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Dwarf Fortress

Discussion in 'Strategy and Simulation' started by PorkyThePaladin, Jul 8, 2014.

  1. PorkyThePaladin Arcane

    PorkyThePaladin
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    FFS, Dwarf Fortress is not a city builder, for the thousandth time. I think this is why you people struggle to understand its development process. The city building thing was just the first thing they rolled out, but it is a tiny part of the whole game.

    DF is a fantasy world simulator. It procedurally generates a fantasy world that could be like Middle Earth on one run, Westeros in another, and so on. And then you can play many different games in that world, from playing as a hero, a villain, a dwarf settlement, or whatever else. Each game contributing to the world's history, making it richer for future games. I suspect RPG-type single characters games will eventually be the most popular and common.
     
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  2. RhodokMasterRaceOfficial Arbiter

    RhodokMasterRaceOfficial
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    I will consider it to not be just a citybuilder when the other gameplay you have described actually exists.
     
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  3. Morpheus Kitami Arbiter

    Morpheus Kitami
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    I haven't played all that many city building games, but I was generally under the impression that most didn't have a real win condition. Or at least a campaign and a sandbox mode. DF as it is, is just the sandbox mode.
     
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  4. Metronome Learned

    Metronome
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    With sandbox games the only way to win is to not play it in the first place.
     
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  5. RhodokMasterRaceOfficial Arbiter

    RhodokMasterRaceOfficial
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    I guess that is generally the nature of a sandbox. It usually only ends when you decide it does, because they tend to be pretty easy once you figure out how they work. Dwarf Fortress isn't really any different in that regard, but it does have a lot of volatile scenarios where the game will just drop something in your lap that you couldn't really prepare for. And the UI is bad, which doesn't help in dealing with a crisis.
     
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  6. Perkel Arcane

    Perkel
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    It is called adventure mode and it exists. It is also fairly expansive. Hell with some mods you can actually build in it make a party of people etc and go after those titans.

    If fortress mode is hard to understrand then adv mode is like 100 times harder though.

    Source played a bit adv mode.
     
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  7. RhodokMasterRaceOfficial Arbiter

    RhodokMasterRaceOfficial
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    I don't really think this statement is true, but if it was, it's still not even the main thing the game has to offer right now. I only ever used it to see how much of the world I could break before starting a fort.
     
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  8. Morpheus Kitami Arbiter

    Morpheus Kitami
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    I think that's true depending on how you define it. You've got a potentially limitless open-world, its just all procedurally generated. That's great for outside, but not so great for interiors, quests and anything else that involves sentients. As a result, the last time I played there was a feeling that nothing really mattered in that mode. Plus there were the boogeymen, which put a damper on the whole wandering around bit. I do think its cool that the game recognizes if all the sentients are dead.
     
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  9. Metronome Learned

    Metronome
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    The trick with the boogeymen is to sleep in the mountains or deserts. You could also get a party member but I don't like to manage them. Adventure mode always starts off seeming like something very exciting but it ends up as cheesing the mechanics by molesting sand-crabs to legendary status or being one-shotted, or at least crippled, in the first combat you run into. You also barely gain any experience from actual fights. Would be more fun with save/load functionality than "traditional" permadeath considering how unpredictable combat is, how much time it takes to train a character legitimately, and how much detail is put into creating a character. A lot of that stuff just doesn't work well with the existing mechanics of the game. Dungeons are also very lame and sparse.
     
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  10. Hag Savant

    Hag
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    Always thought adventure mod was there mostly for its comedic values, with idiosyncratic vomit fights and nonsensical quests. Some kind of lighthearted roguelike parody.

    [​IMG]

    That, or maybe there is a value in exploring previous forts, reclaimed by the AI, and re-discover them by yourself. Never tried. After some forts and adventure games in the same world, you may somehow get intimate with it, remember gods, creatures, places or hearsay from one game to another, really appropriate yourself this small piece of universe. Maybe or maybe not, since most major game update needed a new world to be generated I never kept one long enough to go further than fortress building.

    But I've always thought this big open-world with history and legends as a common background for all your games was a good idea pretty well executed. The procedural generation in DF is among the best I've met.
     
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  11. Cael Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    Cael
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    Welp, DF just crashed on me irrecoverably after 12 years on a fort (years 150-162). I load a save, it runs for 2 min and crashes. Tried it several times, always same time. The last copy of the save was back in 153. Looks like a rage quit of DF for me for a while.

    Anyone got suggestions for a game other than DF?
     
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  12. Correct_Carlo Arcane

    Correct_Carlo
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    You can use Windows recovery to revert a folder back to various dates. You could potentially recover your save that way.
     
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  13. Hag Savant

    Hag
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    Maybe ask about it on the official forums. Dev should be able to clean your save, or at least should be interested in inspecting it to prevent future bugs.
     
