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Hazelnut

Erudite
Joined
Dec 17, 2002
Messages
1,490
Location
UK
ViolentOpposition said:
Hazelnut said:
You guys ousted VD for this reiteration of the same old shit?

VD and Shagnak (and possibly Calis too - it's been hard to keep up with all of it) appeared to be edging towards discussing things and possibly even moving the Codex forward, until DU waded in again like an asshat with an agenda. No one (who spoke up) wanted the Codex to become ESF or happy fairy emo land (MountainWest summed it up pretty well I think) but I think many kinda wanted some kind of evolution. VD seemed like he had some ambition for this site to evolve, not to change completely or anything, and he most certainly had the most drive of any staff member for the last couple of years.

Dunno whether you felt threatened by what VD has achieved and you haven't, or whether it's more fear of change... or just nostalgia for the old days when, as someone said in that other thread, there was a knowledge that if you said something stupid, you were gonna get torn a new one. Well those days have gone, DU, and nothing in these rules will bring that back.

Maybe it's not an fair image of your actions and motives, but it does look suspiciously like you've gone on a fucking ego trip power play over the past few days and the end result is that you're so very pleased with the fact you got your own way and beat that nazi VD.

You win, we get it! Whoop-de-fucking-do. :roll:

EDIT: Oh, what Astro posted while I was typing is pretty spot on.

For the record, I more or less agree with you. Not as strongly as you put it across, though. I think there's even ground between the whole DU/VD thing, and I think Calis was on the right track but (IMO) DU interfered.

Fair enough, maybe I did put it a bit harshly last night. One thing I've not mentioned is that I can see some truth in some of DU's arguments about VD being erratic at times. What I didn't like is the way these issues were blown out of proportion and wielded like a weapon for assassination. DU is being nice and reasonable today, why the hell couldn't he used that attitude over the last couple of days in that other thread? Whatever you say now, DU, it's always gonna look like the manifestation of an agenda to me, unless you somehow manage make amends.

The way I see events is this*:

1) VD wanted to make changes and has felt he pretty much runs the site these days.
2) Got into a 'ban u' situation with SM.
3) Site gets taken over by children amusing themselves.
4) Site gets restored by Calis.
5) VD decides he's had enough of doing all the work for the site if it remains the way it is and decides that things need to change. Goes into a Bezerker rage, making ultimatum with no negotiation room.
6) Caliphate decide to oust him, with DU wading in like someone with a grudge.
7) VD makes some mild overtures to negotiation, engaging Shagnak (& Calis?) with the idea of a public negotiation. (who knows how much he would have listened/compromised or whether it'd have come to anything, I guess we'll never know now)
8) DU fucks over any possibility of diplomacy with VD, apparently enjoying himself immensely and laughing as those bridges burn baby burn!
9) Rules are posted that are a waste of time, except maybe to noobs who don't know how this place traditionally works.

I can't say for sure whether any agreement could have have been reached with VD, when he seemed to feel that he was the only one with a stake since no one else did much for the Codex content, but I suspect it might have. As I said before I don't think a dictator in the form of VD would have been good for the site, there needed to be some overseer(s) and consensus over big decisions. The thing is, who the fuck cares if things go off and get overturned (al la Volly) - it's not serious business right? Or is it only serious business when it's convenient to DU for it to be?

I don't doubt that you all agreed this, but I'm also pretty damn sure that if DU had been on a Caribbean beach with no net access this would have ended differently.


* - My version of events is very simplified, and intended as an attempt to get my opinion across in a non-waffly way. I'm not putting it forth as a definitive history, and I am aware that I may have missed things that skew my view since I've never seen the staff forum. (although maybe in a year or so that might be an interesting article for a dispassionate writer to tackle)
 

Nedrah

Erudite
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
1,693
Location
Germany
dagorkan said:
I am concerned about the number of Germans now on the staff.

Well, not exactly the solution to the german problem you were envisioning then, I take it? :lol:
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Lumpy said:
I don't get one thing. Why don't the VD lovers just start their own forum free of lulz and other such shit? Is the name of RPGCodex so important for them? Everyone hates us anyway.
Though, I don't know all that well how the Intarnets work, so I have no idea how feasible that would be.
Good idea. That way the Codex will be finally free of the intelligent posters.

You are a moron, Lumpy. The prospect of people like Astro, Walks, Hazelnut and many other "VD lovers" leaving, which is what you suggested, would be a fucking nightmare and a terrible loss for the site. But I guess they distract you from enjoying the lulz, so they should stop bothering you and leave, eh?
 

spacemoose

Erudite
Joined
Jan 22, 2005
Messages
9,632
Location
california
dagorkan said:
I am concerned about the number of Germans now on the staff.
to tell the truth, this bothers me too. today - germans flooding the frontpage with roguelikes, tomorrow - germans marching through your cities. its a slippery slope we cannot afford to take
 

Lumpy

Arcane
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
8,525
Vault Dweller said:
Lumpy said:
I don't get one thing. Why don't the VD lovers just start their own forum free of lulz and other such shit? Is the name of RPGCodex so important for them? Everyone hates us anyway.
Though, I don't know all that well how the Intarnets work, so I have no idea how feasible that would be.
Good idea. That way the Codex will be finally free of the intelligent posters.

