Durrr, Jagged Alliance 2 combat is HARD

[MisterStone]

I've been playing for a week or so... I got one game going, but when it took me two weeks to take over the first SAM site I decided that I should probably start over again now that I had learned more or less how to play the game. So, like the stupid sadist that I am, I chose to play it in Ironman, Expert mode with Tons of Guns option.

I love the combat in this game which is turn based, but manages to simulate all kinds of real-life situations fairly accurately. Sometimes it gets to be pretty hilarious- for example yesterday I was attacking the first airport with a party of three characters. They had finally killed off all but one guy, were all shot up and bandaged up multiple times, short on ammo, etc. Finally, they came across the last guy on the airstrip. They shot the guy up really badly at close range, but he did not drop; he pulled out a knife and bum rushed the group. One of my guys (who was barely standing after suffering blood loss and wounds) sprayed him with the beretta machine pistol at close range, but every single shot missed! The next turn, the fucker stabbed one of my guys dead and had the other guy within one hit point of dead... which was pretty much the same thing since there were no medics left in the party at that point. I had to quit for a while at this point.

The combat in this game is beautiful- I wish that more traditional RPGs could use something like this, but I doubt that we will ever see another game with combat nearly as complex as this in the near future (unless from an indy dev). It makes me sad to realize that almost no one these days has the patience to learn how to play a game like this. Or maybe I am wrong?

I wish there were fantasy games that had combat as complex as this. ToEE was pretty close but even it does not really approach this game in terms of realism and complexity- and on top of the the main game was still so horribly mangled its not even worth messing with IMHO. I guess the closest thing after that is Tom Proudfoot's Natuk, which has pretty cool squad combat- again, not as complex as JA2 or the like, but still pretty fun.

 

[Livonya]

In my opinion, JA2 is one of the best computer games ever made.

It amazes me that it hasn't spawned tons of games using a similar system.

The simple turn based system is so amazingly good. The voice acting is awesome.

And as you noted, it is damn hard.

When ToEE was in production it really seemed like it was going to be the D&D version of JA2. If Troika had finished the game engine then it might have come close.

It is too bad that graphics have somehow become more important than game play.

- Livonya

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

Can someone tell me what was JoWooD thinking when they published Silent Storm - God damn, when you compare JA2 to SS it comes out really weak.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

In my opinion, JA2 is one of the best computer games ever made.

It makes a pretty strong run at being the undisputed best.

 

[Lightknight]

Can someone tell me what was JoWooD thinking

Who ?

 

[Worm King]

I've never played JA. The modern setting turned me off. What makes it so great?

 

[Dark Matter]

Jagged Alliance 2 has the best combat system in any game I've played.

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

Can someone tell me what was JoWooD thinking

Who ?

Sorry my mistake. They published it.

 

[Korgan]

Everyone who doesn't have the 1.13 mod should strongly consider getting it. Highly customizable, fucktons (FUCKTONS) of equipment, all-new optional features, a noticeably smarter AI that tries to work together and flank you, etc.

 

[Burning Bridges]

In my opinion, JA2 is one of the best computer games ever made.

It makes a pretty strong run at being the undisputed best.

I would say gameplaywise, JA2 is really the best.

I've never played JA. The modern setting turned me off. What makes it so great?

I was also, especially in my younger years, often turned off by games for being fps, scifi, mainstream or similar reasons. It's a mistake.

 

[Jazper]

I'm glad your playing ironman, it's the only way Jagged Alliance 2 should be played!

I've managed to complete ironman on novice mode. The game did get quite easy once my mercs were fully equipped with assault rifles. My main strategy was long-range fire fights during the daylight hours. As soon as one of my Mercs took a bullet I pulled them out to a safe sector. I tried expert a couple of times but normally got wiped out at the second city.

You might wanna consider the 1.13 patch like Korgan said. If I remember correctly there is an option to unlock all the weapons at Bobby Ray's from the start of the game, expert should actually be do-able this way, but still ball-breaking hard. I was gonna do an LP on ironman expert, maybe you should try it!

 

[Draconis]

I played it for the first time one month ago, it is definitely one of the best games I have ever played. I was simply blown away by everything.

However, I did play with the 1.13 patch and perhaps that was a mistake for a first timer, I didn't find out until after I had started the game that it was a mod, oh well.

 

[goatvomit]

If things seem too hard during the day try taking out the sectors with some nightop mercs and silenced submachineguns. Getting some night vision gear helps a lot as well. At least that has been the easiest route for me. With 1.13 you can have some real nice battles in Drassen.

 

[Ion Flux]

I still play this game (or mods of it) more than any other. It's gobs of fun and can be made to be really challenging. I think it has one of the best character attribute systems of any game ever, despite the fact that it's really a strategy game and not a pure RPG.

 

[quasimodo]

It has the best TB combat in any game to date.

It has a large cast of well done RPC's. Better than most RPG's.

It is as non-linear as a game can get. Your job is to free the country, you can go about it anyway you please.

These things make it extremely replayable. Not to mention it has one of the most devout modding community out there.

 

[coaster]

A trip to GOG is sounding tempting. Like Worm King I'm not a fan of the modern setting, but am willing to overlook it if it's so good.

How's 2 compare to the first one? Should I play the first for completeness/plot reasons (or just because it's good as well)? Are the addons (Deadly Games, Unfinished Business) also worth a punt?

