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Edict from The Management™

Discussion in 'Site Feedback' started by DarkUnderlord, Nov 14, 2007.

  1. thesheeep Arcane Patron

    thesheeep
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8,768
    Location:
    Tampere, Finland
    Codex 2012 Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Well.. at least we got some rules now :)
    Some that we can point to and say "This is why you suck."

    That's actually a good thing.
     
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  2. sqeecoo Arcane

    sqeecoo
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,556
    Bah, swallow your pride already. You'd get to administer the forums, just not ban people without agreement from the other moderators.

    You waved the ban-stick around without consulting anyone, and now you are mad that everyone won't go along with your programme. Sure, they could have been more polite, but this is the codex, one should expect to be insulted. Despite his rude criticism, DU acknowledges your contributions to this site, and is now very calm and reasonable, and open to criticism, as exemplified by his last and excellent mega-post.

    Kiss and make up already. Barter for a face-saving apology if you need to. If you don't, you will have left this site because of your apparently over-sensitive pride. That's a deadly sin, you know.
     
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  3. Serious_Business Best Poster on the Codex

    Serious_Business
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2007
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    3,795
    Location:
    Frown Town
    CAESAR SHALL BE AVANGED, CRY HAVOC AND LET SLIP THE DOGS OF WAR

    Very serioz buziness indeed. Beware.

    Botom of the line I think : the Codex never was meant to be taken seriously by anyone, it's meant to be a hub for elitistic assholes that want to feel good about themselves by thinking they're highly intelligent and cultured because they know more about game design than the common man.

    Maybe VD can spend more time on his game now. I hope this wonderful internet play hasn't brought down his spirits. Or is it not over yet?
     
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  4. Calis Pensionado

    Calis
    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2002
    Messages:
    1,834
    Editorial standards are a Good Thing. VD put those in place, probably moreso than Saint ever did. They *will* suffer because of this, and that's a Bad Thing.
     
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  5. Hazelnut Erudite

    Hazelnut
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    1,490
    Location:
    UK
    Fair enough, I kinda thought that would be the case. I just wish there could have been a better way to resolve this issue because the outcome sucks hairy donkey balls. My point was that this was possibly unavoidable - sometimes there is simply no compromise position that satisfies everyone enough to live with - but I just don't see that this point was actually allowed to be reached here which is a real shame. I could have this wrong, but that's how it looked to me.
     
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  6. roshan Arcane

    roshan
    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2004
    Messages:
    2,313
    Self respect and pride are completely different things. Why should Vault Dweller continue working for the Codex when it kicked him out (humuliatingly and without any ounce of gratitude, I might add) after he single handedly kept it going for years? And that to by a couple of people with virtually no visible contributions to the site. And now he is expected to come back and be their bitch under humiliating conditions? Exactly what have these guys done in comparison to Vault Dweller to justify them being forum admins, and him not? I dont care what justifications are offered, what was done to VD is absolutely repugnant. VD coming back now would be as absurd as a woman marrying the boyfriend she loves after being gangraped by him and his friends.

    And what if he does return? Whats to prevent Calis and Dark Underlord kicking him out again over another trivial issue after several years of additional hard work put into the site?
     
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  7. TheLostOne Savant

    TheLostOne
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2007
    Messages:
    770
    Location:
    Limbo
    Yeah, I was pretty disappointed when DU jumped in and put a halt to the "peace talks". Really was hoping something good would come from the other thread.

    Whatever. I can't add anything that anyone else hasn't already said, but I've got to put my opinion out there like everyone else.

    I've never been a believer in the ends justifying the means. Whether VD was a little too extreme or not, whether he was leaving anyway or not, the way this was handled has been complete shit.

    You guys have completely nullified any justice that may or may not have been had from reigning in VD by your childish, rude and public VD defamation campagin. DU may have been the one directly responsible, but Calis/Shagnak are just as guilty by not speaking out against his actions.

    I see a lot of backpedalling by DU now that things have calmed down. Trying to caulk up the giant holes you made in your inflamatory speeches these past few days by throwing out choice complements about VD's "not good, but brilliant" newsposting just sounds like empty (and late) diplomacy. Whether you mean it or not, if you had any respect for the guy whatsoever you wouldn't have been throwing shit at him in every post you've made the past four days.

    And if you can't see the jabs you make at VD in your rules you're fucking blind. They all follow the pattern: "We will do A, not B"

    Where A= some guideline and B= shit we've accused VD of doing. "A" would have been fucking sufficient.

    Christ, I didn't want to get into this, but I needed to at least say something.

