the most barebones of the bunch to me, with a lot of combat and not much else (although the narrative stuff it had was decent enough and I think that the ending was a good conclusion for the PC's story). And yeah, I agree that Irenicus is the better character.

As for Sarevok's plans in BG1, he wanted to incite a war between Baldur's Gate and Amn since he believed that the ensuing massacre would result in his ascension and the coup was his way of putting himself in a position of leadership in order to pursue said conflict. His falling out with the broader Iron Throne was due to the latter only wanting to use the deteriorating situation as a means towards entrenching themselves within Baldur's Gate while ultimately still averting the war.

 

[darkpatriot]

Damnit, I don't know what I expected!



Are they really going to stick with the "no attractive females to romance" principle they started doing since DA:I and Andromeda? Why do this Bioware? Why?

Also, Dreadwolf was a much better name.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Irenicus is somewhat overrated of an antagonist

I would assume that most of the appeal of Irenicus is his bad ass voice. Voice actors can elevate characters far above their qualities otherwise.

He's also more of a tragic figure I guess, although his original fall was of his own doing and he ends up just doubling down on his hubris rather than repenting with his subsequent pursuits (and he gets called out for it in SoA's conclusion if I recall correctly). Meanwhile Sarevok is just a guy who wants power for power's sake. Nothing fancy about his motives, but not every piece of fiction needs some complex antagonist. And I think ToB does a good job of fleshing out his character without trying to paint his earlier actions in a different light as some sort of soft retcon. Sarevok's story in ToB is just about him coming to terms with his past failures while acknowledging from the getgo that there's no way to return to the prior status quo as to have another go at it (a.i. fulfilling the Bhaalspawn prophecy in his case). Basically the exact opposite of Irenicus. Funny how the simple villain ends up being the wiser guy in the end, eh?

 

[DemonKing]

Who?

(To be fair Brain Bloom seems familiar but no idea WTF the rest are)

 

[PunchYouInTheFace]

no attractive females to romance

Sucks to be you, Cora was a fantastic in Andromeda and Cassandra was fantastic in Inquisition.

I'd probably locked in for Harding's bunda but we'll see if other characters has better story/personality.

But, I get that BioWare probably should've made an obvious catch-all characters like Shadowheart, that raven haired (whyte) woman that satisfy the general gamer(tm). Probably a missed opportunity, but we'll see.

Dreadwolf

Agreed.

 

[Silverfish]

Cassandra was fantastic.

 

[Zeriel]

Irenicus is somewhat overrated of an antagonist

I would assume that most of the appeal of Irenicus is his bad ass voice. Voice actors can elevate characters far above their qualities otherwise.

He's also more of a tragic figure I guess, although his original fall was of his own doing and he ends up just doubling down on his hubris rather than repenting with his subsequent pursuits (and he gets called out for it in SoA's conclusion if I recall correctly). Meanwhile Sarevok is just a guy who wants power for power's sake. Nothing fancy about his motives, but not every piece of fiction needs some complex antagonist. And I think ToB does a good job of fleshing out his character without trying to paint his earlier actions in a different light as some sort of soft retcon. Sarevok's story in ToB is just about him coming to terms with his past failures while acknowledging from the getgo that there's no way to return to the prior status quo as to have another go at it (a.i. fulfilling the Bhaalspawn prophecy in his case). Basically the exact opposite of Irenicus. Funny how the simple villain ends up being the wiser guy in the end, eh?

I think the point of sympathy with Sarevok is supposed to be his birth/raising. In BG1 this is explicitly compared to the MC, who was also "of tainted seed", but was raised in a much more wholesome environment. It's basically nature vs nurture encapsulated. So Sarevok was put in a shitty situation and turns out to be an asshole as a result.

If anything I find Sarevok far more relatable than Irenicus. Possibly the issue with Irenicus is he does all this horrible shit to you and never seems aware of his complete lack of justification, and you only find out about his "tragic backstory" (which isn't even that tragic) at the very last part of the game. So by then your view of him is already cemented.

Also from a ludic perspective, Irenicus's role in the game is a lot of cutscenes that distract the player with no ability to have agency against it. The only "agency robbing" cutscene Sarevok has is the first one that is basically the intro anyway, so Sarevok has a lot less player ill-will built up towards him based on him dicking you over in cutscenes where you can't do anything. Irenicus's style of storytelling is much more emblematic of where the industry eventually went, I suppose.

Reminds me of joking with a friend about Mass Effect 3's storyline when it came out. It instantly jacks you onto the railroad and doesn't let you off. This pisses people off. Not being allowed agency in a videogame, or the illusion of agency, is highly insulting and will make people hate a narrative more than they would otherwise regardless of the quality of the writing.

Hell, now that I think about it... even the ending. Look at how Irenicus is handled. YOU don't kill him, he is just teleported to the Abyss, where he "suffers" the fate he deserves... but really he's still "alive" and it feels like a complete waste of your time, like you never did anything to him. Meanwhile Sarevok is just another NPC after the intro cinematic, and the fight with him canonically kills him with no going back, as if he's just another person in the setting (good!), this only being later revoked somewhat by the ToB expansion mod that let you revive him. This is classic "you're just here to play a role, puppet player, now be a good boy and watch our plans unfold" writing that I figure we mostly experienced first as a JRPG trope, but became cemented in western gaming in the later console eras, and which a lot of people (myself included) completely despise.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Cora was a fantastic in Andromeda and Cassandra was fantastic.

I'd probably locked in for Harding's bunda but we'll see if other characters has better story/personality.

From DAI's romances, I liked...

Spoiler

Dorian's.

For DATV, it'll probably be either Neve or Emmrich. Perhaps Bellara if she's not too goofy.