 

[spectre]

Another starting combo for 1.13 - make yourself a sniper IMP merc - he should get a 7x scope as starting gear. Then, hire another merc with something 5.56-powered, with decent range (20 and above).
With the scope alone, you get a decent detection device, and range 20 means you can outshoot most early enemies. Just make sure to secure your sniper's flanks. 1.13 AI is really quick to exploit your getting cocky (-:

I find this way even easier than Night Ops attacks. Though these are fun as well, so I recommend these as well.

I agree wholeheartedly, Ja2 is well worth getting over relatively minor stuff like aversion to modern setting. Combat mechanics are superb (and deceptively complex), characterisation is top notch. The game would really lose quite a lot without all the characters, mers etc. On top of that, it's very sandbox.

Damn, shame I already know the maps by heart (-:

EDIT: IMO you don't have to beat Ja1 to enjoy the second. You'll miss some references perhaps, but it doesn't diminish the goodness.

As for Unfinished Business, personally I don't like it, mainly because it got too linear for my tastes and the economical aspect is largely gone. I would recommend trying a mod instead, though it is not "bad" in any way.

 

[A user named cat]

JA 2 would've been awesome even if it was nothing but one long sitcom of Elliot fucking up and getting slapped.

 

[Nedrah]

Turns out I don't remember shit about how to play the game. I think I played it when it was relatively new, but really, it's all gone.

So, I need a getting-started kind of guide, especially for JA 1.13.

 

[BethesdaLove]

Played vanilla. After the first 2 cities its a rinse and repeat crap because the a.i sucks donkey cock. Your strategy is then all the same. Hide behind walls and shoot or better yet - climb on a roof...
Being hard is not a quality because you are outnumbered and outgunned. It forces you to use exploits like hiding in a house and shoot out of windows.
Boring missions - wipe everything out.

Can someone tell me what was JoWooD thinking when they published Silent Storm - God damn, when you compare JA2 to SS it comes out really weak.

Why? Same shit, different day. Actually SSS>JA2

I've never played JA. The modern setting turned me off. What makes it so great?

Fanboyizm

I'm glad your playing ironman, it's the only way Jagged Alliance 2 should be played!
I've managed to complete ironman on novice mode. The game did get quite easy once my mercs were fully equipped with assault rifles. My main strategy was long-range fire fights during the daylight hours. As soon as one of my Mercs took a bullet I pulled them out to a safe sector.

Glad you are playing ironman and cheating. Way to go, fag.

It has the best TB combat in any game to date.

X-Com is better. Because the game is shorter and weapon progression faster and it even has a tactics changing moments with Psi, Blasters, Tanks, Heavy Armor.And! it has so groundbreaking features like percentage to hit!


Played 1.13. A.I now flanks you. Climbs roofs. Enters houses. Percentage to hit was implemented. The crappy viewangle is now viewable... All that doesnt change the fact that the "clean the map with the same old tactic" is boring after 5 cities because the weapon and character progression slow down.

 

[Jaime Lannister]

"It forces you to use exploits like hiding in a house and shoot out of windows."

How is that an exploit?

 

[spectre]

Poor Troll BethesdaLove.

Fanboyizm

Try harder.

X-Com is better. Because the game is shorter and weapon progression faster and it even has a tactics changing moments with Psi, Blasters, Tanks, Heavy Armor.And! it has so groundbreaking features like percentage to hit!

Too bad once you get psi and train your soldiers in PSI lab a bit, it's pretty much over. And % to hit was a flat number, unaffected by range.
Doesn't make Xcom a bad game though.

Glad you are playing ironman and cheating. Way to go, fag.

How the fuck is withdrawing wounded troops cheating? Enlighten me.

Why? Same shit, different day. Actually SSS>JA2

Engine is better. That's about it.

All that doesnt change the fact that the "clean the map with the same old tactic" is boring after 5 cities because the weapon and character progression slow down.

Poor lad, you realize that you can *gasp* change tactics if you get bored? There's a few to choose from actually.
Also, that after 5 cities it's time to win the damned game. And if you're bored with the process, your objective is to kill Deidrianna, so you can rush for Meduna.

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

Uhhh...wow...I'm totally walking into a troll, but like minefields in third world countries,the only way to clear it out is to send someone in.

Played vanilla. After the first 2 cities its a rinse and repeat crap because the a.i sucks donkey cock.

After the first two cities? Which ones? If you mean Omerta and Drassen or Drassen and Chitzena you're dead wrong. The game becomes much different.

Your strategy is then all the same. Hide behind walls and shoot or better yet - climb on a roof...

That works in the first two/three cities. Then you need to think a little more, because it doesn't work against a lot of things. Like any of the SAM sites. Or the door to door (or room to room in the University) combat in Cambria. Or clearing the warehouses in Grumm. Or the Tixa prison. Or the Alma military base. Or the secret research facility. Or anywhere with snipers, mortar teams, grenadiers, gas use, mines, rocket launchers, or entrenched foes. Which pretty much is everywhere besides the introductory areas and the Queen's green patrols. Play a little further, it is definitely different.

Being hard is not a quality because you are outnumbered and outgunned.

Ummmm...what? That's kind of the point of the game; you command a small squad of elite mercenaries to take on a third world despot and her forces with guerrilla tactics and more tactical know-how. That's where the challenge comes in; using superior tactics to make up for inferior numbers, and sometimes inferior weaponry.

It forces you to use exploits like hiding in a house and shoot out of windows.

You mean, use cover? How's that an "exploit"?

 

[Zhuangzi]

It has the best TB combat in any game to date.

That's pretty much all that needs to be said.

 

[Lord_Summoner]

I miss only one thing... option to replay your battle in real time... I mean, after battle you will just sit down and enjoy great shootout... with sounds from 1.13 it could be awesome