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  14. dehimos Augur

    dehimos
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  15. Cael Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    Cael
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    It is better to extend the hallway and put in nothing but cage traps. That was, you get all of them trapped, so you can strip them for their equipment and drop them into an arena later for archer practice. Have a bridge ready to close off the trap hallway at the far end from your fortress to force them to try to get to your fortress to get out. That is how you get all of them instead of about half of them only.

    And the stupid idiot didn't warren up his civilians and forbid the traps to prevent his civilians from running into the goblin horde... And his trap hallway wouldn't stop a full fledged attack, which is capped at 120 soldiers and 40 creatures. At best, he'd stop a third of them, which means he'd still have 80+ bad guys to rape his soldiers and then his civilians.
     
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  16. RoBoBOBR Arcane Patron

    RoBoBOBR
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    cage traps are for pussies
     
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  17. Cael Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    Cael
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    If he is going to use traps anyway, might as well do it right.
     
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  18. Alienman Arcane Patron

    Alienman
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  19. Perkel Arcane

    Perkel
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    DFhack has option feature where goblins can dig into your fortress. Unfortunutelly there is no way in DF to fill up such holes with whatever was dug out thus making such holes pain in ass to fill and then looks like shit.
     
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  20. Cael Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    Cael
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    DF also has a bug where if you dig just under a tree and you harvest the tree later, you leave a big gaping hole in the floor. This can bone a lot of forts if the gobbos dug under the trees of your tree farm.

    Also, I believe the digging doesn't extend to built walls, so it really just means you have to build walls and floors everywhere to stop them digging in.
     
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  21. Cael Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    Cael
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    So, I finally downloaded the latest DF version (.47) and gave it a whirl.

    What the hell? I have thieves zooming for my artifacts the second they are made. What the hell did Toady do? That never happened in my old .44.

    Anyway, I built a vault to store artifacts in, with a door on it. I have a squad posted just outside whenever I open it (to put in new artifacts). Sure enough, literally 3 of the bastards made beelines for artifacts the second I unlocked the door. Two of them have been in my fort for years! But with the squad standing there, they dare not pick stuff up. They just stand over the items they want and try to look innocent.

    The result? All three of them are locked up in the vault with the new artifact. Fuckers can starve. I am already building their memorial slabs, which I am going to build in the river when the winter freezes it (which is also where I buried the stupid elves that don't know how to swim but insist on trying to swim my moat).
     
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  22. RoBoBOBR Arcane Patron

    RoBoBOBR
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    Some visitor corrupted them to steal those artifacts for them. You gotta use justice system and interrogate your dwarves and visitors to determine the culprits, then deal with them accordingly. I like that — keeping spies and thieves out of your fortress fleshes out justice system and also generates a lot of cases, that you can then use to not only prosecute the criminals themselves, but also any undesirables you want (spying usually warrants a long prison stay, several hundred days, and one spy can generate 2-3 cases with diligent interrogation, those can then be used to make bards, nobles or necromancers go insane in the cell, even though they have nothing to do with the actual spy). There's an easy way to determine which visitors are villains BTW, pay attention to their purpose of visiting.
     
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  23. Cael Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    Cael
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    The stupid part is that I actually saw the one of them doing it. I had a squad training near the exit, and that citizen waltz straight pass them and there was nothing I could do to get them to attack the guy. Even when the guy's inventory showed that he was carrying the bloody thing. One of my citizens waiting three years to grab an artifact, and ran away with it. As in he ran all the way off the map. He didn't pass it to anyone. And three of them at the same time. What is this? Fucking Harlem? This is ridiculous.

    DF hides enough information from you as it is, and now it doesn't even tell you artifacts are missing. I just discovered that one of my artifacts disappeared years ago and only now did I get the notification that it is missing. The stupidest part was that the dwarves dropped another artifact on the SAME SPOT as the missing one. How could they have not known?

    I don't mind if the game gives me to opportunity to stop the thief from getting off the map with the item. But no. Artifacts just disappears and that's it. Gone for good.

    The easy way out would be to forbid visitors in my tavern. To hell with this stupid shit.
     
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  24. thesheeep Arcane Patron

    thesheeep
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    That's my biggest gripe with the game, really. Well, that and the mouse support, but at least the latter is on its way.

    But the game hides so much information from you in submenus within submenus within submenus.
    Yes, the information is there, theoretically, but it's such a PITA to get to it and you also have to do it constantly because notifications don't do shit.

    In much the same way that you can build a well, theoretically, but you have to manually dig a hole first.
    And build a mechanism.
    Why is that not part of the "place well" process? Dig hole, queue mechanism production (unless already one in store) and finally place the well.
    Don't get me wrong, I don't claim it is hard to do, but it is all so... needlessly manual and obfuscated.

    I truly hope the new release with proper controls & UI support deals with a vast amount of these issues, but I don't dare being too optimistic about it.
     
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  25. Cael Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    Cael
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    When Dwarf Fortress tries to emulate the lamestream media:

    [​IMG]
     
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