Durrr, Jagged Alliance 2 combat is HARD

[Gnidrologist]

There are lots of freak accidents, where you loose your merc after interrupts of some camping fucker, because you didn't feel like scanning ther sector square by square using a supporting merc to cover the pointman. Of course, you can say that it's my own fault, but it really becomes tedious after the 20th sector or so. If you don't save and reload in all those cases, having 20 mercs gunned down by the midgame isn't an indicator of sucktitude, just carelessness.

 

[Zomg]

Every couple of years I get the urge up to ironman JA2 again and I actually get jazzed to see the unfunny NPCs get killed before I get sick of exploiting spotting, night tactics and interrupts by the third or fourth map. If anyone has made a mod of JA2 to kill off the rampant anticomedy and maybe swap in X-Com style recruiting I'd probably be a lot more enthusiastic about talking up the game.

 

[The_scorpion]

So is there some simple way to set all or most enemies to cautious (Aid)?

Not that I'm aware of. You'd have to edit each map by hand unless you could find someone to write a program to edit that specific part of the map file.

cunning aid isn't always great for the enemy AI to have. It depends a lot on how the map looks like and in what progression of the gameplay you are and ultimativly, what your gameplay style is. Ja2 can be played in a variety of ways, so that depending on who plays, the AI would have to act differently.

Also in 1.13, which many people are using, cunning Aid is less effective for the AI to have due to the monster snipers and spotting range that reduce the effects of cover used by the AI.

Also sometimes it's better to leave enemy sniper cunning solo rather than cunning aid. Calling in support, the support might run into open space while trying to reach their entrenched buddy and become sitting ducks for the player.

The most effective enemy placement is probably to have them point patrol from cover to cover, but that sometimes results in unintuitive gameplay and makes it too hard for the ironman guys.

An example of how different maps can play is ja2 vengeance, where often the AI was set up in a less random way. In turn, this can cause frustration too :-(

 

[MisterStone]

I wouldn't say all the NPCs suck- ones I like so far (in terms of voice acting): Bull, Steroid, Gasket. Ones I don't like: the rest I have come across. Especially Ira- I'd almost get her purposely killed if she weren't so useful for training militia. Also, I've got this alcoholic doctor guy in my party and I can't tell if the voice acting is supposed to make him sound Scottish or Australia. Makes me want to gag.

As a side note, I have found that the enemy tactics are getting easier to deal with. IF the game didn't force me to run around with fricking pistols for the first week of gameplay or so, it would be pretty easy to kick everything's ass with hide and wait tactics, roof camping, etc. I think that I have this game installed from a CD that was part of a pack of other non JA games, so I might not have the expansions though. It is almost tempting to just go ahead and install the 1.13 mod, just to see how the AI improves. Still, it's a fun and satisfying game.

 

[Lightknight]

IF the game didn't force me to run around with fricking pistols for the first week of gameplay or so

Noone is forcing you to do anything. Did you think of going, for instance, to Alma right away, to get good guns ? Hell, you can even get a rocket rifle there if you're especially good. Also Conrad, whom you can throttle for an assault rifle (i almost always got AKs on him, except for one time)

 

[Zhuangzi]

I *always* use Ira as cannon fodder in Drassen. Can't stand her. :twisted:

The alcoholic doctor is Clifford Highball, I think. Isn't he South African?

And I wouldn't kill Conrad, not even for a rocket rifle. He's pricey but one of the best mercs in the game. Funny too. "No bullets...need better planning."

 

[MisterStone]

I *always* use Ira as cannon fodder in Drassen. Can't stand her. :twisted:

The alcoholic doctor is Clifford Highball, I think. Isn't he South African?

Hmm, so I wonder what happens if highball and blood (the black south african who used to fight for the ANC are in the same party? :twisted:

 

[spectre]

IF the game didn't force me to run around with fricking pistols for the first week of gameplay or so,

As said, you're not forced to do stuff here (-: It's waay trickier in vanilla, but in 1.13 just go for the nearest airport and do some shopping at bobby rays (after setting his stock to something higher than default value).
If you want long range boomsticks from the very beginning, just hire mercs who got some for a single day.
If you think shopping like this is waay to overpowered, limit yourself to buying used stuff only (it's makes for a nice challenge btw).

