lol, yeah I guess that's why they find so many parkour guys starved to death at the top of tall buildings, people forgot to install ziplines so they had no way to get down.
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Dying Light
- Thread starter toro
- Start date
Ash
Arcane
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2015
- Messages
- 6,554
"no way to get down".
When do you ever need to climb down like a pussy when you have the monocled drop from ledge input, then can aim at and grab the desired ledge below with timing? Better simulates the actual act of free climbing than "press the awesome button". Or the leet parkour roll ability. Or the jump from roof and grapple hook the floor advanced strat for badasses. As mentioned there's also trash bags, car roofs, zip lines and stuff for descent. Climb down he says, like it's not supposed to be challenging and inconvenient. If only climbing up were as testing. I'd like that.
In full seriousness while it seems an odd thing not to have I never once found myself missing a climb down feature. the hold forward to automatically climb is the sole lame part of the parkour as-is. Doesn't take skill (precision, timing, reflexes) like everything else. Maybe on the towers I missed it. But the good news is there's only like 3 or four towers. They have their place even if they could have been implemented better (the vast majority of things in the game you absolutely can realistically climb, but the towers do seem to have odd, unclear exceptions).
You think this guy wants a climb down button? Good games demand player skill. Even the best of combat/platforming/stealth/whatever mechanics in games are already watered down versions of these real life skills. The awesome button becoming the norm and making gameplay effortless while everyone sings its praises was just mind-boggling
When do you ever need to climb down like a pussy when you have the monocled drop from ledge input, then can aim at and grab the desired ledge below with timing? Better simulates the actual act of free climbing than "press the awesome button". Or the leet parkour roll ability. Or the jump from roof and grapple hook the floor advanced strat for badasses. As mentioned there's also trash bags, car roofs, zip lines and stuff for descent. Climb down he says, like it's not supposed to be challenging and inconvenient. If only climbing up were as testing. I'd like that.
In full seriousness while it seems an odd thing not to have I never once found myself missing a climb down feature. the hold forward to automatically climb is the sole lame part of the parkour as-is. Doesn't take skill (precision, timing, reflexes) like everything else. Maybe on the towers I missed it. But the good news is there's only like 3 or four towers. They have their place even if they could have been implemented better (the vast majority of things in the game you absolutely can realistically climb, but the towers do seem to have odd, unclear exceptions).
You think this guy wants a climb down button? Good games demand player skill. Even the best of combat/platforming/stealth/whatever mechanics in games are already watered down versions of these real life skills. The awesome button becoming the norm and making gameplay effortless while everyone sings its praises was just mind-boggling
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Oh, that reminds me of another annoyance in this game. The "can't look down" feature. Often the move seems to be to drop from a ledge or climb down a ladder, only it's impossible to look down past my elbows so I just have to say "Fuck it, I guess I'll see". Have died several times that way. Such skill based
RoSoDude
Arcane
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2016
- Messages
- 730
So, I remember being annoyed by the lack of a "climb down" mechanic because of how finnicky the automated climbing can make doing precisely the maneuver you suggest. When dropping off of a rung and using air control to grab a lower rung, Crane will (nearly?) always climb up to the next higher rung again. You can just treat this as a rule and work around it by dropping 2-3 rungs each time or whatever, but it's not exactly intuitive in the way the rest of the movement mechanics are. Thus the lack of climb down feature stands out as an omission, because it's something that you have to work around in a sort of strange way.
In my ideal world you'd have to jump off of each rung and grab onto the next to go up, making climbing a bit less automated (and faster) and also removing the weirdness I described. In that context I don't think there would be anyone complaining about the lack of a "climb down" mechanic.
Ash
Arcane
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2015
- Messages
- 6,554
Mods will fix it?
Silly Germans
Guest
That aggravated me too, especially since you can look straight down when standing or running normally. But when it actually matter's, jumping down a ledge or a ladder, you can't. The movement in the game is already good but with some small additions it would be even better.
I'm also tired of pixel hunt collect missions. It's fine that I have to collect 3 teddy bears from somewhere in the toy store, not so fine if there are only 3 teddy bears on the face of the earth: 1 on the floor, 1 on a shelf, and 1 tucked inside the ear of a stuffed elephant submerged in 1000 gallons of peanut butter at the bottom of a magic cave that only opens when you whistle "God Save the Queen" backwards. And god forbid I come back with only 2 teddy bears. Nope! Gotta be all 3! Keep searching every fucking cubic inch of that city block!
More aggravations:
* Boredom progresses geometrically due to thoughtless pacing. The more missions you do, the farther and farther away new missions get. There's no reward for learning your way around because areas are rarely reused - the only "reward" is now you have to walk twice as far to have something to do. At the same time, traversal gets easier and easier (but not faster) as you level up and get more killing and evasion tools, so not only is there more traveling, traveling itself becomes fundamentally more boring.
