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Editting Thread 1 - New Reviews

Discussion in 'The cRPG Player's Handbook' started by felipepepe, May 27, 2014.

  1. felipepepe Prestigious Gentleman Codex's Heretic Patron

    felipepepe
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    I completly disagree and think you're mistaking "RPG genre" for "RPGs you like". For the genre and industry, ME was the game that showed how RPGs can become extremely popular if you streamline the gameplay in favour of the roleplaying. In a book about RPGs and their history, Mass Effect is one of the most important titles, reason why I decided to write the ME1 review myself.

    It may not be the path you would like RPGs to follow, but calling it a dead end is a bit too much... I doubt we would have Alpha Protocol or even Desu Ex: HR without ME, for example.
     
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  2. HiddenX The Elder Spy Patron

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    Diablo was popular with streamlining, too. Did Diablo something good to the CRPG genre on the long run? -> no IMHO.

    Diablo and Mass Effect show that some companies think to make something more accessible to the masses they have to to give up some of the more challenging/interesting elements. The hot spicy elements of the CRPG soup are removed to make it eatable for casual gamers. That's a pity in my opinion as an oldschool roleplaying gamer.
    The Gothics are the perfect counterexample. Accessible + challenging + choices with consequences is possible.
     
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  3. felipepepe Prestigious Gentleman Codex's Heretic Patron

    felipepepe
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    I see no reason why we can't have Diablo, Mass Effect AND "old-school RPGs" living happily side-by-side. If anything, the fact that recently we had games as different as Grimrock, Paper Sorcerer, Wasteland 2, Diablo 3, Pillars of Eternity and Mass Effect 3 shows that. Sure, some will definitely sell million more than the other, but they are not excludent. Is not like if Mass Effect had never been done we would be playing a infinity engine Baldur's Gate 4 today.

    They are just different paths on the same genre. And I'm pretty sure that the 80's RPG Codex would cry about how Ultima IV is a storyfag game and that Dungeon Master is Wizardry for NES kids with ADD...
     
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  4. norolim Cipher

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    I kind of agree with HiddenX, though I would word it in a different way. I'm extremely busy at work atm, so I'll try to expand on that later.
     
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  5. felipepepe Prestigious Gentleman Codex's Heretic Patron

    felipepepe
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    Let's take another example, this Diablo II review I just recieved:

    Show Spoiler
    Back in my youth, I’d recieved a CD from a gamer’s periodical, ‘PC Gamer‘. Containing a myriad of game demos, one of those happened to be Diablo. Thrown into a world of dark fantasy, I was immediately enraptured by it’s atmosphere and its addictive looting system. The pilgrimage into the town of Tristram had become love at first fright, and I was hardly the only one. Diablo sold millions, with the game’s popularity spawning countless clones trying to mimic the formula. And in the summer of 2000, the sequel arrived. Welcome to Diablo II.
    After witnessing The demonic Soulstone being wedged into the hero of the first Diablo, our dark wanderer fights to control the darkness within…and is losing. Wrestling with nothing short of the devil himself, his journey heads east. Always to the east. It would’ve been easy enough for the studios of Blizzard to make “just another Diablo”; repeating the formula and throwing in a few new enemies. Instead, they chose something different. Something ambitious.

    The main quest of Diablo II is a global matter, as your champion follows the trail of destruction left by our troubled stranger. New and awe-inspiring characters will make their debuts through thrilling and visually-impressive cinematics; something Blizzard is still very well-known for. It’s a well-written story that aims far higher than the original, which essentially boiled down to “Satan’s in the basement, go whack him a few times”. While not nearly as complicated if juxtaposed with the Planescapes and the Fallouts of the RPG world, it still comes to mind as one of the more memorable ones.

    Split into multiple acts, your travels will be far more than a level-to-level affair. The four diverse locales you’ll explore are open-world, and come with a handful of quests outside of quelling the threat ahead. Diablo has always employed a very simple core formula for combat, and its sequel isn’t drastically far off. There’s no need for a roll of the die or fancy mathematics to muddy the action; Left-Click to attack, Right-Click for magic. The major difference between the two games, however, is that the sequel strives to build more in-depth roleplaying systems through skill trees and the characters’ abilities. Instead of having to frantically search for books to find your wall of fire spell, new movesets become available while leveling up and are yours to choose. And with 3 different skill trees for each class, the divergences of your character are numerous.

    Straying away from a repeat of the classic Warrior/Rogue/Mage trifecta of the original, you’ll be given more exotic options like the Necromancer and the Amazon. Not just a new name on the label, the gameplay options can vary wildly between classes with abilities like the Paladin’s Aura System, or the Necromancer’s ever-so-elegant corpse explosion. To top it off, Diablo II came with a robust multiplayer system using Battle.net. The game was designed specifically with online in mind, both co-operative and otherwise; It’s a treat for those looking to get their dungeoning on. PvE Partying, PvP dueling, and a ladder system added a greater replay value to the original campaign.