 

[denizsi]

IF the game didn't force me to run around with fricking pistols for the first week of gameplay or so

I usually end up with Mini-14s, and short to mid range rifles like SPAS or AKSU by the end of day 1, and sometimes even a laser pointer and a scope. Enemy encounters on the road provide great resources. Especially Alma as mentioned.

I also hire from MERC for transporting items. I move MERC mercs around all the time to pick up items dropped in encounters and sectors, and stockpile all items in a few sectors. This way, new mercs I hire will get immediate access to everything they might need, and everything else I don't need becomes quick cash soon enough.

I wouldn't say all the NPCs suck- ones I like so far (in terms of voice acting): Bull, Steroid, Gasket. Ones I don't like: the rest I have come across. Especially Ira- I'd almost get her purposely killed if she weren't so useful for training militia.

I like Steroid's lines. "Evil Peoples!". He really shines when you have "commies" (Ivan or Igor, or worse, both of them) on the same squad.

I love Reaper. He has a sick and disturbed air about him, with intricate lines. I especially like his line when a sector is cleared. He's about the only top-of-the-line merc with pleasing lines. I can't remember all of them now, but most other star mercs sound just cocky or cheesy.

Buns is also kind of cute, I like her Eureopan accent and her choice of words. What's nicer, I like how Buns despise Reaper. You gotta try having the two on the same squad. Buns also gets into a female clash with Fox, and I think she might be racist. I remember her complaining whenever I hired a black Merc (Magic, Blood, Ice). Good thing is, she's no nonsense, she won't refuse prolonged deals just because there are other mercs she don't like on the ship.

Ira indeed is terribly annoying. I hate her voice when she says "The army! I knew they'd sooner or later show up!". Damn fucking bitch.

For real laughing material, try hiring from MERC. They got such a weirdos with bizarre speech, especially the moronic duo that's Razor and Haywire.

For extras, trying hiring the complete MERC line up, and don't bother yourself with trying to keep them alive.

There are many more dynamics of course, some I probably don't even know. Be sure to experiment.

 

[Zhuangzi]

IF the game didn't force me to run around with fricking pistols for the first week of gameplay or so

I usually end up with Mini-14s, and short to mid range rifles like SPAS or AKSU by the end of day 1, and sometimes even a laser pointer and a scope. Enemy encounters on the road provide great resources. Especially Alma as mentioned.

I also hire from MERC for transporting items. I move MERC mercs around all the time to pick up items dropped in encounters and sectors, and stockpile all items in a few sectors. This way, new mercs I hire will get immediate access to everything they might need, and everything else I don't need becomes quick cash soon enough.

I wouldn't say all the NPCs suck- ones I like so far (in terms of voice acting): Bull, Steroid, Gasket. Ones I don't like: the rest I have come across. Especially Ira- I'd almost get her purposely killed if she weren't so useful for training militia.

I like Steroid's lines. "Evil Peoples!". He really shines when you have "commies" (Ivan or Igor, or worse, both of them) on the same squad.

I love Reaper. He has a sick and disturbed air about him, with intricate lines. I especially like his line when a sector is cleared. He's about the only top-of-the-line merc with pleasing lines. I can't remember all of them now, but most other star mercs sound just cocky or cheesy.

Buns is also kind of cute, I like her Eureopan accent and her choice of words. What's nicer, I like how Buns despise Reaper. You gotta try having the two on the same squad. Buns also gets into a female clash with Fox, and I think she might be racist. I remember her complaining whenever I hired a black Merc (Magic, Blood, Ice).

Ira indeed is terribly annoying. I hate her voice when she says "The army! I knew they'd sooner or later show up!". Damn fucking bitch.

For real laughing material, try hiring from MERC. They got such a weirdos with bizarre speech, especially the moronic duo that's Razor and Haywire.

For extras, trying hiring the complete MERC line up, and don't bother yourself with trying to keep them alive.