* Zerg-friendly checkpoints. I like "fail forward" games, but this one takes it too far. Climb a skyscraper and get the macguffin, checkpoint. Slip and fall on your way down, break your neck, no problem. Respawn at the nearest friendly camp with the macguffin safe and sound. That's crap. Make me bring it back down safely.
* "Use climbing arrow here" design. God forbid they give you a bunch of tools and let you figure out how to use them. You have to cross that 20' gap, but forget the grappling hook, forget climbing up from underneath, forget improvising. No, we want you to walk that one tightrope, so no matter how many ways you can figure out to get across, none of them will work except that tightrope.
* Boredom progresses geometrically due to thoughtless pacing. The more missions you do, the farther and farther away new missions get. There's no reward for learning your way around because areas are rarely reused - the only "reward" is now you have to walk twice as far to have something to do. At the same time, traversal gets easier and easier (but not faster) as you level up and get more killing and evasion tools, so not only is there more traveling, traveling itself becomes fundamentally more boring.
* Zerg-friendly checkpoints. I like "fail forward" games, but this one takes it too far. Climb a skyscraper and get the macguffin, checkpoint. Slip and fall on your way down, break your neck, no problem. Respawn at the nearest friendly camp with the macguffin safe and sound. That's crap. Make me bring it back down safely.
* "Use climbing arrow here" design. God forbid they give you a bunch of tools and let you figure out how to use them. You have to cross that 20' gap, but forget the grappling hook, forget climbing up from underneath, forget improvising. No, we want you to walk that one tightrope, so no matter how many ways you can figure out to get across, none of them will work except that tightrope.
I ended up hating Dying Light (see above), because despite its parkour trappings it was infuriatingly restrictive in the ways it let you navigate the landscape. I quit forever when I wanted to use a grappling hook to cross a gap, but it didn't let me because it wanted to make go back down and climb all the way up the other side, for reasons. So the bridge was sprayed with magical grappling hook repellent. Fuck you, game.
The point is, HoboForEternity you're not missing much imo.
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KeighnMcDeath
RPG Codex Boomer
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2016
- Messages
- 13,053
So not very open, more like a gauntlet?
Nifft Batuff
Prophet
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2018
- Messages
- 3,204
True, but imo traversal is still fun and one of the highlight of the game. An open world game that is still playable and bearable without fast travel is good open world design to me.
This is a problem common to every games that "feature" autosave and checkpoints, that is about 99% of modern games. I had also the opposite experience: I exited the game during night when I was at a safe zone. When I reloaded the game, it was still night, but I respawed in a previous point that was far from any safe zone. I was killed by some random volatiles and lost all the xp point.
I hate checkpoints, but these are checkpoints for you, it is inevitable that they fuck up somewhere. I had bad experience with checkpoints in every single game that had them.
These events are very rare, personally I never encountered them. From your description it seems that DL is similar to Thief 4, while the complete opposite is actually true. This is of one of the most free-form game out there.
Nifft Batuff I never really thought about it that the game has no fast travel, and I completely agree that fast travel would NOT improve the experience despite my complaints about too much filler travel.
For the most part the game lets you traverse however you want, but there are at least a few "You must do it how we want" moments. If you didn't find them, you must have simply taken the expected route. After the 3rd time my tools broke because the DM decided "I'm not going to let you do that", I quit. Possible those were the only 3 times in the whole game. For me that was enough to break the camel's back.
For the most part the game lets you traverse however you want, but there are at least a few "You must do it how we want" moments. If you didn't find them, you must have simply taken the expected route. After the 3rd time my tools broke because the DM decided "I'm not going to let you do that", I quit. Possible those were the only 3 times in the whole game. For me that was enough to break the camel's back.
luj1
You're all shills
Which edition to get? Steam or GoG?
SpaceWizardz
Liturgist
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2018
- Messages
- 1,062
Enhanced Edition is base game + DLCs while Definitive has all the weapon/skin packs.
Steam seems cheaper ATM so I'd go with that.
luj1
You're all shills
vortex
Fabulous Optimist
Techland is making new game, Narrative-Driven Fantasy RPG !
https://www.gameinformer.com/2023/0...-look-at-its-new-narrative-driven-fantasy-rpg
https://www.gameinformer.com/2023/0...-look-at-its-new-narrative-driven-fantasy-rpg
Ivan
Arcane
Dying Light went free on EGS so I gave it another spin. I had attempted a playthrough prior but returned it after 2 hours or so. This time around, I stubbornly played through the campaign and came away with many more critiscisms than postives.
Starting off with the pros, the animation and locomotion behind the parkour is great, very reminiscent of Mirror's Edge. That said, it does feel too automated for my liking, like in Assassin's Creed. I would have liked a proper stamina meter, or some more player agency. That said, I did find it super satisfying to use the grapple hook after all of the parkour done in the opening hours.