    To clarify, I don't doubt you guys have good intentions, but it's going to take some time before I have any confidence in your leadership and administrative abilities.
     
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  8. Calis Pensionado

    Calis
    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2002
    Messages:
    1,834
    Did that by e-mail before the forums were even back up (though he probably read it after that, when shit was getting well out of hand). Got a "leave it like that for now, no worries" but in retrospect, I should've been worried. Now shit's way out of hand and any and all attempts to fix have exploded on touch.
     
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  9. pkt-zer0 Scholar

    pkt-zer0
    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    Messages:
    594
    It seems to me that you're making the mistake of equating 'the Codex community' to the 'couple of people with virtually no visible contributions', here.

    At any rate, I'd say that losing an excellent newsposter over such matters isn't really worth it. I especially liked VD's interviews.
    No, I don't think his moderating practices were completely flawless, but everyone makes mistakes, hopefully learns from them - a public stoning/counter-stoning didn't exactly help things, I'd say.



    But I'm just some random newbie, so there's surely a boatload of info I'm not privy to or am missing the finer points of the issue. Anyway, that was my 2 cents, and the full extent of my contributions to the recent e-drama.
     
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  10. roshan Arcane

    roshan
    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2004
    Messages:
    2,313
    It is correct to say that "America invaded Iraq" even though most Americans havent had anything to do with the invasion directly. Similarly, in this situation, it is also correct to say that "the Codex kicked out Vault Dweller".
     
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  11. callehe Liturgist

    callehe
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2004
    Messages:
    459
    Location:
    Gothic Castle
    Oh, come on. So now it's a matter of presitige? That's a weak excuse.

    Only DU was "flinging mud" at you. Everyone else, even those you threatened to ban supports you coming back as chief editor. And you weren't even kicked out by DU; Calis took away your power to give some time to take a breather.

    If you trully believe you did the right thing, you wouldn't have thought of DU's exposé as humiliating. It's not humiliation when the majority of Codexers support you and argue against DU's handling of the matter.

    I, for one, like the new forums as they are now, but I really liked your brilliant writings, as even DU acknoledges, and hope that you can come back.

    [chinese salesman]Be a maan, do le light fing[/chinese]
    Come back and enjoy the codex for what it is. Remember without the lulz, we wouldn't have had multiheaded dicks.
     
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  12. Amasius Augur

    Amasius
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2006
    Messages:
    959
    Location:
    Thanatos
    I think it's time for some good old-fashioned peacekeeping. *Puts on a blue helmet*

    Here's my oversimplified and over generalized analysis of the situation:

    - DU, Calis, Shagnac and Baby Arm see themselves as The Old Guard while VD is in their eyes only a newcomer and when he started to act against the unwritten but established agreement (no banning of people without consensus in the staff) they thought that it would be better for the Codex to stop him even if this might imply that he quit contributing his valued content.

    - VD on the other hand saw himself as the only active and regularly contributing admin left and he wanted some changes for what he thought would be the best for the site.

    It's important that everybody acted with best intentions for the Codex although they all made some awkward mistakes. Nobody started this for the lulz or because he is a drama whore. (So DU's comparision with the events that led to Rex' departure at on point of the discussion is unjustified) That's a good starting basis for a compromise.

    It seems that there are two open issues:

    1.) should it be possible for an admin to ban people (and make comparable important decisions) on his own without prior getting the consent from the rest of the staff and
    2.) should VD get the full administrator rights back.

    The first question is easily answered with no and the second likewise easy with yes. Why shouldn't he? I'm sure he got the message and everything else wouldn't be acceptable (at least in my eyes). Nothing of what VD did was irreversible so there was no reason to take such drastic measures in the first place. I would recommend VD to be a bit more reluctant in moderating the forums (no in discussing anything only in the moderation) and the others to be a bit more active but in my humble opinion it can only work if all admins have equal rights. In future it shouldn't happen again that there are taken actions against one admin without consultation of the whole staff and the chance for him to justify his actions so that shit like this won't happen again.

    It's quite possible that VD isn't willing to come back but hey - the Codex is a harsh mistress. Everybody gets a beating from time to time but we all love her, right? It would be the best for the Codex, so he should swallow his <s>pride</s> disappointment for the greater good. Everybody involved should say sorry and then it's time for hugs and kisses and the whole Codex will shout:

    [​IMG]
     
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  13. FrancoTAU Cipher

    FrancoTAU
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2005
    Messages:
    2,507
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    The only posters deserving the tag of "Dumb Fuck" from now on is anyone willing to take a staff position. These written rules are just the same vague rules that we all knew were there to begin with. But you did make sure you were real clear about posting NSFW pics!