Yeah, I like Buns too. But Barry is the best - great all around merc, cheap, and some of the best lines in the game.

 

[Higher Game]

I also hire from MERC for transporting items. I move MERC mercs around all the time to pick up items dropped in encounters and sectors, and stockpile all items in a few sectors. This way, new mercs I hire will get immediate access to everything they might need, and everything else I don't need becomes quick cash soon enough.

I've tried to use MERC guys as transporters, but they always end up losing some nice gear to a bloodcat.

I love Reaper. He has a sick and disturbed air about him, with intricate lines. I especially like his line when a sector is cleared. He's about the only top-of-the-line merc with pleasing lines. I can't remember all of them now, but most other star mercs sound just cocky or cheesy.

No way. Reaper's the obnoxiously cocky guy, thinking that fate itself shines its bountiful glory solely upon him. The coolest super merc is Gus, no question about it. Magic's also fun to have.

I remember her complaining whenever I hired a black Merc (Magic, Blood, Ice).

Magic is black? That hair of his is more of a Jewfro.

Ira indeed is terribly annoying. I hate her voice when she says "The army! I knew they'd sooner or later show up!". Damn fucking bitch.

She's a teacher, that's it. I can't stand to use her in combat. At least Dmitri, in spite of forgetfulness, can throw knives and grenades like a pro. Ira's just too mediocre both stat wise and voice acting wise to use.

 

[denizsi]

I've tried to use MERC guys as transporters, but they always end up losing some nice gear to a bloodcat.

That's the beauty of it. They are perfectly expandable I love Speck's reactions on MERC guys KIA. Still, once you clear the bloodcat lair, bloodcats are rarely a problem.

Spoiler

I remember trying to clear that stink hole on my first play on day 2, with just 3 mercs with average equipment. How could I know that a bloodcat was the size of a deathclaw and could take a whole screen and also attack in just one turn. They were horribly mutilated. I mean my mercs

No way. Reaper's the obnoxiously cocky guy, thinking that fate itself shines its bountiful glory solely upon him. The coolest super merc is Gus, no question about it. Magic's also fun to have.

He's a literary guy, Reaper Gus is one merc I've never hired. Never. Not in JA, not in JA2. Too insanely pricey. I could have other more reasonably prices mercs exceed Gus in all fields in a week. I should give him a try some time, just to see what he's like. Magic was boring, all about short one-liners. Also overpriced for his abilities. However, having Blood suck Magic's cock is sometimes funny.

Magic is black? That hair of his is more of a Jewfro.

Not the hair, the mildly choco-skin. Latino at best. Still, for some reason, I've always considered him to be a black, even though his speech wasn't black-ish at all, now thinking about it.

 

[RK47]

To do Iron man runs with fan patch they probably need to tone down the Drassen assault or postpone taking the mines. I tried doing this without reloading and it was really, really hard.

I managed to load up on a lot of explosives and setup defensive position on rooftops with 4 mercs and 40+ militia (20 came from another sector). I wiped like 20 of them before the whole militia fell apart and I had to pull out. I remembered losing Red (the scottish) explosive expert in a funny way too. Too bloody to move and knowing if he pop out of cover he'll get interrupted and die,I decided to just lay 2 TNT down on his final round, troops came. Shot him up, he fell on the floor. Boom. Heroic death. XD

But Ironman was fun with Blood (Expert Thrower) with his godly knives and agility. Run into sector at night, knive throw 2 goons, retrieve knives, pull out. Works like a charm. especially when it's an adjacent Town sector (5 min trip)

 

[Higher Game]

That's the beauty of it. They are perfectly expandable

Yeah, I know they are, but sometimes they were carrying some nice gear!

Gus is one merc I've never hired. Never. Not in JA, not in JA2. Too insanely pricey. I could have other more reasonably prices mercs exceed Gus in all fields in a week. I should give him a try some time, just to see what he's like.

Gus is actually very cheap for his level. If you take a cheaper merc up to level 8, he's often more expensive. Getting a level 8 in the first place is really cool. Plus, Gus is a heavy weapons expert, which is priceless, given the shocking inaccuracy of the LAW.