Mission design: atrocious. It's pretty much a FedEx simulator where NPCs have you go here, to retrieve this, so you receive a blueprint. It kind of reminded of Death Stranding in that respect.
Chases/Virals: these guys reminded me of the annoying enemy mobs that would relentlessly follow you in Far Cry 2. A shame that the combat isn't nearly as good or satisfying as it is there. I did have fun with the lulzy moves, namely the dropkick, but the core melee combat lacked oomph.
Itemization: garbage. I think the key reason I refunded this during my first playthrough was that I realized that the game replenished its stashes, such that the loot you worked to acquire would just reset after some time. This broke my hopes for exploration, but I understand it's in place to serve the weapon degradation system.
Production Value: it's well done, with solid voice acting and some dramatic cutscenes. Definitely not AAA, but a solid AA effort.
DLC: it's still early hours here, but it's more of the same on a much flatter and wider playspace. Not sure yet if upgrading the buggy is going to feel super satisfying just yet.
TLDR: automated platforming from Ass Creed, annoying enemies that pursue like the Far Cry 2 mobs, and uninspired itemization/looting make for a mostly poor game. Commendable production values though, it's a looker, performs well, and the animations are more than solid
Starting off with the pros, the animation and locomotion behind the parkour is great, very reminiscent of Mirror's Edge. That said, it does feel too automated for my liking, like in Assassin's Creed. I would have liked a proper stamina meter, or some more player agency. That said, I did find it super satisfying to use the grapple hook after all of the parkour done in the opening hours.
Mission design: atrocious. It's pretty much a FedEx simulator where NPCs have you go here, to retrieve this, so you receive a blueprint. It kind of reminded of Death Stranding in that respect.
Chases/Virals: these guys reminded me of the annoying enemy mobs that would relentlessly follow you in Far Cry 2. A shame that the combat isn't nearly as good or satisfying as it is there. I did have fun with the lulzy moves, namely the dropkick, but the core melee combat lacked oomph.
Itemization: garbage. I think the key reason I refunded this during my first playthrough was that I realized that the game replenished its stashes, such that the loot you worked to acquire would just reset after some time. This broke my hopes for exploration, but I understand it's in place to serve the weapon degradation system.
Production Value: it's well done, with solid voice acting and some dramatic cutscenes. Definitely not AAA, but a solid AA effort.
DLC: it's still early hours here, but it's more of the same on a much flatter and wider playspace. Not sure yet if upgrading the buggy is going to feel super satisfying just yet.
TLDR: automated platforming from Ass Creed, annoying enemies that pursue like the Far Cry 2 mobs, and uninspired itemization/looting make for a mostly poor game. Commendable production values though, it's a looker, performs well, and the animations are more than solid
Ash
Arcane
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2015
- Messages
- 6,554
I had been starting to think there was hope for you of late. I was wrong. You should just give up now and kys.
Could you ever be more wrong? Name ONE, just ONE other game with greater in-depth, simulated, MANUAL and SKILL-based platforming/climbing/parkour combo than Dying Light. And just in case you pull out dishonored from yo dumb ass again I'll prep this for you in advance:
Donkey Kong is a better climbing game because you can climb both up and down.
Ivan
Arcane
Wrapped up The Following, which is worse than the base game b/c there's a much greater emphasis on flat traversal. The FedEx mission design and piss-poor itemization don't help. But hey, playing mediocre/subpar games is a good thing too, it shines a light on older games I didn't give enough credit to.
-I did like infiltrating the Volatile's nests, those created some pretty tense moments
-coastal towns reminded me a lot of those from Just Cause 3, damn did I miss the grapple hook and glider from Just Cause...
More than anything, Dying Light's climbing reminds me of Ass Creed. Pretty to look at, but it's in service to shit level design and gets old very fast thanks to the shitty itemization and superfluous combat. It's funny that most of the time you can just nab the quest item and tell the combat encounter to fuck off.
-I did like infiltrating the Volatile's nests, those created some pretty tense moments
-coastal towns reminded me a lot of those from Just Cause 3, damn did I miss the grapple hook and glider from Just Cause...
More than anything, Dying Light's climbing reminds me of Ass Creed. Pretty to look at, but it's in service to shit level design and gets old very fast thanks to the shitty itemization and superfluous combat. It's funny that most of the time you can just nab the quest item and tell the combat encounter to fuck off.
PorkyThePaladin
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2013
- Messages
- 5,179
Dying Light is utter trash, one of the worst designed games I've ever played in my life.
