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From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM - coming January 21st

Discussion in 'jRPG Weeaboo Discussion' started by HoboForEternity, Mar 29, 2019.

  1. Jaedar Arcane Patron

    Jaedar
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    Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    After you know mimics exist, you'll eye every chest with suspicion. It keeps you on your toes. Traps are good, unpredictable traps that can still be spotted by the careful player are better.
     
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  2. Egosphere Magister

    Egosphere
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    I just whack each chest before opening it
     
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  3. Zed Duke of Banville Zo Kath Ra Patron

    Zed Duke of Banville
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    [​IMG]
     
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  4. NJClaw OoOoOoOoOoh Patron

    NJClaw
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    I'm Ridin' with Biden I'm Ridin' with Biden
    > it's a one off gotcha moment to waste time

    > it remains forever as a cherished memory in everyone's gaming history

    They can't both be true, and the second one definitely is.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
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  5. Shinji Learned

    Shinji
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    Agreed. There are rules and there are exceptions.

    A bonfire is the equivalent of a checkpoint, and it's a safe guarantee that the player's position and progress will be saved.
    Because of that, people might come to the conclusion that it's the best way to surprise the player, since it's in the safest moments that people usually let their guard down.

    A chest is just a container for an item. It's contents are revealed only when the player opens it, so whenever the player sees a chest in most games, he reads "reward", and his immediate reaction is to open it without thinking too much about it.
    Adding a trap to the chest breaks this rule in his mind, adding the possibility of not only reward, but punishment as well.

    Some people might say it makes the game more challenging, because experienced players will be more careful and will learn the hard way.
    While true, not everything needs to be challenging. An experienced game designer will put a lot of thought into what should be challenging and what shouldn't be, because a simple change can make or break the game.

    When a chest has the possibility of containing a trap, this simple fact adds stress and tension to the interaction. Now the player needs double the amount of effort to ensure that it's safe to interact with the chest.
    With a bonfire, it's the opposite experience that's intended, as it's the only safe haven for the player. The designers wanted to enforce this rule that there's no tension and stress associated with interacting with a bonfire.

    In other words, simple things should be kept simple. Adding more layers of complexity to an interaction doesn't always equate to a better game experience.
     
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  6. sorinmask Just like Yves, I chase tales. Patron

    sorinmask
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    Bro, all you gotta do is check the chain. What are you talking about? Even a 7 year-old can figure that one out. Oh no... so much tenshioun... >.>
     
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  7. Jaedar Arcane Patron

    Jaedar
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    Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    I know of the chain yes. But It's probably not something you notice on your first or second mimic. I don't remember how it was in DS2, but iirc in DS3 you have to wait around and look closely to see if the chest is breathing.
     
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  8. Nathir Savant

    Nathir
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    Pure autism, and the reason why we can't have good games anymore. I can't believe you just "analyzed" the mimic with words like "rules, challenge, interactivity, reward/punishment, tension, simplicity".

    Here's the thing. The mimic exists because they thought up an enemy like that, and thought it would be cool to include it. Which it is. It just adds to the immersion and the world.
     
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  9. DJOGamer PT Arcane

    DJOGamer PT
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    It not a significant enough difference that people will notice in their 1st playtrough without consulting the wiki

    Honestly I think the best way was if did the mimics placement in more "obvious" locations
    That is, mimics should've all been placed in a way that made the player go like "wait a minute something not right, this is just too easy and too good to be true"
    While real chests should've been all placed in hard to reach places and secret spots
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
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  10. Jedi Master Radek Arcane

    Jedi Master Radek
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    Why not just stand behind the chest and give it a slash? Works well.
     
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  11. DJOGamer PT Arcane

    DJOGamer PT
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    Because there are no mimics prior to Sen's Fortress, and the game never hints at the possibility of "trap" chests
    So it's pretty much impossible for any 1st time player, that hasn't checked a wiki/playtrough or learned through a friend, to avoid one of the four mimics encounters in the whole game
     
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  12. Jedi Master Radek Arcane

    Jedi Master Radek
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    I was assuming we were discussing this from perspective of not the first time player.
     
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  13. DJOGamer PT Arcane

    DJOGamer PT
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    Oh...
    My bad.

    EDIT: it's still a gatcha enemy
     
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  14. Egosphere Magister

    Egosphere
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    Not mine

    Btw, whilst on the topic of bonfires, they already had something like that in ds2 - the non lethal explosions in Aldia encounters. Decent jumpscare in your first playthrough.
     
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  15. Verylittlefishes Sacro Bosco Patron

    Verylittlefishes
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    In fact all you need to do is play official not torrented version of game and read warning messages by your fellow players.
     
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  16. Assisted Living Godzilla Cipher

    Assisted Living Godzilla
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    That doesn't even say the game will not be open world. It just says it'll been very similar to Dark Souls. For all we know that means the combat is more Dark Souls that it is there last two games.

    Although I'd expect the open world in this to be more their take of something like Ocarina of Time from what they've said, than to be like most modern open world games. The way Ocarine of Time is built, with the big field in the middle that goes off in different directions of dungeons could basically feel like a giant version of what they were already doing with Dark Souls. So I guess it could basically be Dark Souls that's so big you also need a horse to get around.
     
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  17. cvv Arcane Patron

    cvv
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    It's gonna be a Darksiders 2 type open world, calling it now.
     
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  18. Verylittlefishes Sacro Bosco Patron

    Verylittlefishes
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    Please no horses
    All games with horses are awkward: kc:d,witcher3, rdr2
     
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  19. NJClaw OoOoOoOoOoh Patron

    NJClaw
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    I'm Ridin' with Biden I'm Ridin' with Biden
    Imagine being so privileged and innocent that hearing "games with horses" doesn't fill your head with images of Star Stable Online.
     
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  20. Verylittlefishes Sacro Bosco Patron

    Verylittlefishes
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    Thanks to the person that bailed me out from Kalinhell!
     
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  21. vortex Fabulous Optimist

    vortex
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  22. Deflowerer Arcane

    Deflowerer
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    That's basically 3D Zelda.

    But I wouldn't mind.
     
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  23. Egosphere Magister

    Egosphere
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  24. wahrk Learned

    wahrk
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    Bonfire mimic sounds hilarious to me. Possibly rage-inducing too, but funny after the fact.

    I don’t see an issue with “gotcha” moments as long as they aren’t absurdly punishing. Trial by error and learning from your deaths is part of Dark Souls. People inevitably get used to the normal tricks, so if they want to keep making these games they’ll have to find new ways to push players out of their comfort zone.
     
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  25. Shinji Learned

    Shinji
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    Ironically it's the other way around.
    The reason why "we don't have good games anymore" is *exactly* because designers just copy whatever is popular and make changes with little to no thought about the consequences of making those changes.

    It's like what happened with the Thief franchise, or the Fallout franchise. Making changes because it "sounds cool" on paper.

    There's a reason why Nintendo is one of the few companies that has managed to mantain a certain level of consistency to their franchises. Because their main staff is mostly the same from decades ago, and they have people that overanalyze even the tiniest of changes to a game formula.
     
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