    The music is sublime. Composer Matt Uelmen makes his return after the previous title, and manages to retain the brooding vibe of the original. As the game goes on, however, the instrumentals take on a more international and experimental sound than fans may be used to, due to the notable change in location. The mystery and mystique in these new settings are still very present, a testament to the talent going into the aural department of Diablo II.

    The graphical side is at the top of its game. While still working off its isometric 2D engine, the art style and the animation quality was exactly what it needed to be. The randomly generated worlds of Diablo II felt like a living, breathing, haunting experience. The original did as well, but not quite to the same degree. The worlds were more detailed, less confined, and encouraged exploration a bit more than its predecessor.

    The Lord of Destruction expansion pack arrived a year later, building off a significant story arc and adding a fifth act to the game, as well as two new classes: the Druid and the Assassin.

    Diablo II is a beautiful thing. It captures the essence of what made the original such a success, while venturing far from a dreaded case of “sequelitis“. The story will grab you, the enemies will haunt you, and the sheer variety of options will pull you back in. The new characters, the fan-made mods, the expansion pack, and the multiplayer components are more than enough reason to travel once again through the shady sands of Lut Gholein, or the dire docks of Kurast. Diablo II is a must for dungeon crawlers who hunger for dark atmosphere and an entertaining action-based roleplaying experience.

    The reviewer doesn't point out any flaws, and says this:

    I'm perfectly fine with this, but I think some of you would rather rephrase it as: "Diablo II discards all the complexity and tactical challenge of RPGs and dumbs it down to just two buttons.", right? At least that's to me the equivalent of what you're asking in ME2...
     
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  6. Jagged Appliance Arbiter

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    I'm perfectly fine with that too Felipe. If the reviewer has the facts right then there's no problem. We all have our biases so we shouldn't try to insert our own in place of the reviewers'.
     
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  7. HiddenX The Elder Spy Patron

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    I finished Diablo 1 in just one day and was so overpowered for the final boss that he lasted only a few seconds.
    I stopped playing Diablo 2 after 6 hours because of sheer boredom.
    Because of this I never bought Diablo 3.

    So I will not comment on these 3 games or their reviews. It would be devastating.

    As a CRPG analyst I would just say:
    Diablo is a simplified Rogue Like with way too much unrealistic looting.

    PS:
    Another view on ME2.
     
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  8. norolim Cipher

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    Ehm... from what I noticed this Diablo review needs a lot of attention from the editors. It has numerous stylistic, grammar and other problems.

    As far as the problem of ME2 is concerned, I'm not saying that the reviewers should bash some games for not being hardcore enough. If, however, you want this handbook to be a compendium for the fans of classical RPGs, I think it is obligatory to mention how a given modern RPG deviates from what is generally believed to be standard classical RPG. It should be done in a neutral, informative way. Sort of like I did with Silver.
     
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  9. Ninjerk Arcane

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    For my part, I don't agree at all, but I wouldn't approach ME2 the way HiddenX did either in this case.
     
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  10. MicoSelva Prestigious Gentleman Don't call Abigail Patron

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    Codex 2012 Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Divinity: Original Sin 2 Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    I for one did not go out of my way to point out any flaws in my reviews (character limit was harsh enough without trying to squeeze those in), although I did mention that The Witcher 2 is a bit simplified and/or streamlined compared to the first game, and listed the most significant differences, because I believe that people who played the first game would want to know about those. I know people who are in love with The Witcher 1 (I don't really get this) and absolutely hate TW2 (I don't get this either), so yeah, these differences are quite important.
     
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  11. J_C One Bit Studio Patron Developer

    J_C
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    felipepepe Don't you want to move my Alpha Brotocol review to the proof-reading thread? Darth Roxor and HiddenX said that it is OK content wise, but it needs editing. I would gladly correct it if the grammar-gestapo in the proof-reading thread tells me the mistakes.
     
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  12. felipepepe Prestigious Gentleman Codex's Heretic Patron

    felipepepe
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    I need to rethink how this editing thing is going to work... the reviews are coming in fast, and I'm not managing to edit them, debate with the authors, assemble the layout AND post them here... really my fault for letting them pile up, but I was overwhelmed by this and my day job. :|
     
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  13. Darth Roxor Prestigious Gentleman Wielder of the Huegpenis

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  14. Grunker RPG Codex Ghost Patron

    Grunker
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    Bro, I told you :troll:

    Step 1: Make a new Google spreadsheet, but for editing.

    Step 2: Make a thread where you can sign up as Trusted Editor (tm)?

    Step 3: Trusted Editors (tm) ask to be assigned to edit reviews the way people right now ask to be assigned to write reviews. If the Trusted Editors (tm) want to discuss content, they can PM the author and discuss shit.

    Step 4: ???

    Step 5: Profit!

    "All" you have to do is format the reviews then and maybe discuss quote-unquote "final versions" that you get from the editors. I can put my Chtulhu and M&M7 reviews on hold and start eidting right now basically if we get such a document :)
     
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  15. J_C One Bit Studio Patron Developer

    J_C
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    That's a relief. I almost thought that the project is on a halt, because I haven't seen the reviews in the review thread. I'm so excited for this project. :D I want the e-book nao. Maybe you could assemble a team which helps you.
     
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