You are a moron, Lumpy. The prospect of people like Astro, Walks, Hazelnut and many other "VD lovers" leaving, which is what you suggested, would be a fucking nightmare and a terrible loss for the site. But I guess they distract you from enjoying the lulz, so they should stop bothering you and leave, eh?
Yes, they do. I just want them out of here.
Seriously, what is the point of bitching about Calis and DU's decisions? The Codex is not a democracy, even you said as much, even though your decisions were swayed by public opinion. Going by that, it seems perfectly reasonable that the founders should do pretty much what they want here.
The concept of a democracy on the Internet is absurd, quite simply because if you don't like something, you can just move out and leave. But because I'm internet illiterate, explain to me the disadvantages of creating RPGArroyo?
 

Nedrah

Erudite
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
1,693
Location
Germany
Spacemoose said:
dagorkan said:
I am concerned about the number of Germans now on the staff.
to tell the truth, this bothers me too. today - germans flooding the frontpage with roguelikes, tomorrow - germans marching through your cities. its a slippery slope we cannot afford to take

Are you suggesting I should stop posting news about roguelikes (which I won't) or are you just looking for someone to stab?
 

spacemoose

Erudite
Joined
Jan 22, 2005
Messages
9,632
Location
california
Nedrah said:
Are you suggesting I should stop posting news about roguelikes (which I won't) or are you just looking for someone to stab?

yes on both counts

I suppose that this is as good as time as any to declare that I'm aligning myself with the poles in the coming newsposter wars. hell yeah elwro.
 

Elwro

Arcane
Joined
Dec 29, 2002
Messages
11,746
Location
Krakow, Poland
Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
Nedrah, don't take the bait, please.

edit: Whoa, if that's indeed the case, I'm sorry for suspecting any vile intentions on your part, Spacemoose :wink:
 

Nedrah

Erudite
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
1,693
Location
Germany
Don't worry, I'm not in the mood for that today. Those baits always look the same, anyways, and from experience I can say that they don't taste that good.
 

Allanon

Augur
Joined
Oct 11, 2005
Messages
249
:shock:
Jesus, I've been lurking the codex for years and I had no idea VD was not an admin. I'm really sorry he's gone.
 

Deleted member 7219

Guest
Seeing as he was the best known figure from the site to the rest of the RPG community, and he regularly contributed in both news posts and articles, yes he'll be sorely missed.
 

Calis

Pensionado
Joined
Jun 15, 2002
Messages
1,834
Hazelnut said:
I think your representation of events is simplified in some places and incorrect in others, but then again, so are most of the other attempts to go "wait a minute, let's describe what happened here". I'm not going to bother with writing this epic history though.
 

Joe Krow

Erudite
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
1,162
Location
Den of stinking evil.
Why not reinstate VD as Codex Editor In Chief? Let him OK the new kids stuff before it's put up and guide their progress. He can manage the group, assign the interviews, etc. Occasionally he can write up his own stuff. Plenty of power for him doing what we all agree he does best. No moderation duties, strictly editorial. (But still having a vote in your faggot council... your tempers will cool eventually). Is that a compromise you all could live with?
 

vrok

Liturgist
Joined
Jul 23, 2005
Messages
738
You're only like the 50th person to suggest that you know. Including DU.
 

Deleted member 7219

Guest
Besides, VD has said he doesn't want to return any time soon.
 

Jedi_Learner

Liturgist
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
894
Since Vault Dweller won't be returning to his rightful place, will he become moderator of the Age of Decadence forum, like Naked Ninja is to the Scars of War forum?
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Joe Krow said:
Why not reinstate VD as Codex Editor In Chief? Let him OK the new kids stuff before it's put up and guide their progress. He can manage the group, assign the interviews, etc. Occasionally he can write up his own stuff. Plenty of power for him doing what we all agree he does best. No moderation duties, strictly editorial. (But still having a vote in your faggot council... your tempers will cool eventually). Is that a compromise you all could live with?
I tried explaining my thoughts on that already, but maybe Ratty will succeed where I failed:

Ratty: "Finally, to everyone stupid enough to suggest that VD should return as an editor without admin powers: 1. The forums are as integral part of the Codex as news and other content. Forum discussions where content is analysed and dissected over twenty pages by the likes of Section8, David Gaider, Saint Proverbius and Volourn (...) have always been the staple of the Codex and lack of ability to administer the forums would at the very least be a handicap for VD, especially since other admins seem to drop by about twice a year. 2. Any man willing to return after being unceremoniously deposed and under humiliating terms specified by the very people who threw him out and then devoted a dozen or two pages of forum posts to flinging mud at him would have to be completely devoid of self-respect."

Jedi_Learner said:
Since Vault Dweller won't be returning to his rightful place, will he become moderator of the Age of Decadence forum, like Naked Ninja is to the Scars of War forum?
Nope. AoD forum will remain unmoderated for now, as it always was. If a moderator must be assigned, I hope that Jora will accept this position as a favor to me.
 

Deleted member 7219

Guest
You do know you have your supporters here still, don't you VD?
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
That I do - a lot of people PM'ed me, and I'm very, very grateful for their support and kind words. Thanks, guys.
 

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