1. Difficulty - I usually play games on hardest difficulty, so I played this on Nightmare. I guess I should've realized something was wrong when it takes 15-20 headshot hits with a melee weapon to kill a random trash zombie on the streets, and after 20-30 hits, your melee weapon degrades and needs to be repaired/replaced. Lol. So apparently what passes for harder difficulty in Poland is MASSIVE hitpoint bloat and also they spawn these annoying virals in Nightmare in hordes around you, these fuckers actually have relatively lower health but move around like Bruce Lee on Adderall. Then there are the annoying mobs that explode the moment you are close and one shot kill you, and half the time you cant even tell its them cause they are behind a door or standing with their back to you.
There are also human enemies that you can block and dodge you, but you can barely do anything to them. The kicker is, whenever you die, you lose your Survivor skill points, which level up your ability to get better equipment, so basically you are completely fucked.
Every retard fanboy online says "oh, just get gud and the game is easy when you have 2 fully upgraded shotguns", but of course that doesn't address the issue that you need to level up quite a bit to get to guns.
I was curious about how such retardation could be designed by anything with 23 chromosomes, so I googled around and found out that apparently the devs never meant for the harder game modes to be played at the beginning. You are supposed to play on Normal at first, then NG on Hard, and then NG+ on Nightmare, or some such shit. Imagine the retarded hubris to think that 1. players will play your shitty game 3 times in a row, and 2. that someone just trying to play this for the first time would know this.
2. Trash combat - aside from my gripes above, the combat is basically designed to be played as a cat/run away simulator. Unlike other, far better, zombie games, no matter how little noise you make, e.g. by fighting with melee weapons or unarmed, or by crouching, or by quietly walking, zombies will aggro on you and magically spawn all around. So getting into a fight early on is suicide. Instead, you are meant to run up a house like a cat up a tree, and then headstomp virals or some sick shit like that. The game actually gets much more fun once you have firearms, but of course it takes a while to get them, so much of the game you are stuck using next to useless melee shit and what they probably thought was cool parkour/unarmed moves, but what's in reality absolute fucking tedium.
3. Trash city design - fucking road tunnels and bridges are blocked everywhere, so half the time you gotta take some unholy long way around the city to get to the other side.
4. Parkour gets old fast - First few hours it's a nice change of pace from most games, but after a 50,000th building you gotta climb, what is the fucking point...
5. Boring story/writing - starts out nice, but soon you are helping a bunch of literal retards sprinkled around the city.
1. Difficulty - I usually play games on hardest difficulty, so I played this on Nightmare. I guess I should've realized something was wrong when it takes 15-20 headshot hits with a melee weapon to kill a random trash zombie on the streets, and after 20-30 hits, your melee weapon degrades and needs to be repaired/replaced. Lol. So apparently what passes for harder difficulty in Poland is MASSIVE hitpoint bloat and also they spawn these annoying virals in Nightmare in hordes around you, these fuckers actually have relatively lower health but move around like Bruce Lee on Adderall. Then there are the annoying mobs that explode the moment you are close and one shot kill you, and half the time you cant even tell its them cause they are behind a door or standing with their back to you.
There are also human enemies that you can block and dodge you, but you can barely do anything to them. The kicker is, whenever you die, you lose your Survivor skill points, which level up your ability to get better equipment, so basically you are completely fucked.
Every retard fanboy online says "oh, just get gud and the game is easy when you have 2 fully upgraded shotguns", but of course that doesn't address the issue that you need to level up quite a bit to get to guns.
I was curious about how such retardation could be designed by anything with 23 chromosomes, so I googled around and found out that apparently the devs never meant for the harder game modes to be played at the beginning. You are supposed to play on Normal at first, then NG on Hard, and then NG+ on Nightmare, or some such shit. Imagine the retarded hubris to think that 1. players will play your shitty game 3 times in a row, and 2. that someone just trying to play this for the first time would know this.
2. Trash combat - aside from my gripes above, the combat is basically designed to be played as a cat/run away simulator. Unlike other, far better, zombie games, no matter how little noise you make, e.g. by fighting with melee weapons or unarmed, or by crouching, or by quietly walking, zombies will aggro on you and magically spawn all around. So getting into a fight early on is suicide. Instead, you are meant to run up a house like a cat up a tree, and then headstomp virals or some sick shit like that. The game actually gets much more fun once you have firearms, but of course it takes a while to get them, so much of the game you are stuck using next to useless melee shit and what they probably thought was cool parkour/unarmed moves, but what's in reality absolute fucking tedium.
3. Trash city design - fucking road tunnels and bridges are blocked everywhere, so half the time you gotta take some unholy long way around the city to get to the other side.
4. Parkour gets old fast - First few hours it's a nice change of pace from most games, but after a 50,000th building you gotta climb, what is the fucking point...
5. Boring story/writing - starts out nice, but soon you are helping a bunch of literal retards sprinkled around the city.
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