    NSFW pics > Quality Content

    Why the hell do admins who don't read or post in the forum even have a say what happens in the forum? I wasn't even in favor of VD banning people, but this whole thing was probably the worst way going about things.
     
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  14. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

    Vault Dweller
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Messages:
    27,805
    Vault Dweller, joined 06 Jan 2003
    Shagnak, joined 06 Sep 2003
    Baby Arm, joined: 30 Jun 2005
     
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  15. Amasius Augur

    Amasius
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2006
    Messages:
    959
    Location:
    Thanatos
    Damn nitpicking. So when did they join TCancer? :P
     
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  16. Lurkar Scholar

    Lurkar
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Messages:
    791
    I thought the complaint about VD was that, too often, he'd make polls or talk to the forums about people who were banned or if they should be unbanned?

    You know, for the group that got their panties in a twist for VD's "inconsistancy," you guys aren't too good about it yourselves.
     
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  17. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

    Vault Dweller
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Messages:
    27,805
    Mad? Do you see me complaining? I'm disappointed ONLY with how DU & Co handled things, but not with their decision to do things differently and trade me for the preservation of what they thought was important. Let's respect their choice and stop that poll nonsense.
     
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  18. Volourn Pretty Princess Pretty Princess

    Volourn
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2003
    Messages:
    22,330
    "Why the hell do admins who don't read or post in the forum even have a say what happens in the forum?"

    Because it's their site. Duh. They can do what the hell they want with it. SP had a darn quote for it. R00fles!
     
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  19. FrancoTAU Cipher

    FrancoTAU
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2005
    Messages:
    2,507
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    AFIAK, Tal pays the bills? Rex did some programming and he was dropped

    I wasn't advocating that DU or Calis should leave, just that i'm not sure why they care about a board that they don't care enough about to read or post in.
     
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  20. Keender_surprise Scholar

    Keender_surprise
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2006
    Messages:
    172
    I did not suggest your position as being that opinions should be censored. What I said was that kowtowing to the perceptions of outsiders as to the image of the Codex over a few NSFW images or stupid jokes was in my opinion not what the Codex was about, particularly when you take into account the fact that many of the finest posters (and even admins) from the so-called 'golden age' would partake in the kind of shock porn posting 'lulz' behaviour that you are so keen to get rid of. The credibility of the Codex, as you put it, likely has more to do with its critical stance, and from what I can see that stance has not changed.

    I can agree with this sentiment, what I can't agree with is the manner in which VD went about achieving this new Codex. If he found Spacemoose's joke tasteless or worthless he could have attacked Spacemoose personally as a poster and tried to rally support from other posters (many of whom were clearly willing to support him). He didn't do that. Instead, he threatened Spacemoose in his official capacity as an admin, over a matter of personal opinion and taste. If that did not breach some fundamental unwritten rule of the Codex, I don't know what does.
     
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  21. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

    Vault Dweller
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Messages:
    27,805
    No. Disagreeing with someone about politics and game preferences is a matter of personal opinion and taste. Cracking jokes about kids killed by some imbecile is not a matter of personal opinion and taste, it's a matter of one's stupidity and infantility. Same goes for every retard who posted "why do you expect me to care about some kids I don't know?"
     
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  22. roshan Arcane

    roshan
    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2004
    Messages:
    2,313
    While I agree that cracking jokes about it is infantile and stupid, I am not so sure of your statement after that. What exactly makes these people retards - not caring, or posting that they do not care?
     
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  23. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

    Vault Dweller
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Messages:
    27,805
    A bit of both, but mostly the latter.

    Maybe it's the new cool thing and I'm getting too old to run a site for desensitized kids.
     
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  24. vrok Liturgist

    vrok
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    738
    Apparently, their opinions, although valid and even accurate, aren't worth hearing/ignoring when you have this fancy CNN style group-hate thread going on. The thread was retarded in the first place, since it provided no basis for valid discussion. It should have been retardoed if opposition was that unbearable. You're only allowed to not care if you don't mention it! Like every other fucker that exists today! And not just that but every Devil's advocate should be burned at the stake!

    I'll admit to being desensitized myself, being a veteran visitor of rotten and stileproject at the age of 16 some 10 years ago. I don't think of it as a bad thing though, I think of it as ultimate (achievable) objectivity.
     
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  25. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

    Vault Dweller
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    Jan 7, 2003
    Messages:
    27,805
    Not caring about dead kids has nothing to do with objectivity. If that's how you explain it to yourself, that's a different thing.
     
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