Magic was boring, all about short one-liners. Also overpriced for his abilities. However, having Blood suck Magic's cock is sometimes funny.

Magic's specials are a bit weak, and he's expensive, but he comes with probably the best stats in the game. I do like his voice as well.

Not the hair, the mildly choco-skin. Latino at best. Still, for some reason, I've always considered him to be a black, even though his speech wasn't black-ish at all, now thinking about it.

Lots of JA2 mercs have nebulous racial characteristics.

 

[The_scorpion]

Magic's face looked a lot brighter in ja or ja:dg, so there's some room for confusion.

The speech, the looks etc. in ja2 alone however seem fairly obvious to me though.


for the comedy, i should make myself a squad consiting of Razor, haywire, Fidel, Maddog, Perko and Calvin and then let them die or on low morale (e.g. drunk/ hangover)
Squads are just too small, i should add Larry, Biff and Flo to that group... and foxy and...

but strangely, some of the best quotes are when a buddy of a merc dies, so we hardly hear them

Or on the phone... which we hardly hear either ;-/

 

[quasimodo]

I think its interesting to note that more than any other game I have played any discussion of JA2 involves a whole lot of who is who's favorite RPCs. Sirtech did a really good job of creating a variety of characters.

 

[Monocause]

OT: are the enemy turns in JA2 still so damn long after the patches? I always hated that you couldn't speed up the AI movement and the fights got tedious after a while.

 

[rpgcodexusername]

I always get to the point when the special forces enemies are introduced and then they kick the ass of the militia, when I have someone training militia they always get killed too. Then the Mercs start dropping like flies too.

Also how do you do the first city (the one where they train special forces) without cheating?
You open a door and get shot 15 times by enemies on overwatch.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

Also how do you do the first city (the one where they train special forces) without cheating?
You open a door and get shot 15 times by enemies on overwatch.

Try blowing it open with explosives, or grenades if the door is not too tough.

 

[Lightknight]

Also how do you do the first city (the one where they train special forces) without cheating?
You open a door and get shot 15 times by enemies on overwatch.

High agility + camoflage + stealth mode + smoke grenades.

Or just shoot the wall nearby and wait till they run out trying to spot you.

 

[rpgcodexusername]

"High agility + camoflage + stealth mode + smoke grenades. "

ah-ha that sounds more like it,

cant blow open every door in that huge base

 

[Higher Game]

Use wire cutters to get through the fences. I used to use grenades until I figured that one out. Entering buildings is always really risky. Tear gas and expendable heroes come in handy. Not everyone is cut out for the final push on Meduna. :twisted:

 

[Lightknight]

You can also try side-stepping, sometimes it works when nothing else does. Rarely, though.

 

[The_scorpion]

I think its interesting to note that more than any other game I have played any discussion of JA2 involves a whole lot of who is who's favorite RPCs. Sirtech did a really good job of creating a variety of characters.

sure. Personally, i like my own characters better over the ones by sir-tech, but then that only works by way of massive bias


- all party's turns can be sped up in 1.13

- attacking the army complex as the first city might not be the easiest thing to do.

- don't bother fighting the early elite counterattacks back with miltia, it is a waste of time and ressources. Wait for the elites in a sector where you're in a tactical advantage and ambush them. Just your mercs, no militia. Don't let them attack the militia that your backup guys are training at the Sam site or town.

- if you only have short ranged weapons, an option is to attack at night only. There are several mercs with night ops speciality. Those that have a high level in addition to that are extremely powerful in early game night fights.

 

[The Genius]

They're both outstanding games, neither of which have ever been equalled. But I will say that after playing JA2 a lot, the combat in XCOM becomes tedious (all that moving around the map looking for enemies - which JA2 does in realtime) and faceless (without unique mercs). I am still waiting for a XCOM type game with the combat mechanics and wit of JA2. Looks like I'll be waiting a long time.

Exactly the post I was going to make. I still don't know why this hasn't been implemented in some form. Both games have large fanbases.